Directional split step

[ralphz]

That combined with the dodgy left ankle and I think I'm probably better off investing more in backhand. But I'll certainly be trying a few more things before going that route.

Another thing worth bearing in mind and this is almost never mentioned in tutorial videos but you see it if watching games.

When pro players do a clear or a drop, they do a different type of scissor kick to the one that they do when they do a smash.

For a clear or a drop, if doing a scissor kick, they just step back with the non racket foot. (rather than landing non-racket foot then racket foot). That can be easier on the body and save energy (presuming you're sufficiently behind it that having chosen to scissor kick, you aren't doing a jumping way back form of scissor kick. ('cos then stepping back probably won't take you far back enough).

I do know a player whose backhand significantly improved when they could no longer get the round the heads, due to a lack of speed.

I can imagine your lack of ankle dorsi-flexibility could be a major hindrance 'cos any moderately long lunge could require it. And if you wanted to just squat in a gym then you'd have some limitations. I don't know how my ankle dorsi flexibility compares to average, def not above average. But my plantar flexibility is terrible. When i've tried Judo and they were sitting on their feet (The Seiza), or BJJ where they require that flexibility for most forms of mount, I can't do it. Besides lack of flexibility in knee joint to get heel to butt.

I haven't played in a while due to an injury but one of the times I last almost sprained an ankle, I tried something a coach suggested and it saved the ankle from getting sprained. The coach said that if you feel the ankle is about to roll, then roll with it. I felt it and rather than trying to stand (Which is probably the mistake people make), what I did was I let myself go over, and my unconscious took over and I fell safely. It felt like I had a lot of time I even dropped my racket down as I fell.

I do have another idea though that could perhaps be done as a solution to an oncoming ankle roll. And would be super safe. One could perhaps lift the foot whose ankle is about to roll, and take a step out and in that step the ankle can be straightened. Curious what you think of that idea?

I once had a beginner level coach that gave some problematic advice of "Don't take that extra step",. Rather than looking at the root cause of why is that extra step happening. Sometimes the steps we take naturally serve an important purpose(like maintaining balance and preventing an ankle roll), and trying to stop such an extra step is or could be a hazard. It does look like you are very well aware of that and being sensible with it.

 

[Cheung]

Indeed, I worked on jumping into the deep forehand side over and over previously and that's not something I'm able to do at this point in time, let alone do a half smash and get into the net quickly. I'm not used to being late into corners but it's practically the norm now! The backhand I worked a lot on over the past year so it's not surprising that my recovery is much better that side.

Also the right rear corner at 0.10 if you look at the way I twist my left, this is to set me up to then pivot onto my right facing diagonally towards the net and jump. I just can't do the accompanying jump anymore as I'm not explosive enough, so I end up in a weird lunge position If I actually was going for a lunge I'd twist round more.

Looking at the video, for the rear forehand , you’re using two techniques for that corner. One is the China jump out and one is lunging into the corner and playing the safety shot.

For the China jump at 0.12, you land with most weight on the right foot. The correct technique is to land on both feet with weight 50:50 on each foot and sink your centre of gravity down a bit after landing.

At 0.10, you lunge into rear court forehand. Correct. It looks a bit weird because you need to take this shuttle later. You can’t do a China jump to go for this shot (even though your memory says you once were able to ）. To move to this corner, you need to first cross the left leg further behind the right leg more clearly, and then do the lunge.

After the shot, you run straight back to the middle without any split step (t’fore no rhythm) - running the middle means you have to cover each of the four corners with equal emphasis (no wonder you can’t make a directional split step). Your opponent hit it back to the same area making it quite hard for you. It’s better to just take one step back to the middle so that you can concentrate on three corners to cover - that’s a lot easier.

 

[Cheung]

That combined with the dodgy left ankle and I think I'm probably better off investing more in backhand. But I'll certainly be trying a few more things before going that route.

When you land on the round the head scissor kick, your left foot is pointing towards the net. That causes a lot of pain and instability. Try to work on landing with the left foot pointing approx 45 degrees outwards. If that’s also difficult, then it might be your injury issue limiting you.

 

[UkPlayer]

Looking at the video, for the rear forehand , you’re using two techniques for that corner. One is the China jump out and one is lunging into the corner and playing the safety shot.

For the China jump at 0.12,

I wouldn't classify 0.12 as a "technique", nor as a china jump. It's just me landing on my rear foot

Here I am doing the same thing but landing on both feet, because I'm not scrambling just to get the shuttle and my ankles not complaining.



Here's me trying to retrain my china jump a few months back

The correct technique is to land on both feet with weight 50:50 on each foot and sink your centre of gravity down a bit after landing.

Not sure what isn't clear about movement hindered by left ankle problem and that I have to put more weight on my right, which causes me a load of problems. This is the third time I've written it! Don't make me write it again

After the shot, you run straight back to the middle without any split step (t’fore no rhythm) - running the middle means you have to cover each of the four corners with equal emphasis (no wonder you can’t make a directional split step).

I'm not split stepping because I'm being pushed into a deep rear corner late into a game and not able to recover quickly. So by the time I've gotten near the middle the shuttles already going in a direction and I'm just trying to get there.

