Serving problem

i don't get the picture sorry. are you standing at position A? or are they serving to position A? or is your opponent serving from A? in either case, A is the worst place you can stand whilst serving or receiving serve.

 

as long as you can return the serve, it is no problem, there is no best position.
if your opponent did a serve from "A" or "C", then you should stand in the middle of court.

 

Hmm. I think he's trying to say that his partner is the receiver, and he doesn't know where to stand while his partner is receiving the service. And their opponent usually does a flick serve down the rear court service area (point B). Am I right chopp3r?

If this is what you're trying to ask, I think it's up to you ... whichever position you're comfortable to be in. Some national players stay in the middle part of the court while their partner recieves. But this could be distracting for your partner because you're too close. Some I see position themselves in the middle rear part of the court. Others stay on the opposite service court. It's really up to you. Just make sure that you react fast once the shuttle is already in play.

I have a question though. What's point C for?

 

that's right ..... even top world player also out of position when the opponent did a long backhand serve .....
so, you should practice the 2-steps backward and swing the racket over your head (if you are right-handed)

 

ah ... yes, because the shuttle flies over your partner's court, but in the end it will be in your court, ...... I'm not the expert in the rule, but it may be fault serve.

 

no, it's not fault, as long as the shuttle lands in the right side of the court.

 

thanks for clarification, I'm not the expert of the serve rule .....

 

where you stand in doubles to receive is usually more or less fixed. however, it is clear that the opponent is trying to be smart about what he does. and it's your job to tell him he's in fact really stupid. i am also assuming it's coming at you fast and low, almost at face height, maybe a bit above. if it's higher, you really should be able punish him for it. however, there is a solution.

i've redrawn your picture for you. it's not very clear though. forum doesn't allow pics above 175kb. should still be clear enough...anyhow, your partner is standing at E, which is what should be done normally. he doesn't need to move. he just needs to duck. you should stand at D, which is where you'd stand normally anyway, give or take half a foot or so. if you're really having trouble, stand practically on the middle line. stand slightly back so you have more time to take your shot.

now, his partner will most likely stand at either C1 or C2 as i have drawn. his partner will stand at C1 if he doesn't care. or his partner will stand at C2 if this is one of their tactics. i've drawn the arrows in code with the dots. green for replies to C1 position, and red for a C2 postioned opponent reply. green reply is really just a fast drop into the other side of the court. idealy, you play this shot with the racquet in front of you. as you are actively seeking that serve, and you have your racquet up, it should get past you. if you can't play the suggested shot, just try and whack it back into the server's face. if the opponnent's partner is standing at C2, a fast flat clear to where the red arrow points will pretty much devastate them.

this is a really common quick-way-to-win-points-miracle-shot in clubs. and i don't really like it because some people tend to think it's cool until they get cooked doing it. what i've told you are some basic remedies. it's really about putting it in open areas as fast as possible. because he is standing right on the edge, he can't cover the rest of the court like normal players can. if you have your racquet up and ready, you negate his element of surprise. just stick your racquet in front and his serve is no longer that great. if he is continually catching you, move back further until you can effectively counter it. if you get good enough, the best "f*** off" shot is just whack it back into his face. if he doesn't have his racquet up, i will guarantee he won't try it again. at least not on you

 

I tend to stand about 2-3 feet behind the short service line and near the middle line. Most importantly, face the server instead of straight down the court and ready your racket in a position that is high and back (as if preparing for a smash). The partner will stand a little back and away from the middle line.

Next, take note of where the non-serving opponent is like shifty said. Such a service leaves gaping holes in defense and gives no advantage once the opponent knows how to return the serve. You can almost already decide where to return the shot since the server is out of position leaving his partner to fend the whole open court. If the non-serving opponent is standing between c1 and c2, my preference will still be the red line in shifty's diagram since the server will not be able to get that and even if the partner retrieves it, they will both be on the same side of the court.

Now for taking the shot..

If the serve goes low towards B, move left and forward and bend low for the push/drive/drop. A high flick to B is the same as a weak mid-court lift so you know how to take it from there.

If the serve goes low towards C, intercept the shot just after it pass the centre line (usually its highest point). This will be way above the net so a strong drive is on the menu.

Any other points in the service box the shot land should not be a problem at all. The key is to intercept the serve at it's highest point instead of where it lands so preparation to take the serve is already half the battle won.

 

This is an interesting discussion for me, as this situation is rarely covered in coaching (or coach education, at least over here). Shifty has provided a good analysis.

The interesting thing about this serve is that, although it seems very bad and is never seen at a high standard, it can still be hard to deal with. Once you get past a certain standard, you almost never encounter this kind of serving -- and so you don't get much practice against it. Let's analyse the situation a little more:

What are the server's options? Well, he can try low, flick, or drive serves; and he can play them to the middle line or wide.

The main threat is a drive serve to the middle. Unlike normal drive serves, you cannot intercept this one from the net (because you're not allowed to stand in that part of the court). Therefore, no matter how fast and well-trained your reactions are, you must hit the shuttle from farther back (in the midcourt).

