How to improve my Mens' 6 partner skill?

[UkPlayer]

I reread this and understand now.

There's no need for him to stand as far back as the male player serving in a typical mixed doubles scenario.

Let me explain a little more clearly. A lot of people who do a doubles serve stand right up to the service line when they serve. Not sure if you partner does the same. However, not everyone can pull off a consistently good low serve from this position. Why? The closer you are to the net when serving, the steeper the shuttle has to travel up to the top of the net to go over. Thus, the shuttle has more chance to go further upwards after it has past the net. This puts a lot of pressure on the server to make a good serve. Not an easy situation even though we see the pros do it.

I found for myself, serving from about 6-8 inches behind the service line would increase my quality of serve a lot. The shuttle can travel a little flatter, the highest point of the shuttle trajectory would be the tape of the net, the shuttle would be descending straight after crossing the net.

Because of the shuttle descending, the receiver has to hit the shuttle upwards. It shifts the game dynamics so that you are more likely to have the initiative very early in the rally.

I still need to practice the serve for the consistency but just stepping back slightly from the service line when serving in doubles really made a big difference.

With the below waist rule I think it makes sense to stand back if you're a smaller player, but on the line if you're taller. Not sure if it does with the new rule. People should do what works for them though and not just stand on the line because everyone else is.

 

[UkPlayer]

Not to be blowing my own trumpet, I can say I serve very well (I play doubles) , with the shuttle just travelling above the net where the opponent cannot make a kill.

They can either push to the sides, play a return net shot or lift.
Of these 3 shots, the lifts will be to our advantage if I have a partner who is good at the rear court. To prevent the receiver from playing the return net shots, I move forward to disrupt them. The sides shots are most difficult ones for us to play.

If you move forward to disrupt the net shot you can't intercept pushes to the side.

 

[UkPlayer]

The new league season is underway and I am due to play my third match tonight. I assume I am playing with the same partner again.

He gets nervous during serving and admitted to me during club night that he doesn't know where to place the shuttle during ralleys to get advantages.

As far as I know he only plays at club night and matches. I was lucky enough to get 10 minutes alone with him to help practice his serve and try to put him under pressure and see how he serves at that point.

We've only won 1 out of 7 games the previous two matches. It is slowly improving, we scored 6 more points the second match than in the first one. I keep telling him to take his time when serving, but it loses us 4+ points a game by going into the tape or being a bad flick.

Anyone have thoughts or suggestions? I'm an easygoing person and generally non-confrontational. I want him just to forget the score and play well .

If you are playing with a partner that does not have time to train, do not expect to improve. He literally has to stand on court for several sessions and just do serve to correct this and get confidence. He's well aware this is a problem and it has to come from him to get over it. Tell him to put the time into correcting it and if he does not have the time/desire then forget about winning/losing and use the matches to train yourself to get better and seek another partner that will train with you meantime.

Trying to correct this during matches is not the way to go. If you are not correcting it outside of matches then the real issue is that you can't find the right partner, that's down to you to correct. You do this by being better so that you have your pick of who to play with at your club or you go out of your way and move to a different club to find someone that matches you which may involve travel. It is not easy at all but we all have to do it if we want to progress. It takes time and effort and patience.

 

[BadmintonDave]

If you are playing with a partner that does not have time to train, do not expect to improve. He literally has to stand on court for several sessions and just do serve to correct this and get confidence. He's well aware this is a problem and it has to come from him to get over it. Tell him to put the time into correcting it and if he does not have the time/desire then forget about winning/losing and use the matches to train yourself to get better and seek another partner that will train with you meantime.

You have a good point. Some people play well at club night and then nerves get the better of them if they aren't used to playing matches (pressure etc. limbs actually shaking and stuff).

Trying to correct this during matches is not the way to go. If you are not correcting it outside of matches then the real issue is that you can't find the right partner, that's down to you to correct. You do this by being better so that you have your pick of who to play with at your club or you go out of your way and move to a different club to find someone that matches you which may involve travel. It is not easy at all but we all have to do it if we want to progress. It takes time and effort and patience.

I haven't played another League match yet with him because he injured his knee and took some time out.

I do travel 45 minutes on Sundays for my toughest club night. The players there are mostly a very high standard and it's fun to just even watch them play to learn.

I will be trying out for a different club for next season due to this and other reasons. I'm just getting frustrated at the club and a bit at myself

 

[SnowWhite]

There is quite a difference between serving without a receiver, serving to a receiver during club nights, and serving in a game with stakes such as a league match. I think the latter is difficult to train for.

