benefits of racket foot back when returning serve?

[ralphz]

I am aware that one should have the racket foot back when returning serve..(And I do always have racket foot back when returning serve!)

But I am asking the following..

Is the benefit of racket foot back

A) To make going back and doing a round the head easier?
or
B) To make going back and doing a forehand easier?
or
Both?

 

[SimonCarter]

To me the main issue to NOT having racket foot back is in case of flick serve you would have to rotate before hitting which is a huge loss of time which is very precious when receiving a flick serve.

 

[Ouchie]

For receiving serve it is for pushing forwards. Either pushing forwards on a low serve or pushing forwards/up after you chasse backwards to get behind a high serve. A flick serve has the potential to force you into making a mistake by giving you less time to get into an ideal position behind the shuttle, in this case you want your racket hand to be behind you.

 

[ralphz]

To me the main issue to NOT having racket foot back is in case of flick serve you would have to rotate before hitting which is a huge loss of time which is very precious when receiving a flick serve.

Do you think you can go back faster on Both Sides, if you have the racket foot back?

Notice in my question I mentioned is it both? or just one of the sides and if so then which?

 

[SimonCarter]

I would say both benefit from having the racket foot behind. That is because you do not have a lot of lateral movement to do anyway.
A and B result to almost the same foot movement when receiving a serve.

 

[DarkHiatus]

Do you think you can go back faster on Both Sides, if you have the racket foot back?

Notice in my question I mentioned is it both? or just one of the sides and if so then which?

The racket foot back is to respond to a flick serve, and it's not just faster to have racquet foot back, but it can become near impossible to intercept a flick serve with racquet foot forward.

With the racquet foot forward, with strong legs, you can leap from toeing the line, to landing your foot on the doubles line. This is possible whether you are going on your backhand side or your forehand side, and to hit the shuttle cleanly with a downwards trajectory, you must keep the shoulder back and play the stroke with your arm/wrist/fingers only. If the shoulder rotates forward, the shot will likely be sliced/flat/missed.

If your racquet foot is forward, you cannot leap to the doubles line in one movement without severely unbalancing yourself. You might just about manage it for the RTH side with the right flick trajectory, but for the forehand side, you'll be struggling for the next shot, assuming you managed to even play a return over the net. It is necessary to pivot to a position with the racquet foot back first, before jumping. If you are tall enough, you can intercept as you pivot, but for a good quality flick serve against a typical height player, if you pivot, you will not have enough time to jump/chasse as well, so you'll be taking a shuttle behind you, low, or in a cramped position (or any combination of these three!).

So racquet foot back is to protect your rearcourt against a flick. For a higher serves or loose flicks, there's plenty time to do chasse + jump, and for short serves, it's fast enough to step forward if you are toeing the line - no need to have the racquet foot forward to 'gain' any speed!

 

[ralphz]

The racket foot back is to respond to a flick serve, and it's not just faster to have racquet foot back, but it can become near impossible to intercept a flick serve with racquet foot forward.

Of course. That's the basis of my first post See- next quote..

"
A)make going back and doing a round the head easier?
or
B) To make going back and doing a forehand easier?
or
Both?"

Notice that both A and B mention "going back" So there's no question that it helps going back.

The whole point of my question is if it helps for going back to the Round the head side, or to the forehand side, or both

And obviously going back in response to a serve is (usually) going to be to a flick serve. (that's the most normal scenario when you're going back in response to a serve.. unless you're dealing with somebody that serves underarm then I guess perhaps it's not a flick serve.. though the same applies anyway)

So racquet foot back is to protect your rearcourt against a flick. For a higher serves or loose flicks, there's plenty time to do chasse + jump, and for short serves, it's fast enough to step forward if you are toeing the line - no need to have the racquet foot forward to 'gain' any speed!

of course, and so I said "I do always have racket foot back when returning serve"

And there's no question that you can (still) return a serve in front of you when the racket foot is back. (and do it well)..and one is meant to! And as I said I do return serve with racket foot back!

There's no question of "how do you return a low serve when your racket foot is back"

Hopefully that is clearer now..

And going back to my question

I'll explain some of the thought process behind it.

The question being-

A)make going back and doing a round the head easier?
or
B) To make going back and doing a forehand easier?
or
Both?"

So here's why I was wondering, in the case of returning serve, whether the racket foot back helps A or B, or Both.

Putting return serve aside,

I remembering hearing that if i'm behind my partner, this could be

Q) When partner's serving or

R) When partner is receiving serve.

Then my feet are meant to be racket foot a bit forward. (I'm not so sure in the case of "R", as i've heard of the racket foot being back there)..

(Notice i'm not talking about returning a serve right now)... But I am talking about being at the back.

And if the shuttle comes high on my forehand side, I have to switch my feet around. Whereas on my round the head side, I pivot and can move towards the shuttle as I pivot. As my non-racket foot can slide as I pivot.

Now that I think more about it.. I suppose if my racket foot is forward, it would indeed bias my round the head side.. (in contrast to racket foot still being forward, but moving to forehand side. As the pivot on the forehand side won't move me - no sliding effect with my non-racket foot on that side).. But the ideal foot position for going back, for either forehand side or round the head side would be racket foot back thus already pivoted.

