1 piece stringing - tension for crosses

[experimentalstringer]

Hi everyone, I'm new here, and new to stringing. Started stringing my own rackets and some of my friends' as well. I've been trying both the 1 piece and 2 piece stringing methods, but I've found that more often than not, my racket head seems a little fatter with the 1 piece method.

I'm wondering if I need to increase the cross tension for 1 piece method, similar to 2 piece?
Most information I've seen online says that for 1 piece stringing, cross should equal mains.

The rackets I've tried on are:
Nanoray light 11i
Voltric Z-Force II
Arcsaber 2i
Silver Grey training racket
Aerotek FZ Saber Ti
Guangyu

Findings:
So far, the yonex rackets have the least deviations, ranging between 1-3mm.
(No issue with 2 piece method with +2lb on crosses for yonex)
I've done a few Aerotek ones and had around 6-8mm variation.
(This applies to both 1 piece and 2 piece methods)
Did an old *I think* was ashaway or apacs racket and that one really rounded out even with 2 piece method and +2lbs on crosses with BG65 at 23lbs for mains and 25lbs for crosses.

Strings used were mainly Yonex BG80 Power or BG65
String pattern used: Yonex 2pc stringing method, Haribito basic.
Tension ranged from 24-26lbs
Machine I'm using is a Gamma progression II ELs (6pt mounting)

Any tips or suggestions greatly appreciated!

 

[s_mair]

In general: The right tension ratio to achieve the correct frame shape after stringing does not depend on the pattern that is used. So if you need to use +2 lbs. on the crosses with a 2-piece, then you will need it also with a 1-piece.

my racket head seems a little fatter with the 1 piece method.

Does it only seem that way or have you actually measured it? Like drawing the outer shape of the unstrung frame on a piece of paper an compare it afterwards? Or simply measure the total length of the racket before and after which also gives you a good indication about the head deformation.

And just to get this straight - you are comparing rackets that were strung with 2-piece and +2 lbs. with 1-piece and +0 lbs. on the crosses, correct? If so, then it's very likely that the latter will come out a little more round.

I've done a few Aerotek ones and had around 6-8mm variation.

That is a huge deviation, even for a soft no-name frame, which makes me wonder if your mounting process is right. On my setup, the difference between +0 lbs. and +2 lbs. is at around 2 mm in the measured total length of the racket.

 

[experimentalstringer]

Thanks for the reply!

Does it only seem that way or have you actually measured it? Like drawing the outer shape of the unstrung frame on a piece of paper an compare it afterwards? Or simply measure the total length of the racket before and after which also gives you a good indication about the head deformation.

Except the first few rackets I've done, and seen the obvious rounding, I've started measuring the frame before and after my stringing jobs now.

That is a huge deviation, even for a soft no-name frame, which makes me wonder if your mounting process is right. On my setup, the difference between +0 lbs. and +2 lbs. is at around 2 mm in the measured total length of the racket.

Yeah, I quickly re-strung that, hopefully there wasn't any lasting damage done to the frame.
(6-8mm was an estimation, not an actual measurement. Was one of the first few rackets I started with)

I've re-checked the mounting procedures and I'm pretty sure I've done it correctly. Only thing is, I'm not sure if my 12 and 6 o'clock mount are tight enough. Just wondering if this has any effect on the racket head shape as well? For example, if I were to over tighten, and elongate the racket head during stringing, does this make the mains squeeze the frame back and make it rounder after its removed from the mounts?

Also, is there any real difference between the Haribito Basic and Haribito Professional patterns in terms of game feel, or unnecessary tension to the racket?

 

[s_mair]

I'm not sure if my 12 and 6 o'clock mount are tight enough. Just wondering if this has any effect on the racket head shape as well?

Of course it has. With loose main supports, you allow the racket to be squashed more with the main strings being tensioned, so it's vial that the main supports are tightened correctly. So you maybe have to check and re-tighten them slightly after you tightened the side supports. What I found to be very useful (thanks to @Mark A for that tip!) is to also check the 6 o'clock support after the first two mains have been tensioned. Normally, there will be some play there since the frame gets pulled deeper into the load spreader at the top.

