Easy Question - "Stay on your toes"

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by quacky, Nov 5, 2010.

  1. quacky

    quacky Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco CA
    I have been trying to search for threads about "staying on your toes" and the closest one to what I needed was "Footwork and Toes?" But I guess I'm still confused.

    Basically, I played against an intermediate level player in singles recently (I'm a beginner), and he mopped the floor with me. The two things he told me was that my clears barely goes midcourt from base and that I need to "stay on my toes" all the time unless I'm resting. I watched him and he literally does stay on his toes all the time, imagine a zealot from Starcraft or a gazelle in prancing mode.

    However, while it is very effective for him, my mind doesn't seem to think it makes sense to be on your toes all the time. But I am the beginner and was floored by him. So anyone explain to me whether we are supposed to hop using the balls of our feet back and forth or do the heel-to-toe walking motion. From what Gollum posted on that thread I linked, I understand that we need a heel-to-toe rolling action to brace for lunges and toe-to-heel landing action on the recovery from jumps. But what about the rest of the time?

    Thank you for your answers and experience.
     
  2. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    4,642
    Likes Received:
    298
    Location:
    Surrey, UK
    Those robotic leg enhancements are probably helping him a bit. :D


    You're absolutely right to be sceptical. Never assume that stronger players are automatically right about technique. They may be succeeding in spite of a bad technique.

    Generally speaking, you want a sensible compromise between going up on tiptoes (bad) and leaving your heel flat on the ground (also bad). Try just lifting your heel slightly off the floor, and leaning your weight forwards a little.

    You normally would not move with a heel-to-toe rocking motion. It's just too slow. Exceptions include lunges, and sometimes when making running steps. Most of the time, however, you want to be more on the balls of your feet, and not on the heels.
     
    #2 Gollum, Nov 5, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2010
  3. quacky

    quacky Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco CA
    Thanks Golllum for responding on the thread.

    From what you just said, I should spend most of my times on the balls of my feet. Did I understood you correctly? Does it mean I have a floating type action where I'm skimming the surface of the floor or is it more deliberate steps? Right now I do a lot of full contact stepping motion except when I move laterally. The more lateral my movements are the more springy my steps. However, moving forwards and backwards, my left foot is more planted between each step. Do you think you can give a more visual description of "most of the time, however, you want to be on the balls of your feet, and not on the heels". In addition, I am reading your singles footwork patterns right now. While it talks about how to get from one location to another (which is exactly what I need), it doesn't have the details of foot traction and muscle movement that comes with experience. I don't have the experience yet =).
     
  4. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    4,642
    Likes Received:
    298
    Location:
    Surrey, UK
    Yes, that's a good way to think about it. Try to be "light on your feet".


    I think this would work best in a video.
     
  5. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2,049
    Likes Received:
    735
    Occupation:
    Professional
    Location:
    England
    I agree completely with Gollum. From running a lot, you can feel there is a huge difference in ground contact you get between the two methods. If you are trying to slow down, a heel first contact makes things easier (ALL lunges for example), whilst staying on the balls of your feet tends to help push you forwards/in the direction you are going.

    A good test of "lightness on feet" is to listen to your own/someone else's feet as they move. If you don't hear any thumping, they tend to be quite light on their feet - on the balls. The thumping noise tends to come from a heavy heel first contact.

    I will point out at this stage, that being able to only clear midcourt, has put a HUGE amount of pressure on your movement skills, and where you may have the right amount of "on your toes" for a slower pace game, being against a fast opponent when you don't yet have the skills to give yourself plenty of time, is going to give you an "unfair" look at how much you are "on your toes". Your footwork MAY be adequate but unused to the pace of game.

    I will state one further thing, which is that in my opinion the "floating" across the floor tends to come visually and in feel, when the movers upper body and head moves very little during the movement. This means that the mover maintains his posture well, and avoids letting his head bob up and down as he moves. This helps balance issues when moving backwards, and gives the illusion of gliding across the floor, as if the feet are just transporting the body somewhere.

    I hope some of the things I have said are helpful.

    Matt
     
  6. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Messages:
    8,906
    Likes Received:
    10
    Occupation:
    Yes
    Location:
    Arrakis
    Yes. Posture. That also means that your body has to support the correct, efficient movement that you would like to possess. You need to maintain balance and fluidity when on the balls of your feet. Developing a strong core (abs, lower back etc) would go a long way, and hip abduction/adduction and strengthening those muscles and glutes will help. And like the masters on this thread have stressed, it's not your toes, but your balls! :) (of your feet, of course! ... :D)
     
  7. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,403
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Not much to add as you already have 2 of BC's resident coaches answering above.

    Think light on your feet.

    Think of how a boxer or fighter moves.

    Think Muhammad Ali or Bruce Lee.

    Well, don't jump up and down as much as them.
    But just lean forward a little and lift your heel a little.

    What this does is that it preloads your leg muscles so that you can push off in any direction instantly.
     