Let's say that you normally like to stand right at the front and attack the low serve. If you start in that position now, then the server has a clear path for his drive and you will not be able to reach it. So you must back off somewhat from the service line, and stand more in the midcourt.

I'll return to the drive serve later. For now, we just need to recognise that the server has succeeded in compromising your position somewhat: you are not as near to the net as you would like to be.

Given that you've backed off from the net, he may serve low -- because he hopes that your replies will be less aggressive than usual. But the distance for his low serve to travel is much longer. Let's say he serves to the T; consider the trajectory: it will have to peak after it has crossed the net, and still be travelling upwards -- which makes it really easy to attack, even from your somewhat backwards position (one day I'll check the geometry of this serve, but for now you can just try it yourself and see).

From that position, the only way he can get a tight low serve is by serving wide. So the wide low serve is his other main threat.

What about flick serves? Well, a wide flick serve is ridiculous because it takes too long to reach the corner. A straight flick is okay, but here you should have enough time to get back and attack. And if the flick is very shallow, you can step across the middle line and intercept it early from your somewhat backwards position.

A wide drive serve simply comes straight onto your racket face. So we're left with two serves that pose a real threat: the wide low serve, and the straight drive serve.

For the wide low serve, although you have a long way to travel, so does the shuttle. So you should still be able to reach it quite high. The server's court is completely open here; a simple straight net shot is the obvious reply; if his partner is covering this shot, then you play a straight lift (flick) to the back for an immediate winner.

For the straight drive serve, your instinct may be to hammer it back at the server. But this is not so easy -- it's quite a stretch around-the-head, and the server can often just block your drive/smash back. It would be better to change the angle, but that's really tough from an extreme round-the-head position.

The problem here is that, although you want to play a forehand, the server is hitting to your backhand. Normally you could use either footwork or reactions to prevent this, but it's much more difficult from this position: your backhand is much more exposed.

The solution is quite simple (but untested; I've only analysed this, not field-tested it ). Hit a backhand! Normally this would be a terrible concession, but the key difference here is that your opponents are out of position and will have great difficulty covering their court. By hitting a backhand, you lose the option to hammer it back, because you can't get as much power. But you gain more control over your shot placement, and this is how you will exploit your opponents' dubious positioning.

With the backhand, a shallow lift over the server's head becomes an easier option. And if his partner is covering that corner, then you have the entire other side of the court for a target (a cross-court drop would be especially nice).

This serve scores cheap points mainly because of a psychological error: the receiver tries to punish it too much. He wants to win the rally immediately, when all he needs to do is gain the first attack. A simple lift to the unguarded corner will do that.

If you follow this solution, then it makes sense to switch your legs around so that your right foot is in front -- you're preparing to hit a backhand, whereas the ordinary stance is preparing to hit a forehand (off a flick or drive). Having said that, standing in this way would increase your vulnerability to the wide flick serve; but you could still probably swivel in time.

As I said before, this solution is not field-tested. I haven't had much opportunity to try it out (no-one serves to me like that any more). It's something I ought to experiment with, however.

 

I have actually encountered this situation already. It wasn't really that difficult. It may seem unfamiliar and look peculiar at first, but from where the server's standing, it aint that threatening. In fact, it'll be more of a disadvantage for your opponent as there will be more spaces uncovered by them.

Yes, backhand could work once the server puts the shuttle in point B. However, I haven't tried that because I don't trust myself with backhand yet. What I do instead is an "around the head" shot, which I am good at (I think ). You have to be flexible to do this, and you have to be fast in stepping backward. From there, I usually drop or smash the shuttle to the other corner, away from the server.

But the tricky part here really is analyzing if the shuttle would hit wrong court or not. That kind of service is not without any flaws. It's really not advisable because it'll put more pressure on the server and his partner than the receiver.

 

If it's a drive serve, you hardly have any time to step backwards. Flick serve, yes; drive serve, no.

For a drive serve, you need to hit pretty much immediately.

 

Yes. Maybe you're right. But the server is very far at the corner. The shuttle will slow down before it reaches your court. And if your racket is raised high enough, you can just tap the shuttle towards the opposite side of the server.

Again, I have to emphasize that you should be facing the server and positioned farther from the service line than you're used to.

Besides, even before you worry about receiving the service, the server has to worry first how to place the shuttle appropriately. Like I said, they're in a very vulnerable position. They have more spaces to protect than the traditional position.

 

I must admit that I have not considered the backhand option. Like Gollum said, this is never done at a higher level of play so players who do that usually cannot drive it fast and still keep it in.

For most of my encounters with this serve, I just need to be prepared to do a round the head forehand. That's why I suggest to pull the racket high and back. The serve to the middle line is the most dangerous but the shuttle will be highest just past the short service line. The receiver can almost always slam the shuttle down around that point or earlier. I also recall using the panhandle grip to great effect against such serves but that'll rule out backhand.

 

Okay.. not exactly round the head... it's almost like those front net drive wars when the opponent hits towards backhand but you still take it with a forehand in front of you.