Also, is there any real difference between the Haribito Basic and Haribito Professional patterns in terms of game feel, or unnecessary tension to the racket?

If both are done correctly, then no, there will be no noticeable difference. Don't get carried away by all that voodoo talks about the magic of different patterns feeling more "lively" or whatever buzz word is used. As a beginner, you should focus on getting your stringing process safe and consistent. So maybe try some different patterns and see which one you like best in terms of flow. I somehow clicked with the Haribito Professional very early on and still use it as my standard pattern. Others will always prefer the classic Yonex 2-piece and that is fine as well.

But getting back to your original question once more: The tension ratio mains/crosses should not depend on the pattern that is used.

Edit:
I've just remembered that I made a short video a couple of months ago, showing my mounting process. Yours will be a bit different due to the different side support adjustments, but the basics will be the same:

 

[experimentalstringer]

That is really helpful. I've successfully strung a racket with the 1 piece method, and don't see much rounding out
Your video on calibrating the fixed clamps is also really helpful. Thanks a ton!
I think I can safely conclude that the rounding of the rackets I've faced was likely due to improper securing of the racket onto the mount.

Can I also ask if it's normal for the strings to slide around?
I wonder if there's any stringing techniques involved in preventing this?
I've noticed this for BG80 Power, BG65 and also BG66 UM. Especially after a rally, or a hard smash, the strings tend to go out of position.
I felt that this is more prevalent for the 1pc stringing method compared to the 2 piece methods. Any thoughts on this?

 

[s_mair]

Can I also ask if it's normal for the strings to slide around?

That's perfectly normal. Some strings do it more, some less. Mainly because some strings tend to "snap" back into their original position after the stroke whilst others stay out of position. All strings are moving during the actual impact with the shuttle, especially if you slice the shuttle. To my knowledge, there is no technique that can prevent this from happening or even noticeably improves the issue. Again, patterns don't matter at all at this point - and why should they?

 

[Mark A]

What I found to be very useful (thanks to @Mark A for that tip!) is to also check the 6 o'clock support after the first two mains have been tensioned. Normally, there will be some play there since the frame gets pulled deeper into the load spreader at the top.

This is more of an issue with the cheaper Pro's Pro machines - the 12/6 billiards have a square cross-section that is normally rather loose within the support tower, so there is play not only in the screw thread but around the billiard itself.

You get what you pay for

 

[s_mair]

This is more of an issue with the cheaper Pro's Pro machines - the 12/6 billiards have a square cross-section that is normally rather loose within the support tower, so there is play not only in the screw thread but around the billiard itself.

You get what you pay for

I’ve seen the same effect on all of my machines. It was more on the PP, but there is still like 1 mm gap at the T-joint on my current StringMaster after pulling the two centre mains. You can see how the frame gets pulled into the load spreader at the top. It’s nothing major, but I just don’t fancy any play in the supports.

 

[experimentalstringer]

This is more of an issue with the cheaper Pro's Pro machines - the 12/6 billiards have a square cross-section that is normally rather loose within the support tower, so there is play not only in the screw thread but around the billiard itself.

You get what you pay for

Yeah, there is quite a fair bit of play on the supports. I guess I can only double check the racket is secure before each stringing session.
I'm also noticing quite a fair bit of slippage from the fixed clamp, and when I tighten it up to prevent slippage, I notice that the strings get teeth marks. (I did slow incremental tightening, but the point where there's little to no slippage, the damage occurs. Any less, and it slips; Pulled 30lbs with 66UM as it's the thinnest gauge I have currently.) Thinking of upgrading the clamps. Any recommendations or thoughts on this?

 

[s_mair]

I'm also noticing quite a fair bit of slippage from the fixed clamp, and when I tighten it up to prevent slippage, I notice that the strings get teeth marks.

You are using the original Gamma fixed clamps, right? If yes, then there clearly is no need for an upgrade since those are one of the best "affordable" clamps. Could you maybe take a picture of what you consider "teeth marks". It's fairly normal that you can see slight marks where the clamps have been right after you released them and it's far worse if your clamps are too loose and the string is slipping.