Then there is the difference between serving to an aggressive player toeing the line, and to a player who is less aggressive on the serve.

Then there is the difference between serving at 1-1 or serving at 19-20.

It's almost not about serving at all, but general nervousness. It's just that the serve is where nervousness often makes a difference. So when a player can otherwise serve well, but is inconsistent, the problem is often not technique, but the mental game. And that is hard to train, hard to improve, and exceptionally difficult to coach.

 

[UkPlayer]

There is quite a difference between serving without a receiver, serving to a receiver during club nights, and serving in a game with stakes such as a league match. I think the latter is difficult to train for.

Then there is the difference between serving to an aggressive player toeing the line, and to a player who is less aggressive on the serve.

Then there is the difference between serving at 1-1 or serving at 19-20.

It's almost not about serving at all, but general nervousness. It's just that the serve is where nervousness often makes a difference. So when a player can otherwise serve well, but is inconsistent, the problem is often not technique, but the mental game. And that is hard to train, hard to improve, and exceptionally difficult to coach.

I agree with you to an extent, but it goes some way to getting over this is to work out how to do the serve without looking at the opponent and hit serves for hours and hours on end with your eyes down. If you have 16 foot room/garage you set up a net with a bit of string, mark the lines, and hit and hit and hit. Work out a technique that works for you, know yourself, then take it onto court. You count the amount of times you get the serve right, and improve it. If you know you hit 98/100 right then you have that knowledge to fall back on in a tense situation. You get your partner and go on court and get them to attack your serve and learn that. Do it hours and hours again.

It's incredibly difficult to keep the mental concentration and focus doing this and this is where the mental aspect comes in. You are bored, you continue. People on the other courts are wondering what you're doing, you continue. Some kids on the other court are making noise, continue. You are tired of doing it, you continue, Hit that serve perfectly to beat that previous record you set. It's tedious and difficult and mentally tiring to do nothing else but hit a serve for 2 hours every day for a week. All of this gives you confidence in a match that you don't get just hitting in games.

It really is often the difference between winning and losing in matches, just this one simple thing. Not only are you giving away points if you lose it, you are giving away momentum and taking the pressure off the opponents.

If you have total confidence in your serve it does not matter where the opponent is standing as you just go through the motion like you've done it thousands of times, it will take away a lot of the nerves if you know you've done it so many times before and do not focus on the opponent beyond a cursory glance before preparation.

I agree at some point there is the mental aspect but again having total confidence in your serve will push you through this eventually. You cannot get that without having gone through the painful bit of standing on a court on your own for hours on end hitting a serve.

It really comes down to desire at the end of the day, are you willing to do what it takes to nail your serve or not. That is the bit that cannot be coached. So many players at clubs just do not want to do this. Once you've got it, you've got it. If you do have that desire then you will find yourself continually in games where your serve is being pressured all the time.

 

[Cheung]

I agree with you to an extent, but it goes some way to getting over this is to work out how to do the serve without looking at the opponent and hit serves for hours and hours on end with your eyes down. If you have 16 foot room/garage you set up a net with a bit of string, mark the lines, and hit and hit and hit. Work out a technique that works for you, know yourself, then take it onto court. You count the amount of times you get the serve right, and improve it. If you know you hit 98/100 right then you have that knowledge to fall back on in a tense situation. You get your partner and go on court and get them to attack your serve and learn that. Do it hours and hours again.

It's incredibly difficult to keep the mental concentration and focus doing this and this is where the mental aspect comes in. You are bored, you continue. People on the other courts are wondering what you're doing, you continue. Some kids on the other court are making noise, continue. You are tired of doing it, you continue, Hit that serve perfectly to beat that previous record you set. It's tedious and difficult and mentally tiring to do nothing else but hit a serve for 2 hours every day for a week. All of this gives you confidence in a match that you don't get just hitting in games.

It really is often the difference between winning and losing in matches, just this one simple thing. Not only are you giving away points if you lose it, you are giving away momentum and taking the pressure off the opponents.

If you have total confidence in your serve it does not matter where the opponent is standing as you just go through the motion like you've done it thousands of times, it will take away a lot of the nerves if you know you've done it so many times before and do not focus on the opponent beyond a cursory glance before preparation.

I agree at some point there is the mental aspect but again having total confidence in your serve will push you through this eventually. You cannot get that without having gone through the painful bit of standing on a court on your own for hours on end hitting a serve.

It really comes down to desire at the end of the day, are you willing to do what it takes to nail your serve or not. That is the bit that cannot be coached. So many players at clubs just do not want to do this. Once you've got it, you've got it. If you do have that desire then you will find yourself continually in games where your serve is being pressured all the time.

