Mseeley, more often than not you speaks my mind. Thank you. I cannot agree with Bridman or иεvvεи٭т -when you say, drop shots are your go to shots-however good it may be & a drop shot close to the net. A drop shot which is really close to the net can work against you. The opponents have many options. A tight spinning net return is deadly. Net Kills & Drives are other option. And every good opponents would be waiting to pounce on your drops when they know that smash is not your go to shot. I will go with what "gollum" suggested, "your drop shots are only as good as your smash" Consider the situation where you forced the opponents to lift. You will expect your partner to smash and your position would be around a meter behind "T" to cover the replies tot he smash. Instead, if your partner plays a drop (If drops are his "Go to" shots, good opponents will anticipate them and stand further close to the net, always ready to move forward), you will be the one who is deceived-not your opponents. They will see the shot early and move accordingly. But you need to wait till the bird passes you and you will be in a vulnerable position. I do not risk moving forward unless I am sure that I do not get a smash\drive on my eyes. By then, a simple net return also would look threatening. And they have all the other shots which I discussed earlier + cross court net if my partner plays to the corner. Sorry for deviating from the main topic-Soon we will come back!!! NP
Just a thought about slow drops in singles vs. doubles: A slow drop in singles is probably more risky than in doubles, simply because you don't have a partner covering the net. You will probably not reach the net in time to challenge your opponent's tight net shot. By the time you get there, your only options may be a late net shot (offering a kill) or a short lift (offering a good smash). In doubles, your partner is well-positioned to challenge any net play. This means you can use slower drops quite effectively. Having said that, you can still cause problems by playing your drops too slow, so that the opponents can reach them at or close to net height. Judgement is required. Remember that "fast drop" and "slow drop" are very general categories. You can hit drop shots at more than just two "standard" speeds. My perception is that typical doubles drop shots are a little slower than typical singles drop shots. Of course, fast drops are also effective in doubles.
Gollum, for the first time with you, I think otherwise, In singles, you canot come forward to the net in anticipation of a slow drop because, then a puch clear will put you in diffuclty. But in doubles, I will be willing to risk moving front in anticipation against a habitual droper trusting my partner to cover for me. If I make it, I get an oprtunity for an easy kill. A punch clear or any other shot will be punished by my partner. Of course, one need to be considering a smash return as well-but that evens out in singles & doubles. Again, I think I have a better chance in doubles because, I need to worry about defending\escaping from smash to a small region. Rest is for my partner to take care off. Does that make sense? NP
nprince, I think you may have misinterpreted what Gollum has said. I believe Gollum is not saying that in singles your opponent would have to move forwards in order for you to be in trouble for performing a slow drop shot, but that in singles, BECAUSE it is slower, and should land closer to the net, your opponent will have more time to get to the shuttle (he will have to move further, BUT he has the time to do so). So you see, your assumption about "anticipating net shots" makes you vulnerable to the punch clear, is not, in my opinion, correct - it may be for some people, but shouldn't be the case for those with a high standard of movement. Once he gets there, he is so close to the net, he can perform any number of evil net shots, including a devastating tight spinning net shot. In singles, this is really bad as Gollum describes. In this respect, a slower drop shot in doubles is less risky, because you have one player devoted to covering the net, and so your opponents "tight net shot" may not be so devastating, indeed you might get there in time to kill the reply if it is played to the net. On the other hand, a fast drop shot in singles, has a good advantage over a slower drop shot in singles. On one hand your opponent doesn't have to move as far, but at the same time they have less time to get there - so in this respect, its the same as a slow drop shot - your opponent WILL get to it. However, a faster drop shot should land further away from the net. When your opponent reaches this shot, they will have GREAT difficulty playing a decisive tight net shot, because they will take the shuttle from further away from the net. Thus, in this respect, you have limited what your opponent can do to "hurt" you in the rally. Hence, the faster drop may be considered a better choice in singles, than a slow drop. I feel it