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  1. #35
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    I dont know how exactly how it works there, but couldn't you join a competition so that you can have a chance beating them?

  2. #36
    Regular Member urameatball's Avatar
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    MSeeley, if you're really confident in your game:
    you can walk up and challenge them... loser gives winner a feather bird for each game.

    If you can beat them, not only will they keep challenging you back, you'll also be getting free birds

  3. #37
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    To yoppy - I DID join a competition (the one used for county selection) and I DID beat some of them. I gained no recognition for it... why? I don't know Like I said its probably because I was beating the lower standard players, not the higher standard players... but I have had no training like they get, have been playing less time, and would love a chance to work hard and improve. I am frustrated that I didn't get more of an opportunity to show my skills (remember, I am nervous, these guys are very good, I am not playing my best, and I am not used to the conditions and standard/pace like they are). Hopefully next time I can beat someone good, but if I can beat the lower standard players, why can't I train at their standard?

    To urameatball: I only just realised you posted something on the second page - you made an EXCELLENT point regarding the runners! What I am proposing, is that the Elite runners like you say spend some time with the up and coming runners - who are not quite at that world class standard, who in turn spend time with the next level down, and so on down to beginners. However, I also feel, that the situation you described, it would NOT be harmful for the sprinter going 10mph to spend 5 minutes chatting to the enthusiastic runner who asked for help - obviously training together is not right, but spending some (limited) time together - only a very small amount, is not, in my opinion going to be damaging. I don't believe that runner would be affected by a 5 minute break, and the learner would benefit hugely, and go on to tell his friends! This is the way I see it.

    I wondered if you would be interested in reading this article about badminton development... see what you think
    http://www.badmintonlife.com/2010/yo...badminton-fan/

    With regard to challenging them... the problem is, they do not let "outsiders" into their training, I don't know where it is or when it is, so I can't even begin to get in with them, they are so closed off as a group. And why? They get what they need, but they don't have the threat of losing to outsiders like me. I probably wouldn't beat them, but give me two weeks and I will be winning games! If I did try to challenge them, they can simply refuse to do so, claiming its a waste of their time, because I am not good enough to play with them (sound familiar?) all the while they know that they have everything to lose (their place in the squad) and nothing to gain (who cares about beating some random outsider?)

    Very frustrating

    Cheers

    Matt

  4. #38
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    Very frustrating indeed Matt.

    If you were to migrate to Australia I will welcome you to our club

  5. #39
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    Thanks yoppy Not anytime soon Im afraid...

  6. #40
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    This is in response to what Gollum lcleing & Mseeley were discussing.

    I am with Icleing-Players attitude is more important than his skills. I am more than happy to play with a lesser player who wish to improve/willing to listen. Same way, I hate to play with a superior player who show an attitude by not playing seriously. Also there are a few players who play reasonably good-but in a weird style and not willing to change. We have one such partner who thinks it is clever to drop where he could have played a winning shot. When ever I play with him, I am in dilemma-I do not know where to stand (Attack of defense) Many times, seeing a slow drop from my partner, I was forced to retreat back and opponents could play an easy winning shot (Net tumble or tap). At the end, he blames me for not guarding the net-really frustrating.

    Gollum, winning is not always and indication of players true skills & caliber in regular club games (unless it is a tournament where you really want to win) Some weird styles can really surprise you, break the rhythm and tire you out. There are some players who serves really high to the back court in a doubles match. A very hard smash can win you the rally outright. But after receiving 10-15 such serves, you may loose interest, feel pain in the joints and prefer to play an easy shot instead. Same can happen when you play against good defenders-especially when your partner do not support you with the same intensity attacking play. These cases, the opponents whom you consider weaker may eventually win a few games-does not mean that they are better players

    In the club where I play, we have 5 courts. 3 are open-you can buy a 1$ ticket and play for an hour, no questions asked. You need to share the space with other players around, also you will never get a chance to choose your partner and opponents. The other 2 courts are reserved for regulars/elite players. You pay premium to play in those courts and you need to be an "A" player. 2 years, I played in the open court which was really frustrating-but the hard work has paid off. I got promotion and now I play in the company of A players. Still I luv their system
    NP

  7. #41
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    nprince, I got the feeling that Gollum was hinting that players who CONSISTENTLY win, should be taken seriously, regardless of their style.

