Experience with unfriendly players?

[Z-Force III]

Sharing an experience from yesterday. I was asked to give a coaching hour for a club who wants to start playing at the lowest league and also want to have a juniors team. I made the mistake to offer the hour for a tube of shuttles which I used in this session. I had to charge money as well. I was 15 minutes earlier inside the hall nobody there. The first players attended. First 4 players wanted to play a match. A junior came in, nobody else was there. I started to do a 1 on 1 session with the junior and noticed immediately the wrong grip and not turning the body. I came to him and as I came over he started to roll with his eyes. I showed him the V-grip, rotation of the body and scissor jump. He said that he can play at his best with the panhandle grip. I explained the cons of it and the pros of the V-grip and noticed his "shut up" in his face.

Two others joined and after we did a short warm up which was for them an unnecessary thing, I explained the exercises, the key points and demonstrated the right technique. I could feel even more that nobody was interested to learn anything. "We are no pros" was the arguement which I heard a few times regarding rules of legal serves, technique and tactics.

Since I was there and the hour was over, I decided to play after this frustration to get ordered for people who don't wanna learn anything. I joined a game. First question of my partner "Do we play right-left or do you want to stay in the front." One of these persons who skipped training. I tried to explain that the formation depends on the game situation in short. I noticed a nodding with the eyes telling me shut up and let's start. When I was done I heard following comment "We are hobby, but this is something awkward that I never heard". We started the game. Opponent started to make a forehand serve on me in midcourt and came frankly forward into the spot where I hit it down. Shuttle got on the chest. "Can you make a different stroke please. The court is big enough." I took myself back, got everytime the Boris Becker Backhand of my partner in my forehand side. And started to mess around and than it happend a clash. Clearly my fault to use a good racket for such a match, but clearly my shuttle in this situation. I explained why to prevent any clashing, changed the racket and got as answer "Don't take this too serious we are here for fun. It's just a racket"

Then the guy who ordered me attended and asked how it went. I explained that I got the feeling that nobody want to learn anything. He was really surprised, because many people asked for training to get prepared for the season. As I asked who will play, he answered all and pointed to the people who skipped training and the "hobbyplayers" who can't even clear. He felt sorry and invited me to play a game with him together. He asked two players sitting on the bench who refused to play vs. me because of wanting to win one more game in this session to make it perfect of no lost set. I realized that it was time to go home and come never ever again. Reality will knock them out in the first league game.

 

[Budi]

Thats indeed frustating.
Human brain is really hard to understand, sometimes there will always thinking that for us is out of logic but for them its logical.

 

[s_mair]

Sharing an experience from yesterday. I was asked to give a coaching hour for a club who wants to start playing at the lowest league and also want to have a juniors team. I made the mistake to offer the hour for a tube of shuttles which I used in this session. I had to charge money as well. I was 15 minutes earlier inside the hall nobody there. The first players attended. First 4 players wanted to play a match. A junior came in, nobody else was there. I started to do a 1 on 1 session with the junior and noticed immediately the wrong grip and not turning the body. I came to him and as I came over he started to roll with his eyes. I showed him the V-grip, rotation of the body and scissor jump. He said that he can play at his best with the panhandle grip. I explained the cons of it and the pros of the V-grip and noticed his "shut up" in his face.

Two others joined and after we did a short warm up which was for them an unnecessary thing, I explained the exercises, the key points and demonstrated the right technique. I could feel even more that nobody was interested to learn anything. "We are no pros" was the arguement which I heard a few times regarding rules of legal serves, technique and tactics.

Since I was there and the hour was over, I decided to play after this frustration to get ordered for people who don't wanna learn anything. I joined a game. First question of my partner "Do we play right-left or do you want to stay in the front." One of these persons who skipped training. I tried to explain that the formation depends on the game situation in short. I noticed a nodding with the eyes telling me shut up and let's start. When I was done I heard following comment "We are hobby, but this is something awkward that I never heard". We started the game. Opponent started to make a forehand serve on me in midcourt and came frankly forward into the spot where I hit it down. Shuttle got on the chest. "Can you make a different stroke please. The court is big enough." I took myself back, got everytime the Boris Becker Backhand of my partner in my forehand side. And started to mess around and than it happend a clash. Clearly my fault to use a good racket for such a match, but clearly my shuttle in this situation. I explained why to prevent any clashing, changed the racket and got as answer "Don't take this too serious we are here for fun. It's just a racket"

Then the guy who ordered me attended and asked how it went. I explained that I got the feeling that nobody want to learn anything. He was really surprised, because many people asked for training to get prepared for the season. As I asked who will play, he answered all and pointed to the people who skipped training and the "hobbyplayers" who can't even clear. He felt sorry and invited me to play a game with him together. He asked two players sitting on the bench who refused to play vs. me because of wanting to win one more game in this session to make it perfect of no lost set. I realized that it was time to go home and come never ever again. Reality will knock them out in the first league game.