That's what can also lead to rounder heads by the way. When you clamp the mains, the clamp can grab them with the full surface below the teeth so it has the best possible holding power. Once you clamp the crosses, they will only be held by the clamp teeth, which is a lot less contact surface. And in case your clamp is barely holding the mains, it is very likely that you will get some slippage on the crosses with the same setting. This results in a lower effective tension on the crosses and ultimately a rounder head shape.

 

[Mark A]

Yeah, there is quite a fair bit of play on the supports. I guess I can only double check the racket is secure before each stringing session.
I'm also noticing quite a fair bit of slippage from the fixed clamp, and when I tighten it up to prevent slippage, I notice that the strings get teeth marks. (I did slow incremental tightening, but the point where there's little to no slippage, the damage occurs. Any less, and it slips; Pulled 30lbs with 66UM as it's the thinnest gauge I have currently.) Thinking of upgrading the clamps. Any recommendations or thoughts on this?

Get some clamps from Aliexpress with diamond-dust inserts. They are not that expensive but made a huge difference to my string jobs.

 

[s_mair]

Get some clamps from Aliexpress with diamond-dust inserts. They are not that expensive but made a huge difference to my string jobs.

Mate, he already has a Gamma machine and most likely the really good Gamma clamps as well. The AEF ones from Aliexpress are great for the money, but they would not be topping his current ones.

 

[experimentalstringer]

Sorry for the late response.
Tried to snap some photos but probably due to string color, it's really hard to see the teeth marks.
The blue string was the clearest I could manage.

And yup. Using the clamps that came with the gamma, took a photo as well.

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk

 

[s_mair]

Sorry for the late response.
Tried to snap some photos but probably due to string color, it's really hard to see the teeth marks.
The blue string was the clearest I could manage.

And yup. Using the clamps that came with the gamma, took a photo as well.

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk

Looks to me like those clamps, right? https://www.gamma-europe.com/Gamma-Haltezange-Universal-Ultra-thin-black
And hands down, those are high end clamps.

You've mentioned the clamp adjustment clip (which was made by @kwun by the way). Have you really gone through the shown procedure to find the point where it's no longer slipping when the string is held by the teeth only?


In fact, you can skip the first part of the clip since that is the really crucial part when it comes to finding the sweet spot. And don't forget that you need to go through the same procedure with different string gauges and maybe note down the clamp setting (that little arrow on the adjustment wheel is awesome!) for each of the strings you are using.

In general, I would always prefer a slight squashing to slipping since slipping will cause more damage to the string and result in completely unpredictable end results of the whole string job. And looking at the amount of blue residue on your clamp plates, my guess is that there has been some significant slippage happening. You might want to also clean the clamps with isopropanol when you notice that residue is building up like that.

 

[experimentalstringer]

Yep, That's the clamps, and that's the video I followed.
Will definitely try again. Many thanks for the tips!

 

[Super85]

Sorry for the late response.
Tried to snap some photos but probably due to string color, it's really hard to see the teeth marks.
The blue string was the clearest I could manage.

And yup. Using the clamps that came with the gamma, took a photo as well.

Sent from my IN2023 using Tapatalk

WOW! Those clamps screaming for a bath, best thing before you fine adjust them is to give them a proper chance. The easiest way to get them really clean is to take them fully apart and start with wash-up liquid and a toothbrush, later you can also use some alcohol if that’s needed.

 

[experimentalstringer]

WOW! Those clamps screaming for a bath, best thing before you fine adjust them is to give them a proper chance. The easiest way to get them really clean is to take them fully apart and start with wash-up liquid and a toothbrush, later you can also use some alcohol if that’s needed.

Yeah I really should get round to that. Any specific cleaning solution to suggest? I was thinking give them a wipe down with a damp cloth/alcohol solution.

Probably should look around for some video/guides on maintenance too, I reckon

 

[Super85]

I have the same clamps and I find it the best way is to take them apart and scrub them with some wash-up liquid because the surface is so sharp and rough itself that the remaining dust of string doesn’t disappear from the surface with just the alcohol trick like you can do on a regular diamon-dust surface.