    If they don't win under pressure, then thats something important to consider. However, I have known plenty of players with very very strange looking technique, or a particular way of playing, that win match after match after match... I believe he should be given the opportunity to play matches at a higher standard, even if someone else who SHOULD be as good, misses out. Everyone deserves a chance

  8. #42
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    I got the feeling that Gollum was hinting that players who CONSISTENTLY win, should be taken seriously, regardless of their style.
    That's right. At the very least, if new players are winning, they should be invited back for a second try. Give them a chance to prove themselves, rather than dismissing them on the basis of "style".


    Am I the only one who thinks thats unreasonable? How am I supposed to become good enough to beat someone as good as that, without playing at a similar standard?
    Sadly, county badminton in the UK can be something of a "closed system". Not always, but often. Sometimes it's deliberate cronyism, but often it's just that the club/county structure does not facilitate mingling between different standards or groups.

  9. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSeeley View Post
    nprince, I got the feeling that Gollum was hinting that players who CONSISTENTLY win, should be taken seriously, regardless of their style.

    If they don't win under pressure, then thats something important to consider. However, I have known plenty of players with very very strange looking technique, or a particular way of playing, that win match after match after match... I believe he should be given the opportunity to play matches at a higher standard, even if someone else who SHOULD be as good, misses out. Everyone deserves a chance
    Hi,

    I've experienced county setup as well What I think is that beating county 3rd players really isn't good enough You really need to beat the 2nd team players. The logic is that the 3rd team players are not consistent/experienced enough and therefore can always be beaten on a bad day.

    There is another important criteria - you have to look decently good with technique on court.

    My feeling is the same as yours though - even with a strange technique , results should count.

  10. #44
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    Hmm everyones raised good points for this discussion, I guess you gotta use some common sense and just know where to draw the line...

    As a beginner it's very discouraging if you go to a social club and have no one play with you or get looked down upon because of your ability, definately not fair as we were all beginners at one stage; and we should all have an equal chance to improve.

    But then the argument is that "better," players want to have a good competitive game because playing with noobs can be boring and also weird because you can't play your normal game and pwn them (not particularly nice)... and then holding back might give the wrong impression as well; it's also not good for your skills if you're a competitive player as someone else mentioned.

    From my point of view ;and having been on both sides of the situation, I think people should go to the clubs that have players around their level and higher, because then you have some healthy competition and at the same time you've also got better; more experienced players which you can watch and learn from. (Watching can lead to rapid improvement esp. when you use it as a form of reflection) Advanced players also shouldn't give a cocky attitude or be arrogant as "arrogance and rudeness are training wheels on the bicycle of life -- for weak people who cannot keep their balance without them." Having said that I have come across some beginner players who are just so unbelievably arrogant just because they have all the latest gear... pay no attention to them I say or do the talking in the court.

    I do agree with Kwun about this diff. clubs diff. attitude business... A lot of the clubs here are pretty arrogant as the majority are made up of overseas students... (by no means am I saying people overseas are arrogant, as I am one myself) but rather they think because they have the better training or they're part of a clique/ group they can show off a little. Sort of like bullies, tough in groups but when they're alone they can't do anything. This sort of mentality isn't welcome and quite frankly there will always be someone better than you at something in the world.

    At the end of the day we go out to have fun, so please people use some common sense... for those who are beginning don't go too far out of your depth and start going to one of the toughest clubs when you've just started learning footwork. And experienced players be humble,if there is intent or a strong willingness to learn help out a little... if there really is a problem don't give people dirty looks or anything but rather I think it's best to take it up with the organiser and let them deal with the situation, that way there is an understanding. Hope I didn't insult anyone

  11. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by nprince View Post
    When ever I play with him, I am in dilemma-I do not know where to stand (Attack of defense) Many times, seeing a slow drop from my partner, I was forced to retreat back and opponents could play an easy winning shot (Net tumble or tap). At the end, he blames me for not guarding the net-really frustrating.
    If your partner plays a drop shot, its an attacking shot so you should guard the net.

    The oppostions resonse will be either net which you could pounce on or a lift to the back with which your partner could maintain the attack.