So there is that one guy who is ambitious and who most likely convinced the others to form a club league team. All the others seem to be completely clueless and indifferent about what's going to happen there. As you say - the first league matches will hit them like a sledgehammer. And I bet the "team boss" will face a hard time to get together a full team very soon.

Nothing wrong with a bunch of people forming a club only to knock around some shuttles for fun and not really caring about improving. But playing competitive with that sort of mindset? Good luck.

 

[Z-Force III]

So there is that one guy who is ambitious and who most likely convinced the others to form a club league team. All the others seem to be completely clueless and indifferent about what's going to happen there. As you say - the first league matches will hit them like a sledgehammer. And I bet the "team boss" will face a hard time to get together a full team very soon.

Nothing wrong with a bunch of people forming a club only to knock around some shuttles for fun only play not really careling about improving. But playing competitive with that sort of mindset? Good luck.

No, it is not just one guy who wants to play league and put everybody in the team and he isn't the captain. He really didn't forced anybody. I think that they all didn't have a clue what training means and that you can't get a stronger smash and fool any opponent in one hour with a panhandle grip all the way. They also don't know what they face even in the lowest league. I think they play league to have a reason for the beer after it. I noticed that the choice of the jerseys and a clever and funny sentence was more important than serving and returning it.

 

[Heer]

What's your experience with unfriendly players? Here in Germany, most players are very polite and patient with new players. But sometimes, there are players that refuse to play doubles with weaker partners or laugh at weaker opponents. Some players get angry when you tell them their errors when they think they are better players than you. Have you experienced something similiar? How do you react to rude opponents?

 

[Heer]

What's your experience with unfriendly players? Here in Germany, most players are very polite and patient with new players. But sometimes, there are players that refuse to play doubles with weaker partners or laugh at weaker opponents. Some players get angry when you tell them their errors when they think they are better players than you. Have you experienced something similiar? How do you react to rude opponents?

I think you should not focus on what your opponent does before, after or during the match. You should just focus on your game. You can't expect everyone looking at the game in the same way as you. There can be huge behavioral differences in a short geographical area and similar behavioral patterns in different geographical area . Similarly, in a play field where everyone is overburdened by high aspirations and expectations of winning accompanied by their personal behaviour, it is nearly impossible. You also can't change your opponents in a short meeting with him on the court. It can be a possibility that some of your opponents who show unfriendly attitude are not mature and that's why can't digest a defeat from you or gets overexcited after winning. Some players use it as a strategy to divert the attention of the opponent. Attitude of the opponent also plays a big role in it.
Moreover, in certain cases, you will find your opponents to be unfriendly, haughty etcetera but it stands far from reality. When I was an early teenager of about 12 or 13, our summer vacations were on and I was in my village where I played a tournament . I was told that there won't be much competition for me if I play against opponents of my age group. But when I played my first match, I saw my opponent about 5 - 6 years elder than me. But after the match, the scorecard indicated that I defeated him with a huge and clear scoreline of 21-11 21-3. This made me excited because I had not defeated anyone 5-6 years elder than me, let alone the scoreline of 21-3. As a kid, I saw my victory to be the best victory so far. I just forgot that though he was bigger than me in age, size and strength, his level was far below. I was not unfriendly or rude to him but I was just happy from my performance. He was also looking aggressive when he was losing points against me and had even thrown his racquet. At that time, I thought that he can't digest his defeat from a kid who was not even reaching to his shoulders and was there with a intention of throwing away a kid so when I defeated him, I thought that I broke his overconfidence and termed him to be unfriendly and arrogant. On the other hand, some people ( perhaps he as well) had also termed me of being unfriendly as I got overexcited after defeating an easy opponent. But in reality, neither he nor I was actually culprit. I defeated several players of his age group by a much better scoreline of 21-4 21-2 etc. but not everyone reacted like that. They even appreciated me even in final match. Perhaps they had understood that though I was much better than them in the play field but still is a kid who got overexcited after defeating players of higher age group and very smaller than some of them in terms of maturity.
Now whenever I play I just don't concentrate on what my opponent is doing. I just focus on my game play and his mistakes whether the match is tight or lopsided. In lopsided ones like above, I still don't give any freebies and becomes happy if my performance is good but don't show it ( emotions ) like that but in tight matches, sometimes it can't be avoided. A good handshake and performance appraisals by both to each other can reduce the misunderstanding between the two.

 

[Z-Force III]

@Heer As I said before (you posted this story a few times here on BC) it has nothing to do with unfriendly players. The guy was a bit angry about himself and his performance. Who really enjoy to loose? No one. He just couldn't control his anger. Nothing uncommon for juniors and I don't see any unfriendly behavior. Have you ever thought that he got bullied everytime he lost? Nothing uncommon and junior age that the behavior and interacting with others is rude and hurtful. I don't see any single point of beeing unfriedly, but you really enjoy posting this story, must be "the triumph" in your career.