Hit the money right on the button.

Most players just don’t practice the serve enough to be confident and stable under pressure.


My particular additional trick is to zoom my eye focus on the top of the net tape and mentally block out the eyes of the opponent.

Another useful tip is if a player is a particularly good receiver, change the direction of the serve to be left or right slightly. Even a slight change can neutralise the receiver quite a lot.

 

[BadmintonDave]

My particular additional trick is to zoom my eye focus on the top of the net tape and mentally block out the eyes of the opponent.

Another useful tip is if a player is a particularly good receiver, change the direction of the serve to be left or right slightly. Even a slight change can neutralise the receiver quite a lot.

Yes, I agree with this. An intermediate session before my advanced club night was under subscribed so I got to play in for free to make numbers up. One person managed to attack my serve successfully 3 times in a row. I changed to a wide serve and they could not adjust to attack it

 

[Cheung]

Yes, I agree with this. An intermediate session before my advanced club night was under subscribed so I got to play in for free to make numbers up. One person managed to attack my serve successfully 3 times in a row. I changed to a wide serve and they could not adjust to attack it

Try experimenting serving aiming two feet left or right of your original shuttle path. That can be quite effective as well.

 

[BadmintonDave]

Try experimenting serving aiming two feet left or right of your original shuttle path. That can be quite effective as well.

Sorry I'm not good at measuring in feet.

Normally I aim at the T, and when I serve wide I aim for the front left of their left box, or the front right of the right box.

Are you saying aiming at the middle of the front line of the box is also effective?

 

[SnowWhite]

I agree at some point there is the mental aspect but again having total confidence in your serve will push you through this eventually. You cannot get that without having gone through the painful bit of standing on a court on your own for hours on end hitting a serve.

I can only speak from my own experience, and my view does not invalidate yours. But my experience has not involved the extensive training you've described. Interestingly, when I serve on an empty court, the serves are far less consistent than when I am serving during a match. To me there is just something weird and uncomfortable about serving without an opponent.
While I am not perfectly consistent, I take pride in my ability to serve well under pressure. The few service errors or loose serves I do play almost never happen in crucial moments. The more pressure there is, the better I seem to serve. To be fair, this phenomenon is not limited to just my serve. My mental game is generally quite strong, being able to elevate my game when tensions are high.

So while I agree that the disciplined training you've described could help people overcome or eliminate their nerves in important moments, I don't think every player needs it to get to a point where they can serve consistently. Maybe some have the innate ability to be unaffected, or be less affected by pressure. But I got there through years of match experience, where I have been exposed to the high tension situations often enough that I've learned to handle it, and even enjoy it. Of course the downside is that it takes a long time.

 

[ralphz]

Normally I aim at the T, and when I serve wide I aim for the front left of their left box, or the front right of the right box.

(I have no doubt you know the following re wide serves but for any lurkers that aren't super into badminton and in the know on this )

The wide serve if done should be very occasional , because it's higher risk. Because or partly because it cuts yourself out from intercepting the reply. But it's useful for a number of reasons. One being variety and less less predictable in the sense that they don't start thinking oh he always serves or low serves in the one same place.

In reply to Cheung you write

Are you saying aiming at the middle of the front line of the box is also effective?

It will be interesting to hear what Cheung says on response to that question that you asked him.


I'd say the answer to the question of if it's useful is certainly Yes. I've had coaches mention that to me as a serve option. It's certainly much safer than a wide one. Because it doesn't "cut yourself out". I e. With a wide one they could hit it straight(in the sense of parallel with the centre line), down the side tramline. Not really possible for the server to intercept. And usually not easy for a partner at the back to deal with.

And it was mentioned to me once that serving central or rather, at their feet, has an advantage of sometimes a player "isn't quite sure whether to go for it with a backhand or a forehand". And it "kind of catches them". And the variety is good too, being a bit less predictable or being unpredictable.

And I suppose it does mean getting used to doing low serves includes more on getting the power right if looking to do get them on the line and at different widths. If all you ever do is to the T then it's easier to get it on the spot. But at least the serve is one thing you (more than any other shot!), "have complete control over"!

And if training returning low serves, that "middle"/to the feet one, is certainly one that should be included!!!

Some vary the pace too. So then eg some could land a bit further past the opponents short service line. Or even quite fast at them is one, though might require serving from a bit more back from your side's service line. (Rather than just standing at T and serving T to T).

 

[Cheung]

Sorry I'm not good at measuring in feet.