  12. #46
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    Cheung - you have made an interesting point - but maybe I had a bad day, and hence didn't beat their first team player? Maybe I had a bad day, the 3rd team players had a very good day, and I beat them. Maybe we were both playing rubbish... regardless, why am I not given an opportunity, having shown I can play with good technique, play well under pressure, and beat people who are expected to beat me... isn't that worth giving someone a trial over. I take your point If i beat second team players people would take more notice, but regardless, I think the system is strange! And as regard to "looking right" I can assure you there were no differences in looks between me and them

    bbirdman - I think you should reconsider that opinion, because I tend to agree with nprince - a SLOW drop has very little place in a doubles match where your opponent CAN get there in time to play a net kill (which nprince called a tap) - if you knew your partner had potentially let your opponents play a net kill because he played a SLOW drop, (a fast drop on the other hand is an excellent attacking shot) is it right that you stand at the net and risk getting a shuttle in the face? I would be reluctant to stand my ground, and the opponents have so much time to get there and play an evil net shot - I think its the partners SLOW drop shot tactics that are bad, not the fear of having a shuttle in the face off your partners awful shot! What do you think? Yes drop shots are attacking - but slow dropshots are often suicide!

  13. #47
    Regular Member Andy05's Avatar
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    MSeeley - I played county juniors before, my county experience is similar to yours except I actually paid my fees and was part of the county. I was in the 2nd squad (training squads), at a ranking session the coaches got 3 or the 1st squad juniors to turn up just to play me and nobody else in my squad.
    I did good against them, but 3 younger guys in my squad got promoted the next week because 'they had more potential for the future...'
    My county was corrupt and it all depended on if your parents were on the committee or not.
    I have a feeling you probably play in the county I used to, but I won't publically flame them.

  14. #48
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    I should mention another side of the argument:

    I have a talent identification sheet from Badminton England. They hand out these documents to coaches (well, some of us -- it's pretty disorganised actually) to help us evaluate potential players for the World Class Start programme.

    Talent identification is mainly about spotting potential, not current performance. We're asked to observe the player: what does his overhead hitting action look like? For example, is it compact? Most of these are "what does the player's form look like?" questions, not "how well does he perform?"

    Of course, there needs to be a balance between talent-spotters' subjective judgements, and actual performance. Players who perform well should be given opportunities, and in particular we need to avoid a system where personal connections allow favouritism.

  15. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSeeley View Post
    bbirdman - I think you should reconsider that opinion, because I tend to agree with nprince - a SLOW drop has very little place in a doubles match where your opponent CAN get there in time to play a net kill (which nprince called a tap) - if you knew your partner had potentially let your opponents play a net kill because he played a SLOW drop, (a fast drop on the other hand is an excellent attacking shot) is it right that you stand at the net and risk getting a shuttle in the face? I would be reluctant to stand my ground, and the opponents have so much time to get there and play an evil net shot - I think its the partners SLOW drop shot tactics that are bad, not the fear of having a shuttle in the face off your partners awful shot! What do you think? Yes drop shots are attacking - but slow dropshots are often suicide!
    Was expecting that response! Was playing devil avocate in a way. Agree a loose net shot which enables oppostion to net kill is practically undefendable and its your partners error.

    The reason I raised this, is at the moment I have the opposite problem. My best go to shot is a drop shot. I have partners that when I play a drop shot remain in the back court enabling the opponent an easy net shot return winner! Even though its tight enough to stop a net kill return.

  16. #50
    Regular Member urameatball's Avatar
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    let me get this straight... your best go to shot is something that can be countered with "an easy net shot return winner"?
    My advice is, stop using your go to shot!!!!!!!!!!!! -- at least whenever you're playing with your existing partners.

  17. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by urameatball View Post
    let me get this straight... your best go to shot is something that can be countered with "an easy net shot return winner"?
    My advice is, stop using your go to shot!!!!!!!!!!!! -- at least whenever you're playing with your existing partners.
    Not easy if your partner is at the net like they should be, they do a net shot and your partner does a net kill. Or they do a lift and you continue the attack.
    lets say i do 2 smashes at opponent then mix it up with a drop shot. If opponent gets there then they can respond with an easy net shot winner if your partner is not there guarding the net.
    Basic doubles badminton! You play as partnership.
    Same could be said if smashing at the back, its your partners responsibilty to guard the net or they could respond with an easy net block shot

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