IMO unfriendly things mustn't come from an opponent. I mean you are at a tournament so the atmosphere can often a bit icey. Unfriendly behavior is often something which happen when the social component is much more important. Like during club nights, training, social play etc. And it must not be only your opponent, it could also be people who are partnered with you, who you train, people you get partnered for drills in a training session etc.

 

[Heer]

O

@Heer As I said before (you posted this story a few times here on BC) it has nothing to do with unfriendly players. The guy was a bit angry about himself and his performance. Who really enjoy to loose? No one. He just couldn't control his anger. Nothing uncommon for juniors and I don't see any unfriendly behavior. Have you ever thought that he got bullied everytime he lost? Nothing uncommon and junior age that the behavior and interacting with others is rude and hurtful. I don't see any single point of beeing unfriedly, but you really enjoy posting this story, must be "the triumph" in your career.

IMO unfriendly things mustn't come from an opponent. I mean you are at a tournament so the atmosphere can often a bit icey. Unfriendly behavior is often something which happen when the social component is much more important. Like during club nights, training, social play etc. And it must not be only your opponent, it could also be people who are partnered with you, who you train, people you get partnered for drills in a training session etc.

Ok. I posted this here because this is all I know of any uncommon behaviour from me and my opponent.

 

[Magwitch]

In the months I've been at my local club there's only been one top player I've seen there who is happy to play games with the weaker players. As a result of this I joined a club an hours drive away, and now play more there than locally. I will only go back to playing more locally once I'm good enough. I checked with the club president and a local player who often goes there, and found that there are certain sessions in which a number of top players are happy to mix with others. There are also a couple of sessions dominated by top players that I've been advised not to go to yet, as I won't get games.

It certainly annoys me that things are this way at my club, and while most of the top players can make it harder for me to get good quickly, they can't stop me. I've decided I won't play in my club's social competition though, as I don't want to play on a team with people who normally wouldn't be willing to play with me and have forced me to waste time and money going elsewhere to improve.

 

[Budi]

Each player have different objective, cant blame them to be picky or blame you. Both of you have the right side based on self perspective.
Some people want to make use their limited time with the best match they want.
Some other just recreational & just look for a sweat.
Some other would love to play with anyone.
Some also love to teach a noob.
Some other just want to win whatever it takes even if you just want to play with beginner & bully them.

Some of those type, i also hate it. But cant do a thing to it as its their life & choice. As a friend we can only give advice & thats it the rest is their call. What can we do is to do what can make us happy (without harming other for sure). Its your right & its your decission.

 

[Magwitch]

I get the perspective of those top local players. They want tough matches, as it is more fun for them. Totally understandable. However, I think this mindset won't always result in them having higher quality matches in the long term. My club now has four practice days. Some players who aren't among the top players play four days a week. In a club with a lot of dedicated players with lesser ability, I have little doubt what's stopping some of these players being in the top tier is having very little experience against top players. I think that if top players played say 1/3 of their matches with the rest of us there would be at least half a dozen more top players in the club. The standard in the club would be raised, and then on quiet nights they wouldn't struggle to find opponents of a high level. The culture in my table tennis club is the opposite. If newbies turn up to practice top players often make a point of helping them out, giving informal coaching and playing with them.

 

[Budi]

Well, we cant change other people mind or hearth. But dont let those thing change your love & happiness toward badminton.

Im actualy start this club as recreational play with friend just for happy stroke exchange. At beginning no one look at us & no one want to play with us (except our club which actually our own friend).
Just this 1 advance player from the next court to us, want to give an eye to us & love to play with us. He teach us from basic technique like how to hold racket, footwalk, & many other thing until we grow alot. After that as we growing, many eye come to us. They who at 1st never want to play with us, start asking us to play with them. Other club that breaking (whatever the reason), their left over player start to join us instead.

Live will find its own way as long we didnt give up. Just do the best what you can do to find your happiness.

 

[SnowWhite]

I'd like to add something which plays in the mind of a relatively better player on club nights.

First of all, everyone is a champion at their own level. I beat players without a sweat who in turn can beat other players without a sweat. At the same time, there are players who don't even give me the chance to get tired on court, and even they get destroyed by higher level players. There is always someone better and there is always someone much much better.

Anyway,

In a club, especially smaller clubs, the number of members is important. All members support the club financially. If a top-clique plays exclusively with each other, then the other players never get the chance and there will be less diverse games. To attract members as well as keep members, badminton has to be fun for everyone. Which means I don't mind to do my part and play some slower games.