    #7 visor, Nov 5, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2010
  8. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2,049
    Likes Received:
    735
    Occupation:
    Professional
    Location:
    England
    Excellent point cobalt: the core really does set up everything so perfectly :)

    Visor has followed that up nicely and has given two fantastic examples of athletes whose secrets to their success lay in their phenomenal core strength.
     
  9. quacky

    quacky Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco CA
    Thank you very much Gollum, Mseeley, Cobalt, and Visor. Each of you have been directly helpful in my progress of the game. I'm going to emphasize that points you brought up here:

    1. Posture and Stability: Core, back and leg strength are vital with core providing direction and flow, back same but more support and control, and legs for movement, speed, and foundation.
    2. "Stay on your toes", "Light on your feet" are like skimming across the badminton floor; think of the lateral and attack movements of Muhammad Ali and Bruce Lee. (In my mind their backwards movement were few and not quite the same as in badminton -- I'll have to visualize it more to really know though).

    I hope that captures it. I'm going to explode on the court this week! (At least in my imagination. :))

    Thanks MSeeley for pointing out my clear limitation. I have noticed it as I play. I'm really hampered by my poor clears. While others have told me it's not strength and nearly all technique, I think in my case it's strength. My arm doesn't have the full range of motion so right now I'm missing these four items on the rear-court: clear (most important), smash, backhand clear, and backhand drop. Also, I haven't learn the backhand smash or cross-court net from the list of strokes I have heard of on BC yet.

    (The second day on the court after I got back from badminton, my right arm hurt bad. I have done a lot of exercises to heal it, but while it isn't acute pain anymore there is still some pain and it refuses to reach while in activity. =(. Yes, I am seeing the nurse again this Tuesday.)
     
  10. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Messages:
    8,906
    Likes Received:
    10
    Occupation:
    Yes
    Location:
    Arrakis
    Quacky, you are already well aware that there are many things you can do to improve your performance and experience. Achieving good muscle tone, elasticity and flexibility will go a long way to achieving that. Even some weightless freestyle exercises and stretches at home everyday can make a huge difference in as little as 2 weeks.

    You mentioned arm strength. I'm sure Matt and the others will tell you to remember to use a loose, comfortable grip, and tighten it at the very last moment before contact. Keep your swing comfortable. I have found that tight and well toned pectoral muscles help to achieve clear consistency a lot, as well. Try different grip positions with your racquet. Sometimes a long-handle grip works well for me for clears, other times closer to the cone works well. I guess it all depends on your physical condition, mobility, how your racquet feels at the time...

    http://www.chinese-holistic-health-exercises.com/arm-and-chest-building-exercise.html
     
  11. quacky

    quacky Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco CA
    Arm Strength:

    Thanks for the link Cobalt. I checked out the Chest/Arm/Hand and the self-help products section. I have already started on some of the gentler exercises from the first section and I recognize some of the products on the second section from the stores but have not tried them before.

    I am doing some rotator cuff exercises given to me by the nurse from a 6 weeks ago and some of the therapy ones I found online that seems very nice. I have also asked a friend, who is not train, to do some tests on me I found online (Neer, Jobe, Harkin's, etc) so I will some have knowledge, experience, and rough data to bring to the nurse and possibly a doctor (the community college where I'm taking beginning badminton has a staff nurse and occasionally has a doctor but we can only make appointments with the nurse or medical assistance due to low budgets).

    To be more descriptive of my arm strength problem. When I first started badminton again I begin an exercises program to develop fitness (I went from a person that is too thin and had breathing problems walking up a ram to a not as thin and high stamina kid). At that time I started at 3 push-ups and worked my way up to 45 push-ups. Not amazing for many, but quite amazing for me =). But now, I can't even do one push up. I would collapse when I get to a certain point in the movement. =/. It's a different movement then the reach upwards in badminton but the effect is similar. My arm refuses and so I currently clear with my elbow parallel to my lips and the elbow bent is around 100 degrees instead of near 170 degrees as I used to do it just a few weeks before.
     
    #11 quacky, Nov 5, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2010
  12. quacky

    quacky Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco CA
    Staying on my toes:

    The school had a basketball game so they cut our class play time down and blocked off half of the courts. I only got to play for 20 minutes and warm up for 10 minutes. So the results aren't significant, but I am already improving on my footwork just a bit. I could hear my shoes screech instead of thumbing each time I change directions. We have screechy wood flooring. I am also conscious of my heels hovering off the floor as I move. Now I need to practice this until I do not have to mentally control it and then learn proper footwork, as in when to step and where to step. I'm going to use the badminton bible for that once I get this phase of the movement more naturally. After that I'll incorporate the jumps and landings with this lighter movement. Thank you everyone. Very great advice.
     
  13. lcleing

    lcleing Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    842
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Basically the ''stay on your toes'' heel elevation is pretty much what you would do when doing rope skipping(I am talking a fast skip). You don't want to be flat footed as the rope is gonna whip you if you don't jump fast enough!