is on the above point in bold that you have slightly misunderstood Gollum - I agree though that in doubles, a slow drop is STILL risky, because your doubles opponent MAY anticipate the shot and play a kill. I feel reading Gollums guide on different types of pressure - there is shot making pressure, and there is movement pressure - may help you understand where Gollum is coming from. To my mind, in singles, the movement pressure between a fast and slow drop is about the same (different, but still relatively equal). However, the shot making pressure for a fast drop is, in my opinion, MUCH MUCH higher than for a slow drop. In doubles however, movement pressure doesn't really make sense - there are two of you - because if you rotate well, you will cover the court well! However, shot making pressure - coming up with good shots under pressure - is much much more important. A slow drop creates more shot making pressure in doubles than in singles, because your opponent has to worry about the well stationed front court attacker! A fast drop still has many many good benefits too. Thats the best explanation I can give, on why I think Gollum is correct, but you are also correct! I feel its a combination of shot making pressure and movement pressure. Hope that you can follow that, I don't have time to reword it right now! I can come back and do so if you don't understand what I mean. Matt
As Matt explained, the main issue with slow drops is not anticipation, but time and trajectory. Anticipation can always be a problem, regardless of which shot you are playing. If your opponent anticipates your shot, then he will be better prepared for it -- in extreme cases, he will move to intercept the shot before you even hit it! This is especially problematic if you played a shot to the net. Even without anticipation by your opponent, however, a slow drop can be risky -- particularly in singles. Slow drops take longer to reach the net, and arrive closer to the net tape, setting your opponent up for a tight spinning net shot. Performing this same shot off a fast drop is impossible (although you can use some undercutting). See my singles tactics page on drop shots. There are several connected elements in these tactical evaluations: The position of your opponent: without anticipating, where will he be hitting the shuttle from? Your recovery position: when your opponent reaches the shuttle, what position will you have reached? In doubles, the position of your partner. Your shot's trajectory: e.g. a slow drop shot has a more loopy trajectory that leaves it falling closer to the net, and this affects the trajectories of your opponent's possible shots.
Well then your defence will be broken and I can then playing any number of winning shots or setup for a winning shot
Matt, is there another way of getting selected into the team other than playing with the county players? I am pretty sure that you can find some very good clubs near your area. By joining the club and winning league matches with them, you will expand your network. I am not sure about your county, but there exist a league hierarchy in my place where you get to play in premier league if you join one of the best teams in the county or second league if your team is weaker.Some of the players in the league are tournaments organizers and have connection to Badminton England. They could well be county coaches(or even ex-national coaches) which can possibly give you some quality training. Presumably if you played well enough, you will get noticed by them? And probably they can recommend you to the governing badminton association after seeing your potential. I have some opportunity to play in a club which is dominant by Chinese. They play in the premier league in my county. Although some of them were not young(mid 30's -40's) but they have very fine technique which make them very challenging to play against. Some of them are ex-national players from Malaysia, now working in UK while others have experience in other badminton association back in their junior days. Some of those people are badminton fanatics and are members of Badminton England. Perhaps you could talk to them if you ever come across such clubs? Even if they can't do anything about getting you into the county team, as least they can train you to a certain level, which is probably enough to beat the kids from the first team. Good luck
IMO If your partner played a slow drop and opponent responded with a net kill, then its your partners error. It doesn't really matter where you stand. If your partner plays a slow drop and opponent responded with a net shot and you were unable to at least make contact with it then its your error.
Unless the opponent was coming in for a kill, and sees everyone backing up, and decides to switch to a net shot winner. In some cases, it's always the drop player's error because their drop shot is so obviously predictable that no matter how tight they drop it, the opponent already moved up in anticipation for a kill.