However, I do want to get in my higher quality games as well. Due to limited players at the club, sometimes all the players I would like to play with are already on the court. If I go on now, then they finish their game and start a new one before I finish mine. This can become a cycle where they are always on court when I'm off and vice versa. I won't insist on sitting off if someone want to play with me. I don't want to sour the atmosphere at the club and the connection I have with many of the players.

For these games, I will usually slow down, preserve energy and maybe pull out some more technical/riskier shots, have some fun with deception. This means the games are fun for everyone. However, if I want to finish quickly to get a chance to play with the higher level players, then I don't mind going 100% and blowing them away. I don't do this to show off. I don't do this to put my opponent down. I don't do this to prove a point. Sometimes choosing games and how those games are played are simply tactical to achieve something else, such as playing better games later on, or playing as many games as you can in the limited time. These choices aren't made with malicious intent. Players (not necessarily the better ones) simply try to enjoy badminton as much as possible and therefore create as many opportunities for enjoyable games for themselves.

If you want to play with stronger players I would very much encourage it. I also enjoy playing at the limits of my level. Losing a close game to a better player/pair is nearly always more fulfilling than easy wins. However, you have to accept that you might get completely destroyed. You can't expect better players to play at a lower level just to accommodate you. They might play at a lower level regardless for the aforementioned reasons, but you can't expect it.

So if someone much better goes absolutely 100% and destroys you, don't automatically assume it's because they're mean-spirited. They might be, but consider their objectives first. Perhaps if they've gotten in some high quality fast paced games, they will happily play with you and have fun doing it. It can depend on the situation.

 

[ownz.uno]

Each player have different objective, cant blame them to be picky or blame you. Both of you have the right side based on self perspective.
Some people want to make use their limited time with the best match they want.
Some other just recreational & just look for a sweat.
Some other would love to play with anyone.
Some also love to teach a noob.
Some other just want to win whatever it takes even if you just want to play with beginner & bully them.

Some of those type, i also hate it. But cant do a thing to it as its their life & choice. As a friend we can only give advice & thats it the rest is their call. What can we do is to do what can make us happy (without harming other for sure). Its your right & its your decission.

Couldn't agree more.. time is precious and everyone have their own priority.

 

[thyrif]

Mixing levels a bit is a discussion at our club, too. But the levels are so different, it's crazy. The players in the top group can play 1v4 against the middle and still win easily, so I don't really get why they think it is fun. I play with one or two levels around me and that's great fun even if I need to take it a bit easy but don't like to play with people lower than that because it's no fun for anyone. Either I play easy normal and they don't get back anything or I play super nice and my teammate will still hit my racket or something. I make exceptions for a few friends sometimes, but that's about it. There's a limited time to play and we all like to play some fun but reasonable level games. Sure I like to help out and give some tips now and then but we also have training at each level every week to help improve.

I always try to be nice about it, though, and have fun at all times. I don't get people who are nasty to anyone at the club, we don't really let people do that.

 

[amleto]

I've decided I won't play in my club's social competition though, as I don't want to play on a team with people who normally wouldn't be willing to play with me and have forced me to waste time and money going elsewhere to improve.

Wow, this comes across as very entitled. 'Force you to waste time and money'!? It's not other people's responsibility to take on the burdon of helping you to improve. They're paying & playing for their enjoyment, which can be hindered by lopsided matches.

Having said this, there is fault with the club, also. If the club is accepting players with wide range of ability, then all should be happy to play each other. If they're not happy, then they should feel free to leave and find another club.

That's what I did. I joined a relatively high level club and all the matches were pretty decent. A season or two later and there were a whole bunch of less skilled players. It wasn't fun for me anymore so I quit.

 

[Budi]

Another experience...

Last Sunday, my friend bring his friend to join us in the games. Partnered with this new guy, he seems to be like a free style type (idk how to describe it). Proud for his skill, good power tho bad power control, no strategy just pick a card based on what it look cool (cross net, cross smash return, cross clear hit, cross this & that).
Many times i risk myself getting headshot from the opponent. Glad my friend on the other side know to hold himself & not try to kill me.
Try to talk to him, telling why cross shot when straight is empty & dont cross it when its clear there is someone there. He said, if its close to the net it would be fine. OK, so i consider he is trying to practice & im following him. Fine by me being a sand bag for the opponent.

After the games & everyone exhausted, i tell him. Lets have stroke exchange, no games, but stroke practice. You want to improve your drop right. He said, no need, not an important skill. What the......

Next match, sadly i end up with him again.
Im thinking to give him some leasson. Trying to be a meanie here. Few times i makes him move forward & try to give him a bad drop. Funny, my mind tell me to put it higher above the net, but my body still putting it close to the net. I guest my hearth wont approve those act.

Well the day is over without being able to give him a lesson. No hard feeling & im just let it go, but still im curious... How was my friend able to find those antique player & even bring him here. Kick my friend abit tho