You will find out what works out if you just try!

 

[experimentalstringer]

So I've cleaned the clamps and done a few more stringing jobs. Can't help but feel like I might be using the wrong pattern for older rackets (non-isometric) as they seem more rounded off after stringing compared to "newer" isometric ones. (Was mainly using the haribito basic)
I've checked the mounting and clamping - there was very minimal play and no slippage. I also did +2lbs for crosses. But on average there's 3-4mm deviation before and after stringing. On Isometric frames I'm seeing around 2mm max.

Rackets in question:
Ashaway Ti max 9000 ~ 4mm
Li-ning windstorm 72 ~ 1.5mm
Proace Ti Killer ~ 3.6mm
Wilson ncode N4 ~ 2mm (anyone has an official stringing pattern for this badminton racket?)
Yonex Voltric ZF2 ~ 1.3mm

I also wonder if there's any stringing "grading" checklist? Like what makes a good string job, what makes a bad string job?
I spoke to a handful of regular players and some coaches; some of them hit the string bed to "assess" the string job and just from the sound alone, they have varying feedback. >> Can you tell the quality of string job from the sound alone? How does that work?

Apologies if there's already a thread out there discussing this. Happy to jump over to it if there is.

 

[s_mair]

So I've cleaned the clamps and done a few more stringing jobs. Can't help but feel like I might be using the wrong pattern for older rackets (non-isometric) as they seem more rounded off after stringing compared to "newer" isometric ones. (Was mainly using the haribito basic)
I've checked the mounting and clamping - there was very minimal play and no slippage. I also did +2lbs for crosses. But on average there's 3-4mm deviation before and after stringing. On Isometric frames I'm seeing around 2mm max.

Seriously, I've run out of ideas. Have you checked if maybe your side supports are creeping outwards under load?
And to be frank, if the rackets come out in perfect shape using a normal 2-piece pattern, then simply ditch that 1-piece stuff and stick to what's working. Although there should be zero reasons why you would get different shapes as long as you use the same tension ratios.

I spoke to a handful of regular players and some coaches; some of them hit the string bed to "assess" the string job and just from the sound alone, they have varying feedback. >> Can you tell the quality of string job from the sound alone? How does that work?

This theory has been raised and passionately discussed a few times in the past. And without much of a surprise, there has been no clear conclusion. Some say that the longer the ping sound is ringing, the more lively the string job feels. Others insist that there are a lot of factors effecting the "sound quality" of a job (quality of grommets, vibration dampening of the frame, weaving and quality of the carbon fibres used,...) and that the ping sound is mostly depending on the racket and string used. Personally, I have never felt a clear correlation between ping sound quality and string job quality. As with many other things - if you want to believe that a longer ping means a better string job, your brain ultimately will do the rest and suggest that this is actually happening while you're on court.

I also wonder if there's any stringing "grading" checklist? Like what makes a good string job, what makes a bad string job?

Some things that I look at:
- head shape
- knots
- crossovers and amount of slack string on the outside of the racket
- have defective grommets been replaced?
- check for markings/dents at 12 o'clock and around the side support positions
- is there a starter knot on the main strings? If yes, this means the mains were done side-to-side
- correct tension? Consistent tension over several jobs? (measure ping frequency)

The most important thing for me is to get a feeling if the stringer was really taking care of the job and the racket or if he/she was only rushing through with it. Some crossovers on the outside will have pretty much zero effect on playability or durabilty, but if I see a job without crossovers, I just know that the stringer was actively trying to deliver a fine looking job and put some effort into that. If I look at an old school 72-hole frame and I see something like this "= = =" at around the 10 o'clock area, that just makes me happy.
Same goes for knots and the replacement of defective grommets.

Killer criteria would be a heavily deformed head or damages on the frame. Same goes for doing the mains side-to-side (indicated by a mostly superugly bulky and messy starter knot on the main strings). I also loathe people who give out a lower tension than ordered on purpose to trick clients into thinking that they can magically increase durability.