LD went away without shaking his hand. If you insist this is not refusing then you assume that LD forgot to wait and to shake hand or he did not know that it is not polite not to shake hand after the match. The latter assumption (he didn't know) is not plausible, the first (he forgot) is possible but i suppose the probability is not high . Even an amateur will keep in mind that it is so important to shake hand. OK LD went first toward LCW but since LCW was laying on the court LD did not give him a second chance before leaving the court? It looked like punishing him "i moved to you but since you laid on the court then it is your own foult". It is all about interpretation of the action. Ofcourse you can not find a proof in such situation because one simply can not read LD's mind. I am in the middle of discussing the meaning of 'refuse' and you blame me of badmouthing LD? It is very very suggestive isn't it? LD is a great player. My impression is he has become more friendly to other players compared to the past. That makes him a great sportman and personallity.
Like I said, 2007 is what I'm comparing to, and yes exactly... he could have another awful year next year. I'm just saying the results show a clear improvement this year, and that hopefully it's a trend that will continue. Runner-up is certainly better than what he was achieving throughout most of 2007. I'm sure we all prefer the Taufik of 2009 to the Taufik of 2007. Personally I'd love to finish runner up in even my local city tournament >_>. Of course, everyone would prefer to win . So hopefully he does eventually (win a Super Series)! Yeah!! That's right! And I'd consider every one of them Super Series level players. Maybe not Hafiz... he's reeeally inconsistent. In fact there you go... compare him to Hafiz maybe you'll appreciate his consistency a bit more then. Where's his Super Series title? Who knows. I think he deserves to have one. To come so close this many times does seem a little unfair. But that's the way things go. I know he's capable. I guess that's a simple way of putting it... maybe I should have just said that >_> . Yes yes, I realise that sounded stupid... .
Ah ... it seems that even if the players themselves have reconciled their differences, it is impossible for certain elements of their fanclubs
BCL won 2 super series which LCW attended -- big deal; TH won OG, which LD attended -- no big deal; TH won WC beating LD in the final -- no big deal. LD won OG beating LCW in the final -- big deal. Basically, Whenever LD beat someone, that player must be in form, LD won because LD is super-strong; Whenever LD lost to someone, LD must be off-form (or wanted to lose, etc etc.), because LD is super-strong.
A winner should be even more gracious in victory, it is ridiculous for him to lay on the floor and when he gets up don't go and shake hands with LD. Even in 06 AG, TH after winning AG would go and shake LD's hand and even LYB, even though he could've fell to his emotions also by winning his 2nd AG.
it is a fact, not an 'assumption', of action when LD is already at the net for shaking hand and LCW wasn't. Funny how the accuser see the incident 180 degree backward. Any independent unbiased person would see that it was lcw who refused to shake LD's hand. If one is truly respectful to his opponent, he should shake his opponent right after the match although it would be a rarity nowaday. In that lcw's case, i dont blame lcw for his drama but don't accuse someone being arrogant wrongly.
Awwh, but it seem u do care lol. No, i'm a fan of sound judgement and fairplay. I like to crush stupidity tho. From the blog, it was TH who's now insisting on how godly LD is.
Taufik Hidayat's thoughts after his match against Lin Dan (2009 French Open Finals) . Taufik Hidayat's thoughts after his match against Lin Dan (2009 French Open Finals) Interesting as usual, our posts/discussions always drift away from the thread's title. To me, Taufik is saying: Watch out Lin Dan, I am going to beat you next time. From Taufik's blog: The best player tonight was Lin Dan, but who knows the next time we'll meet, it will be my turn. That's the way the game of badminton is, one day you're winning, the next day your losing. IMHO, Taufik's thought is not on the past match. He is telling us that he is preparing for his next match against Lin Dan. .
To me, Taufik is kinda egoistic person. And no matter how i read, re-read that post in his blog, i got it the same way you did, Chris. He knows it's hard, an almost impossible mission, but, hey, it's Taufik you're talking about. And i have always respect someone who have that in their character. He gave Lin Dan the credits he deserved. And, it's great. He should. I think, people will respect Lin Dan more when the "being generous" theory is no longer here. We all know win and lose are twins. A true sportsman should have both. now tell me, Rocky Balboa lost too, right?
yes, TH is a tricky player, he plays mind game with LD, on and off court. In 2006, he won't show his card on the dying 2nd set of the Japan open . In 06 AG, he played the same wishy washy way against LD on their 2 early matches. Only in the MS individual event that TH change his game plan. LD thot it's just another walk in the park. It costed TH a JO title and 2 head to head butting against LD for TH to win 1 title. He doesn't do these slimy trick to other players because he knows LD is the only player holding him back. We also know this too, that is why we still relish on LD vs TH duel each time regardless how many time TH has lost to LD. We and LD just don't know what kind of TH would show up on that match duel day. LD learned this coverup game now, that is why he doesn't see TH lightly even if TH do poorly in past tournaments. Who knows what kind of TH show up on match day. That is why LD wanted to take the 1st set decisively at this FO MSF. One can't be too careful with TH. i did not watched the FO MS final (yet) but i read that LD used lots of net shots against TH. U know why? this is because TH is known and famous on net shots. LD want to prove something to TH, that he is not only better than TH but he wanna beat TH in his (TH) own game.