Interesting though, In a half court game, I have found that if I know my opponent is going to target my round the head side, then I might take up a ready stance of racket foot back. Probably very unorthodox. But then it is so much easier to get shuttles to my round the head side. And interestingly, when my racket foot is forward, it's still my round the head side that is not as good. Maybe partly because the pivot is a longer rotation or slower.. or maybe because the shot itself is flatter. So I can't really do a steep smash on the round the head side.. And maybe I can't even do a high clear on the round the head side.. But my opponent told me that my shots on the round the head side(which he was previously targetting) are much better when my racket foot is back. He was targetting there throughout the rally. And he stopped doing so 'cos I was hitting well from there when my racket foot was back in anticipation.

It's interesting 'cos what i'd heard was that the forehand side is hardest when the racket foot is forward (e.g. case Q or case R). (and I mean hardest compared to racket foot forward and going to RTH side). But in my half court games, when i've had racket foot forward, my opponent found a weak point on my round the head side. Which would suggest that even for case Q or case R, my round the head side would be weaker, when my racket foot is forward.

And yeah for case Q I wouldn't have my racket foot back.. 'cos I have to get the sides ones.. and the ones between me and my partner. No doubt if I did have my racket foot back though, then when the shuttle is lifted high anywhere to the back, then both back ones would be much easier.

And for case Q, there are cases where you know that they're going to lift it.. or do a net shot.. And if they do a net shot that's my partners. They may be very good at lifting serves, putting lots of deception into it so you don't know which side they'll lift to. But if I see a lift coming, and bring my racket foot back, then I guess i'll be that much quicker whichever side they lift to?

 

[DarkHiatus]

Of course. That's the basis of my first post See- next quote..



Notice that both A and B mention "going back" So there's no question that it helps going back.

The whole point of my question is if it helps for going back to the Round the head side, or to the forehand side, or both

And obviously going back in response to a serve is (usually) going to be to a flick serve. (that's the most normal scenario when you're going back in response to a serve.. unless you're dealing with somebody that serves underarm then I guess perhaps it's not a flick serve.. though the same applies anyway)





of course, and so I said "I do always have racket foot back when returning serve"

And there's no question that you can (still) return a serve in front of you when the racket foot is back. (and do it well)..and one is meant to! And as I said I do return serve with racket foot back!

There's no question of "how do you return a low serve when your racket foot is back"

Hopefully that is clearer now..

And going back to my question

I'll explain some of the thought process behind it.

The question being-



So here's why I was wondering, in the case of returning serve, whether the racket foot back helps A or B, or Both.

Putting return serve aside,

I remembering hearing that if i'm behind my partner, this could be

Q) When partner's serving or

R) When partner is receiving serve.

Then my feet are meant to be racket foot a bit forward. (I'm not so sure in the case of "R", as i've heard of the racket foot being back there)..

(Notice i'm not talking about returning a serve right now)... But I am talking about being at the back.

And if the shuttle comes high on my forehand side, I have to switch my feet around. Whereas on my round the head side, I pivot and can move towards the shuttle as I pivot. As my non-racket foot can slide as I pivot.

Now that I think more about it.. I suppose if my racket foot is forward, it would indeed bias my round the head side.. (in contrast to racket foot still being forward, but moving to forehand side. As the pivot on the forehand side won't move me - no sliding effect with my non-racket foot on that side).. But the ideal foot position for going back, for either forehand side or round the head side would be racket foot back thus already pivoted.

Interesting though, In a half court game, I have found that if I know my opponent is going to target my round the head side, then I might take up a ready stance of racket foot back. Probably very unorthodox. But then it is so much easier to get shuttles to my round the head side. And interestingly, when my racket foot is forward, it's still my round the head side that is not as good. Maybe partly because the pivot is a longer rotation or slower.. or maybe because the shot itself is flatter. So I can't really do a steep smash on the round the head side.. And maybe I can't even do a high clear on the round the head side.. But my opponent told me that my shots on the round the head side(which he was previously targetting) are much better when my racket foot is back. He was targetting there throughout the rally. And he stopped doing so 'cos I was hitting well from there when my racket foot was back in anticipation.

It's interesting 'cos what i'd heard was that the forehand side is hardest when the racket foot is forward (e.g. case Q or case R). (and I mean hardest compared to racket foot forward and going to RTH side). But in my half court games, when i've had racket foot forward, my opponent found a weak point on my round the head side. Which would suggest that even for case Q or case R, my round the head side would be weaker, when my racket foot is forward.

And yeah for case Q I wouldn't have my racket foot back.. 'cos I have to get the sides ones.. and the ones between me and my partner. No doubt if I did have my racket foot back though, then when the shuttle is lifted high anywhere to the back, then both back ones would be much easier.

And for case Q, there are cases where you know that they're going to lift it.. or do a net shot.. And if they do a net shot that's my partners. They may be very good at lifting serves, putting lots of deception into it so you don't know which side they'll lift to. But if I see a lift coming, and bring my racket foot back, then I guess i'll be that much quicker whichever side they lift to?