Normally I aim at the T, and when I serve wide I aim for the front left of their left box, or the front right of the right box.

50-60cm if that makes it easier

that’s the simple version

Are you saying aiming at the middle of the front line of the box is also effective?

Yes.

Just so that everyone is clear, I will be referring to doubles serve and receiving serve.


Every receiver has a strong and also a less threatening area.

For example, you are in the right hand court, serving to a righthander and the receiver continually nails your aim-to-the-T service. You are likely serving to his most optimal hitting zone. Even a slight change of angle of direction of your serve will be away from the receivers best hitting zone. This tactic will be effective even against quite advanced players providing your serve isn’t one of those pop-up-and-say-hi types of serve.

When you get to advanced county level, receivers will be comfortable receiving with a wider hitting zone so you would need to adjust accordingly.

Other things you can take note of is the receivers choice of grip when waiting for the serve. Some hold the racquet with backhand grip therefore you can choose to serve to their forehand side to make them change grip or vice versa.

Another thing to watch is their stance and the position of their feet. That can dictate a preference for receiving backhand versus forehand- you direct your serve away from their strong point accordingly.

A more advanced level is not just serve well enough to prevent the receiver from playing a good return but to serve to get the return that you want. Receivers can be quite predictable in their choice of shot i.e. they have a favourite return with certain serves. Because you’re the server, you control the serve the way you want. They play their favourite shot and you anticipate it.

for example, in one competition, I was serving from left side of the court to the near the T area. I noticed the receiver was quite fast on to the serve taking it on his forehand. However, he seemed to just play one type of shot which was a fast flat one around my forehand area. I took a mental note of that and played a number of serves away from that area. Then later on, in the game, I deliberately served to his forehand again and immediately stuck my racquet up to that zone. Sure enough he hit his usual return and before he had time to blink, the shuttle was almost back in his face.

 

[BadmintonDave]

A more advanced level is not just serve well enough to prevent the receiver from playing a good return but to serve to get the return that you want. Receivers can be quite predictable in their choice of shot i.e. they have a favourite return with certain serves. Because you’re the server, you control the serve the way you want. They play their favourite shot and you anticipate it.

for example, in one competition, I was serving from left side of the court to the near the T area. I noticed the receiver was quite fast on to the serve taking it on his forehand. However, he seemed to just play one type of shot which was a fast flat one around my forehand area. I took a mental note of that and played a number of serves away from that area. Then later on, in the game, I deliberately served to his forehand again and immediately stuck my racquet up to that zone. Sure enough he hit his usual return and before he had time to blink, the shuttle was almost back in his face.

That is why I like badminton. The mind games, tactics and noticing patterns in your opponents.

There's someone i've played 6 matches against now. Very good player, moved up from playing Junior badminton. Strong player, great fundamentals. He stands very close to the line to attack the serve and the last mixed game I played against him I started flicking to the farthest corner in the left box. I got an easy 4 points from it, he'd take a step or two and judge it out when it was landing in. After the 4th misjudge I heard him say to himself "what am I doing??". His team ended up winning the match, but it was good experience for me to know that in future he might struggle with my flicks in the odd side box.

 

[dnewguy]

for example, in one competition, I was serving from left side of the court to the near the T area. I noticed the receiver was quite fast on to the serve taking it on his forehand. However, he seemed to just play one type of shot which was a fast flat one around my forehand area. I took a mental note of that and played a number of serves away from that area. Then later on, in the game, I deliberately served to his forehand again and immediately stuck my racquet up to that zone. Sure enough he hit his usual return and before he had time to blink, the shuttle was almost back in his face.

LoL

I have a senior member who does a forehand serve in doubles. He usually gets most people with a quick flat serve parallel to the centre line (the one that divides the court into left & right), it might be his favourite serve.
In our friendly matches, whenever he gets ready to serve towards me i taunt him," Don't you dare do THAT serve !!" It baits him into doing that serve for which I'm ready. I hit it straight back in the direction it came, sometimes too fast for him to even move away.. everybody gets a good laugh
If he gets another chance later on then i bait him again, "Don't you dare REPEAT that with me..!!"
Now he has learned the lesson.. but i see him successfully bully others at the club with that serve. I don't know why people don't adjust to his simple service trajectory.

 

[dnewguy]

There's someone i've played 6 matches against now. Very good player, moved up from playing Junior badminton. Strong player, great fundamentals. He stands very close to the line to attack the serve and the last mixed game I played against him I started flicking to the farthest corner in the left box. I got an easy 4 points from it, he'd take a step or two and judge it out when it was landing in. After the 4th misjudge I heard him say to himself "what am I doing??".