I think of a net shot as taken level or below the net. Not seen it happen where somebody has allowed an easy tap down to travel below or level with net. Yet to come across a player who can net kill my well placed drop shots. Being an habitual drop shooter so far i find its a big weakness in singles more than doubles. Must get over my phobia of clearing shots as I have more power nowadays.
iceling: thankyou for your suggestions. I play premier in Coventry, but warwickshire is not the county i was referring to. I play against county players quite regularly (Warwickshire is quite a strong county, with a lot of teams) in the league - the lower standard ones. They are consistent, but not unbeatable by any means. I hope that in the years to come I will do exactly as you have said, and prove to myself and to others that I can play some very good badminton! bbirdman: I have to agree with urameatball. I myself, on countless occassions, have decided that I would not hurt anyone with a net kill, and played a drop instead - all because of a poor choice of shot from my opponent. However, important not to do this too often, lest I lose my taste for net kills. I do love them particularly when people try to catch me out by playing a net shot off my serve... I personally consider a net shot as played from the forecourt, to your opponents forecourt. Hence, playing the shuttle from above the net, making it land close to the net, is also considered by me to be a net shot. Probably could have been a kill, but its sometimes just not very nice :s You must understand me though - a good dropshot, is an excellent shot of course "good" depends on the player, the opponents, the situation in the rally, the pressure... etc Matt p.s. I am happy for this to become a discussion about "club cultures" once again - but I feel we did a pretty good job on that earlier?
OK matt I thought drop shots were different from net shots, thats confusing if you ask me. So a net shot which is taken at or above the net and doesn't have its own name? Should do its a very distinct shot in its own right. By slow drop I meant a tight shot played just over the net and played short of service line. But when I think about you can play some fast shots with that criteria A big lofted slow drop shot, now thats a bad idea that results in easy net kill or net drop or push drop or smash net drop or semi smash net drop push . If you partner starts shouting at you for playing a rubbish drop shot then I would say get another partner! Definitions confuse things. Good discusion. Sure if we had this conversation verbally we would find we are more in agreement than not.
bbirdman - you are right, i think the definitions are confusing us. The shot taken above the net from close to the net, is still called a net shot in my mind, even though, as you say, its played with a very different technique. The thing about a shot is like a net shot/drop shot/smash - we are describing the trajectory of the shuttle. However, each of these "shots" can be played in very very different ways! I forgot to mention, this is quite a good shot to use every so often in singles - the threat of the push/drive/net kill can sometimes make your opponent very slow to react to the actual shot played, sometimes its an outright winner. To my mind a "slow" drop is probably the big lofted slow drop shot you described - in essence, it just takes a long time for it to reach the net, where it falls very close to the net. When you say "slow drop" I would say "tight drop" = one that lands before the service line and passed very close to the tape - it has been played with precision, but can be played reasonably quickly. This is a very good shot, if played at the right time! As you say, a fast drop shot can also meet the criteria of a "tight drop", but in general a fast drop shot is usually thought of as a kind of half smash - it is played quickly, steeply, and would not normally land before the service line (it is possible, but very unlikely). Thanks for clearing that up! Matt
Wow it's really off topic... in all honesty I believe any shot is effective IF it is performed correctly. Slow drop, fast drop, net kill etc etc... even if the drop shot is your go to shot, you play the right shot at the right time; your opponent can't do anything. Even if they know your "go to" shot; if you're good enough you can still outplay them with it. Can we please get back on topic? =D
Different players, different play . As usual, our BCers have forgotten to pay attention to our thread title., Reminding everyone that our thread title is: "Different clubs, different attitudes". Lately we have been discussing "Different players, different play". .
You are correct-This discussion is really off topic. And to start with, the thread itself was created in the wrong forum (Techniques training), it should have been in "general discussions". And as we deviated, we were more aligned with the forum (Techniques training) and it does not hurt anybody rt? I enjoyed discussion in the whole thread-starting from "different clubs and standards", then "different players and their attitude" and "slow drops and it merits-de-merits". NP
Let us wait for kwun to reply . Let us wait for kwun to reply; as to why this thread is placed in our 'Techniques/Training' Sub-Forum. .