No need to get so defensive - I never implied you don't do it since you explained quite clearly that you prefer racquet foot back in your OP. I explain my rationale for anyone else reading the post otherwise it's a bit boring of a discussion if I just wrote "both".

Note the following:

With the racquet foot forward, with strong legs, you can leap from toeing the line, to landing your foot on the doubles line. This is possible whether you are going on your backhand side or your forehand side...

I.e. Both RTH and FH was my opinion.

As for general positioning, racquet foot forward is normally easier for the RTH movement due to the additional push off for pivoting. This is unrelated to a flick serve return on the RTH, as a good flick will leave you with only a single jump from toeing the line (or a chasse+jump), without any pivot available. It's therefore a stick smash (arm only) action, rather than the full RTH action. If you're behind your partner, then you get a little more time to react since any flicks have to go through/over your partner's racquet, so the trajectory will be higher and you should be able to do a full RTH motion.

 

[Cheung]

I am aware that one should have the racket foot back when returning serve..(And I do always have racket foot back when returning serve!)

But I am asking the following..

Is the benefit of racket foot back

A) To make going back and doing a round the head easier?
or
B) To make going back and doing a forehand easier?
or
Both?

Of course it’s both.

 

[ralphz]

As for general positioning, racquet foot forward is normally easier for the RTH movement due to the additional push off for pivoting. This is unrelated to a flick serve return on the RTH, as a good flick will leave you with only a single jump from toeing the line (or a chasse+jump), without any pivot available. It's therefore a stick smash (arm only) action, rather than the full RTH action.

When I do a RTH, I chasse back where necessary..

if there were no chasses then normally the action (following the chasses), would be the same as if there were chasses..

i'd move my non-racket foot back as I make contact. and my torso would be facing the net.

I guess it is a fairly abbreviated movement of the arm, so it is a stick smash in that sense, but there is the leg involved too. Contact made while the non-racket foot comes back. Would you agree the leg should be doing that?

Infact also with the forehand side, there can be more going on (after side stepping), than just the abbreviated hand movement.. One amateurish guy I played with once, did an unconventional serve a few times when I think he stood in the middle front of the box. When returning serve I face the opponent, so that meant i'm facing at quite an angle maybe facing out of the court if I hit there. I could hit straight(perpendicular to the net), though it'd be an acute angle between my arm and my torso and i've been told that hitting with such an arm-body angle is a funny way to hit it.. and that the angle between arm and body should be more like 90 degrees. So the way I reply to that serve is the sidesteps on my forehand side, then twisting my torso as I hit it so that my torso is facing the net more. Otherwise if I keep my arm-body angle at 90 degrees while that turned away from the net, I will hit it out 'cos done when facing him and he is quite wide!

I'm not sure how abbreviated the arm movement is when there's the other activity going on e.g. the leg coming back with the RTH.. Or, the torso twisting inwards with returning the flick serve on my FH side, done to respond to a guy that is serving from an unconventional position at the front middle of the box.

If you're behind your partner, then you get a little more time to react since any flicks have to go through/over your partner's racquet, so the trajectory will be higher and you should be able to do a full RTH motion.

If i'm behind my partner it'd be my partner serving or returning serve and them lifting it (an underarm shot), rather than them flicking it wouldn't it?

 

[Ballschubser]

You can see the foot position as anticipation of what shot you expect. The feet position will have a major impact on your racket arm/shoulder position too.

Attacking/aggressive (racket foot forward):
You extends your reach forward a lot, but you have major issues if you need to swing your elbow backward to play a clear/drive/smash. So power is mostly generated from your forarm/hands only. This is mostly used when you know, that there is no danger of quick shot, where you need to quickly use your shoulder/elbow to generate power. E.g. after a netshot, if it is tight enough only a netshot or a lift can be played by the opponent. A lift will grant you enough time to rotate your body and use your shoulder/elbow to hit hard enough to play a clear/smash. If the opponent plays a net shot, the reach advantage allows you to take the shuttle really early and you don't need a lot of power to either return a netshot or net kill.

Defensive when not expecting an attack (racket foot backward):
Your shoulder and foot is back, leaving you in a major disadvantage when you need to take a shuttle in front of your body. The advantage is, you can intercept a quick flick. This stance is useful if you play a not so tight net shot, the danger of quick flick is great and the aggressive stance bears a lot of risk.

Neutral
Neutral foot position is used when you don't know where the shuttle will be targeted and the opponent has lot of options to play different shots.It is the best option to move in all directions and hit either a shuttle in front of you or by using your arm/shoulder for a more powerful swing.

Return of serve
The attacking stance would be best to take a low serve. You could quickly rush forward and push/kill the shuttle. It would be a good option if you know, that your opponent is unable to flick. But the distance to the net and angle allows the server to easily hit a flick serve which is hard to take even with a defensive stance. A neutral stance will give you no advantage at all, the shot options and direction of a serve are quite limited. So, a defensive stance is the best compromise to take a serve. It really doesn't matter if you want to take a shot RTH or forhand, in a defensive stance your shoulder is already back and you can utilize it to swing either forhand or RTH.