LoL

When I had started out on my mission to become a good receiver, i hated people who have consistently good flick serves.

Now i have stopped standing right at the T, it's very stressful .

 

[BadmintonDave]

New Season - Time to revive topic!

I left my old club in June - July this year. Joined another one that has an A B and C team.

I've been put in the C team and the First mens 6 match was this week, we lost overall but I feel happier with how I played.

Last year, vs that same club (but not quite the same team of players) in 7 games I scored 89 points. And the game this week scored 102 points in 7 games. So Slight improvement is positive!

My issue is I have no emotional connection with my new partner (maybe played 5 games with him at club nights) and he's the treasurer and I don't want to come across as bossy or moaning, big headed etc and i've only recently joined the club.

Out of the whole match I would estimate 30% of mistakes were me, 70% my partner. Simple things like not getting the third shot of a ralley when they return a shot to either far corner, missing the contact point of smashes so it going into the net, being too fast on the serve and having it go into the net. Stuff like that.

How do I go about making us more consistent? I don't even know what motivates my partner. Suggested things after all their smashes missed the mark in the opening game (do more defensive lifts, drive instead of smash), said I didn't mind covering the rearcourt more if he wanted to be nearer the front. But I don't know if it helped. We faced the hardest pair in the first set, then a weaker pair, then their weakest.

I just want to win 60% or more of my games this season. We played at home and I heard on the grapevine the watchers considered me the strongest player of the Cs. Which is good for my ego, but I want results

Also hopefully playing a match against my old club in 3 weeks time. So really, really want to thrash them (if I am picked).

 

[Cheung]

For a new person in the club, I suspect you have been probably setup with the least compatible player in team in the hope of a viable partnership.

Honestly speaking, you can only improve yourself. If you yourself are more consistent, you will get more points.

C team is pretty weak so I would just go with the flow and play your style. Maybe you might win more than 60% of your games but with a partner who can't change (i.e.no ability nor desire to change) I would recommend you to aim to play well yourself. Very importantly enjoy having played a good match without worrying about winning or losing. Adapt as much as possible with the partner's strengths and weaknesses without overstretching yourself.

As about trashing your old club, it would be nice but if your partnership needs time to mature, perhaps moderate your expectations

 

[Razor-BladE]

At the end of the day, probably the majority of club players (unless it's a very high standard club) are "happy" with how they play, in the sense that they go there for some fun and for the social side and that 2 hours is the only time they'll play badminton in the week. They aren't ever going to do training outside of club and probably won't improve much as the years go by.

As Cheung has said, focus on your own game, cut out unforced errors, play better shots/tactics and in due time, hopefully they'll see that and move you up to better teams.

 

[dnewguy]

New Season - Time to revive topic!

I left my old club in June - July this year. Joined another one that has an A B and C team.

I've been put in the C team and the First mens 6 match was this week, we lost overall but I feel happier with how I played.

Last year, vs that same club (but not quite the same team of players) in 7 games I scored 89 points. And the game this week scored 102 points in 7 games. So Slight improvement is positive!

My issue is I have no emotional connection with my new partner (maybe played 5 games with him at club nights) and he's the treasurer and I don't want to come across as bossy or moaning, big headed etc and i've only recently joined the club.

Out of the whole match I would estimate 30% of mistakes were me, 70% my partner. Simple things like not getting the third shot of a ralley when they return a shot to either far corner, missing the contact point of smashes so it going into the net, being too fast on the serve and having it go into the net. Stuff like that.

How do I go about making us more consistent? I don't even know what motivates my partner. Suggested things after all their smashes missed the mark in the opening game (do more defensive lifts, drive instead of smash), said I didn't mind covering the rearcourt more if he wanted to be nearer the front. But I don't know if it helped. We faced the hardest pair in the first set, then a weaker pair, then their weakest.

I just want to win 60% or more of my games this season. We played at home and I heard on the grapevine the watchers considered me the strongest player of the Cs. Which is good for my ego, but I want results

Also hopefully playing a match against my old club in 3 weeks time. So really, really want to thrash them (if I am picked).

I agree with what others said here.

I don't know how labile is your gameplay. For me it's a bit difficult. I try to hog most of the shuttle play when I really wanna win and keep the rallies short as much as possible.
If my partner is good at smashes without movement pressure then I try to setup those lifts.
I avoid lifting/smashing crosscourt.
I smash either down the line or wherever my partner's racquet is at the front court.
I avoid playing service returns which setup lifts to my partner's backhand.

Most importantly make as less errors as possible.