To me, the term "refusal to shake hands" is very clear, if LCW walked to LD and wanted to shake hands with him, but LD didn't do so or ignored him. That's an act of refusal. Period. But this never occured in that match so it's not even an argument here. You just falsely accused someone for something that never happened. If anything, I could even argue LCW was the first one to "refuse" shaking hands because LD clearly took the first step to approach LCW to congrat him, but LCW "ignored" LD at first by laying on the ground or "not paying attention" to him? I'm guessing LCW did that on purpose to embarass LD even further? (lol, see I'm also making assumptions). Of course we all know LCW isn't that type of player. Nor did LD ever intentionally refuse to shake hands with LCW. He walked off the court because the humiliation of the defeat got to him. Not saying what he did was right (yes I do think that LD should've stayed long to give LCW a second chance), but there is a huge difference between "not shaking hands" and "refusal to shake hands". And the latter is a much worse display of unsportsman-like conduct.
Is Taufik finally gonna get a SS title under his belt??.. - Sure, you can compare TH's record in 2007 and now. It shows he's been better at finishing tourneys than before. At the same time, it also shows he's been consistently inconsistent during the 2 yr period. Now, if one wants to truly see how consistent Taufik is and whether he is back, for real, then let's compare his progress from this yr til say 2011, a 2 yr span (if he is still playing). LD and LCW have consistent records from 2007 til now. And that's what i'm basing where they stand, playing level wise.(*Of course, with LCW's current injury, who knows where he'll be headed in the future). If one enjoys Taufik's Runner-Up finishes or his GP and GP Gold titles, this yr, then more power to him/her. - Again, Taufik has, for some reason or another, only been consistent in this yr's SS. However, he's been awesomely pretty good when playing in GP or GP Gold tourneys (over the last couple of yrs). - I don't know whether Taufik deserves a SS title after "coming so close these many times"..If that's the case, then i'm sure there are a few other players out there who deserve a SS title (or more) after "coming so close these many times" as well.. Btw, guys, for the discussion on LD shaking/not shaking hands with LCW and vice versa and wearing/not wearing the M'sian hat, let's discuss those in their respective threads.
what's the point here? if want to compare different players, we should provide facts, only facts can be cleared out, not people's opinions or comments. someone, experts on resources, like ctj cad, please give us a complete, correct list about all the tournaments LD, LCW, TH have won, and their Head2heads also. Thanks a million for that, coz that's the only way to solve all the questions from this thread. people always have different opinions on which player's greater. When year 2007, both Chen Hong and Lee Lee Hyun-il skipped the all england open, the official BWF(was IBF) claimed the only super star missing was Lee Hyun Il. While Chen Hong was just mentioned in the last sentence of the whole article among the huge list whoelse also missing this tournament. I was asking why, and answered that LYI was the only super star, because he was ranked 1st in the world before, but he was ranked #1 for only 2 weeks, while Chen Hong was World number 1 for more than 2 years accumulatively, and also covered both pre and post LYI 2 weeks. Especially for All England, Chen Hong has won twice! plus entering the finals multiple times. That's the achievement no one can compete except super Lin. While Lee YI has never won All england yet. Well, despite the fact, still huge population, include BWF, regarded Lee YI greater than Chen Hong. Opinion is the reflection of sediments of their culture. It only makes sense to argue about the facts, will be fruitless to change other's opinion. Don't argue who's greater, Lee YI or Chen Hong, Lin Dan or Taufik Hidayat, but just list their titles, and head to head recrods, that'll settle down all the dust. the expert who own the records and resources, please help!
No problemo.. - What's the point? I was merely pointing out my opinion on who i think are in the Super Series level and who are not. But then a few others came in, question and ask why i feel certain players belong in the Super Series level whilst others are not. I explained the reason(s) why i suggest so & I provided facts to back my reason(s). And here we are. - I've provided facts, in relation to TH, to back up my opinions, comments, reasons etc. - I will give links to LD's, LCW's and TH's record and they should be easy enough for you guys to figure out, simply by skimming over. I will not do a H2H record because: 1. I'm not interested in head to head record. I'm only interested in their records playing in SS tourneys. 2. It'll be a bit more time consuming to tally up the h2h records. LCW: http://old.internationalbadminton.org/player_info.asp?playerid=50152 LD: http://old.internationalbadminton.org/player_info.asp?playerid=50906 TH: http://old.internationalbadminton.org/player_info.asp?playerid=10337
It is indeed your definition of refusal. To me refusal is not shaking hand while knowing you should do. You just falsely claimed that it did not happen. Once again it is your assumption that LD did not intentionally (or because the humiliation) refuse to shake hand since you simply can not know the real intention, by definition. Even if one says what is in one's mind you can not prove whether it's true or not. As i said it is impossible to proof whether LD did it intentionally but it seems unlikely to me that a prof forgets (to wait for a second chance) to congratulate the opponent for his victory. It happens very often that the winner of a match, eg. in tennis or badminton, needs a while to release his emotion and is not able to directly shake hand but i always see that the loser just waits sportively until the winner stands up and comes to shake hand, something very evident in sport.
Guys.. ..for those interested in discussing abt LCW not shaking hands with LD, please cruise on over to this thread: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75320&page=16 Thanks.