    Of course you won't want to run/dance like a ballet dancer, that would give you a 100% in posture and entertainment value but not so much on speed.

    this is why people said rope skipping will help you on footwork as they helped you to stay on your toes and build up your anke strength(and wrist too)! So evelate you heels a little, lean your weight a bit forwardr, and try moving with the ball of your feet. The most important thing is don't rush ! Beginers have the tendency to charge like a rocket launcher, thinking that sudden and big movements will make them faster. But this have the opposite effect as bigger movements means more abrupt change of direction and lesser recovery time. Not to mention, not economic in keeping your energy and stamina. Try changing direction and moving forward/backward with smooth motion(keep it as simple as possible) and steady motion. If you can't get the shuttle for the first few times, don't get frustrated, slowly increase your speed until you can reach them in time. Remember, learning to get the rhythm of footwork is more important than retreiving shuttle for now. Yes, always pay attention to staying on your toes and rhythm of your movement.

    If your ankle is stong and you have done the correct method, you will naturally feel light and feel like you are a jack in a box and just springing around the court(not literally spring like that but...you will get the idea sooner or later). A even better footwork(countless years of proper training) than this is you will feel like gliding around the court and people will watch your ''dance on court'' in astonishment.
     
  14. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2,049
    Likes Received:
    735
    Occupation:
    Professional
    Location:
    England
    quacky, as always you ask sensible questions, get fantastic advice from the helpful people here, especially in this case to Gollum, cobalt and visor for their clear explanations and offering training advice to help you on your way. As usual, you have understood the key points and started to practise them :) Well done and keep it up. I wish all badminton players had your enthusiasm! I hope your injuries do not become too severe :(
     
  15. quacky

    quacky Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco CA
    Thank you Icleing. When I watch professional games online, badminton is definitely an art. I'm going to train my leg strength and develop good rhythem. After my basic movement down, I'll work on forming muscle memory for movements from base to each area of the court. That would probably take weeks to just get the fundamentals of it for me. Then after that, I'll work on getting to each area of the court starting from a random position, not necessary for muscle memory but to increase recovery time for quickness. At least that's the plan.
     
  16. quacky

    quacky Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco CA
    Thank you for the encouragement MSeeley. I've been very blessed. I used to be so sickly that now being able to play badminton is simply wonderful. Thank you for your empathy in terms of injuries. Since September, I have had over a dozen bruises on my legs, several broken toe/finger nails, injured both knees (and recovered thanks to advice from Visor and Fidget!), and injured my right shoulder (pain is tolerable but the diminished reach is not such a good indication). I have even had bruises on my inner thighs from my muscles contracting too fast which according to those I play with is just weird.
     
  17. lcleing

    lcleing Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    842
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Malaysia
    No problem, quacky. Good to see that you already have plans for your training!

    Oh dear, those injuries sound nasty. Now with those past injuries, you have more the reason to learn proper footwork! Pretty sure you can find them on youtube videos. And things will only get better now! Take care and good luck on your training.
     
  18. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Messages:
    8,906
    Likes Received:
    10
    Occupation:
    Yes
    Location:
    Arrakis
    Quacky, if you have an injured shoulder, I think you need to stay off badminton for a while, and allow the shoulder sufficient rest and the correct supervised exercise to help rebuild your shoulder muscles and tendons correctly. You could use the intervening period to build up your body strength, stamina, and muscle tone and elasticity.

    Any exercises involving hands/shoulders should be done VERY SLOWLY and very carefully, always being AWARE of what is happening to those weakened and injured areas, and never attempting to push to the limit, rather, staying well within (80-90% at most) of the limit. I would advise you to check with your physio for the correct routines.
     
  19. quacky

    quacky Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco CA
    Icleing: The number of bruises have gone down quite a bit. I am an amateur learning badminton and banging myself up. As for the bruises from non contact, just muscle contractions, those are less common and less severe now that my body is developing. I am naturally very clumsy and in articulate in terms of muscle control.

    Cobalt: I'm afraid you, Visor, or MSeeley would tell me to take a break. I have been trying to play in ways that minimize the use of affected muscles/tendons. I guess it's a mental challenge to stop. I felt as if I have been waiting for years to be active and now I need to wait some more. If the doctor does tell me that I have to put my racket down, I hope I can still train in other ways. I will try not to develop a muscle imbalance though. And I really appreciate that you emphasize on doing exercises Very Slowly. No one told me this.
     
  20. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    2,049
    Likes Received:
    735
    Occupation:
    Professional
    Location:
    England
    I think its fantastic that everyone thinks of different important things. Cobalt reminded us that when we are starting out we must be extremely careful not to "overdo" our training in order to try and get quick results. Given your history quacky, I think being careful and slowly building up your fitness and strength is an excellent thing to keep in mind. Good post cobalt.
     

Share This Page