My statement is MK/HS hasn't lost to any Chinese pair since July 2007, that's why I listed the scratch pairs. Where did I claim what you claim I claim?? Just checked my post again, in fact, the main reason I mention the 2:1 match is because badMania forgot to mention it.
CY is almost 30. We all know that beyond that age, it's highly unlikely that you can still be a top MD player (look at how quickly Candra/Sigit/Tony faded from the international scene since 2005). So indeed badMania should use "getting old" instead of "older".
That's true. But the point is, CY/FHF is only afraid of MK/HS. Since MK/HS is troubled by various issues in 2009, it's expected that CY/FHF can do well. Of course, they indeed did not only well, but very well.
Nowadays the top pairs are CY/FHF, MK/HS and JJS/LYD. Between them, CY/FHF >= JJS/LYD (the gap is closing quickly); MK/HS > CY/FHF; JJS/LYD > MK/HS. KKK/TBH, unfortunately, did not live up to the expectation. Their current status is in fact similar to CTF/LWW between 2000 and 2007. More specifically, they are able to beat the top pairs, but in most encounters, they lose.
i think everyone has a point and argument for their favorite team. but the topic right now is the STRONGEST MD TEAM CURRENTLY. we can go back in history to look at records but that is not valid for the argument. as we all know that in every sports, the match up in playing style is critical to the end result. but what makes a good team is the ability to adjust, adapt and improve on their weakness. back in 07, CY/FHF was so successful was because of their favorite formation where FU in the back smashing away and CY in the front to finish it off. but not many team has adjusted to this style of play until MK/HS figured out to play flat and fast and bring FU to the front as much as possible and when smashing, attack FU. that's why they were successful at beating them and making them the hardest matchup. of course in any sports teams always practice the way of "monkey see monkey do". when MK/HS exposed this weakness of CY/FHF, all other teams start to play this way. so what did CH do, they started a 3 months intensive training for FU to improve his net/flat plays and defense. result is that they are a much more well-round team and the result shows too. if you go back and look at the stats for the major championships they have won, you'll see that they did not always have more smashes points won but rather they will by defense and making other team to commit errors. also, the stats on which team won more tournaments is not a valid stats. because not all teams plays the same number of tournaments each year. it is the head to head that counts. furthermore, the argument about CY's age is not realivent either as we are talking about the STRONGEST TEAM CURRENTLY, not next year or later. so my conclusion based on this years' results, the way team adapt and won, CY/FHF is the STRONGEST MD TEAM CURRENTLY.
MK/HS beat CY/FHF as early as 2004 or 2005. They have another win in 2006 (China Open final as far as I remember). MK/HS seems superior to Chinese MD because they play at a faster pace than any Chinese MD. Chinese MDs (MS, WS, XD, WD) are always at loss when their opponents' pace is faster. I would not say 2007 is a successful year for CY/FHF. They were beaten 2 times by KKK/TBH (AE, Swiss), 2 times by CTF/LWW (WC, Singapore), 1 time by MK/HS (HK), 1 time by Candra/Tony (MAS?), and didn't get any important title.
the only good point you (ye333) made was that MK/HS was the better MD team in 2007, NOT CURRENTLY. what important championship has they won this year? please understand the title of this thread. the main word for this thread is "CURRENTLY". i am not trying to put your team down, i am just stating the obvious.
I'm interested to see where you rank MB/CM? They're arguably the best duo from Europe right now, but I'm not convinced they're ranked in the Top 4. Close, but not quite.
The problem using H-2-H is...MK/HS beat KKK/TBH....KKK/TBH beat CY/FHF....now is that automatically mean MK/HS >>> CY/FHF?? (believe it or not, some do think like that) Another problem this year is that it's very rare to have all of the top MD pairs participating in the same tournament and faced each other.....
Desirable discussions. thanks. For the two issues raised: 1. If the stats goes like that, we can hardly determine the strongest - simple! 2. The rare match-ups among the top teams, that's because I set the time-span "since 2008". This year we have not much data as you indicated. Enjoy~
I am just stating some facts. I never claimed MK/HS the best MD team CURRENTLY, did I? Furthermore, how do you define "currently"? The past year? The past half-year? The past month? Or "right-now"? With CY "too tired", JJS/LYD disappeared, MK/HS not in best form, I guess the "current" best MD is KKK/TBH, who did best in the past two tournaments. Please understand that in a long thread like this, there are (understandably) many "spin-off"s of the main topic.
I put them at the same level as KKK/TBH. A "challenger", not a "winner". Btw, if I remember correctly, they haven't ever beat CY/FHF.
That's exactly what the stats is turning into. No one in the right mind will use something from almost 2 years ago to depict "currently". I guess we've start with basic english with you, do you understand the meaning of the word currently or not?? CY/FHF, MB/CM has improved quite a bit from last year. Why are you still using the record from the early-mid 2008, knowing full well it's not an accurate depiction of their current strength? Stick with the year to date and you'll see a different picture (one without your favorite korean's not in the top).
Fair enough. Yeah, not only MB/CM hasn't beat CY/FHF, IIRC they also suffers consecutive defeats in the trial pair of FHF/SY.
The stats of percentage of tournaments won so far in 2009 (number won/number participated) has also been given a few pages earlier.
i would like to clear my intention here is not to argue, disrespect or discount any one's favor team or players. as for what constitute "CURRENTLY", just like in any other sport that would be current season or year. and just like any other sport, we can only gauge or determine one's (or a team's) greatness based on major tournaments won because that is the event draws ALL the top players. as far as badminton is concern, what are the majors or the most coveted titles? that would be All England, World Championships, China Maters and maybe the Super Series Masters Final later this year. based on the result this year, the team that wins the most "majors" would be the strongest MD team CURRENTLY for me.
What are the major or most coveted (individual) titles in badminton??.. ..this has been discussed many times before. They are: AE, WC and Olympics...then the SS, GP Gold and GP titles follow. Chinas Masters is just a SS tourney. Super Series Masters Final is actually an invitation only event; it is not BWF sanctioned. So, this yr's major tourneys are the AE & WC.