Here's what happens when I'm not being pushed into a deep rear corner late into a game, and I'm able to recover

Bear in mind the player many years younger and faster than me also, this isn't going to help my rythmn.

It’s better to just take one step back to the middle so that you can concentrate on three corners to cover - that’s a lot easier.

I get what you're saying but do you think it's possible for a shorter player in their late 40s with a dodgy ankle to take one step back to the middle out of a deep corner lunge like that without leaving the front corners completely exposed?

Just take a look at the video after I get out of the lunge, I'm behind the 3/4 court when the shuttle is hit, and I actually attempt a split.

But yes I need to find a way to recover better for sure. Whether that's physically possible or not is not something I'm sure of right now.

 

[UkPlayer]

I can imagine your lack of ankle dorsi-flexibility could be a major hindrance 'cos any moderately long lunge could require it. And if you wanted to just squat in a gym then you'd have some limitations. I don't know how my ankle dorsi flexibility compares to average, def not above average. But my plantar flexibility is terrible. When i've tried Judo and they were sitting on their feet (The Seiza), or BJJ where they require that flexibility for most forms of mount, I can't do it. Besides lack of flexibility in knee joint to get heel to butt.

Squat you can do with a raised heel. There's a lot of information on weight training adjustments for older people, including optimal programming, it's quite the opposite of badminton actually. Nobody would insist an older lifter use full ROM for example. I think it's because people take injury risk more seriously with weight lifting.

 

[UkPlayer]

Sometimes we should accept that the body can't keep up and try to work around the weaknesses. It's not that bad to use a backhand or play slower pace shots like clears (attacking clears can be deadly !) and drops instead of smashes.
Last year I had knee pain (right knee, preventing heavy lunge) and calves would cramp easily so I had to play a slower pace (not that I play much faster normally ). Here is an example :

Oh yes, I have much empathy for this situation

 

[ralphz]

I need to find a way to recover better for sure. Whether that's physically possible or not is not something I'm sure of right now

What would happen if when you do your lunge, you kept the whole sole of the back foot on the floor(without sliding it)?

And what would happen if when you did your lunge, you kept just the ball of the back foot on the floor(without sliding it)?

Are you pulling it in(sliding it in), for badminton technique reasons, or for reasons of physical limitations, or both?

I recall when I wasn't pulling it in at all, I was keeping the whole sole of the back foot on the floor. One coach I spoke to thought I should pull it in more though I didn't get a good reason other than that it'd look better, though I could've pushed further re reason re it. Another I spoke to thought ideally one wouldn't want it to come in and that it's only when one has to. Another I spoke to said if you are strong enough and fast enough to not need the back foot to come in then great, but they said some people lack the strength to get out of a lunge without the back foot coming in. I ran into a hamstring issue (for other reasons, not related to lunge technique), before getting the chance to delve into the finer mysteries of the back foot on a lunge. .

And I haven't experimented with this much but it may be worth distinguishing a case where the back foot slides in because your lunge ordinarily won't reach the shuttle, so you lunge with such momentum that your back foot slides in as you lunge(and that then feeds into the recovery). Vs, you lunge and can reach it and then purely for recovery after the lunge, you bring the back foot in.

Personally I can lunge far and get out of a lunge fast so lunging wasn't ever really a priority for me to work on in my game, so I never put a lot of focus on the intricacies of it when I trained.

 

[Cheung]

Here I am doing the same thing but landing on both feet, because I'm not scrambling just to get the shuttle and my ankles not complaining.



Here's me trying to retrain my china jump a few months back



Not sure what isn't clear about movement hindered by left ankle problem and that I have to put more weight on my right, which causes me a load of problems. This is the third time I've written it! Don't make me write it again

Thanks for isolating that clip of the China jump.

You're landing on both feet but the absorption of force on to the ground is on the right foot. I don't know how it is taught in England but here in HK, we teach that on landing, both the right foot and left foot have the toes pointing roughly 45 degrees and the weight distribution more towards 50:50. A lot of people learning the technique will land on the right leg a huge amount more - if you do this, keeping balance is a lot harder and needs a lot of right leg strength. Why do I write 50:50? because it's easier for the learner to understand to balance the weight distribution better.

If it's difficult to even land on the left foot with some weight on it, that's very difficult for playing singles. Perhaps some readjustment in expectations for playing competitive singles might be required before over compensation on your right leg leads to injury.

 

[UkPlayer]

Thanks for isolating that clip of the China jump.

You're landing on both feet but the absorption of force on to the ground is on the right foot. I don't know how it is taught in England but here in HK, we teach that on landing, both the right foot and left foot have the toes pointing roughly 45 degrees and the weight distribution more towards 50:50. A lot of people learning the technique will land on the right leg a huge amount more - if you do this, keeping balance is a lot harder and needs a lot of right leg strength. Why do I write 50:50? because it's easier for the learner to understand to balance the weight distribution better.

I mentioned several times already I have to put the weight on my right, hence why in that clip I'm trying to retrain it to put the weight on the right - and that's part of the reason why I'm not jumping into corners anymore.

If it's difficult to even land on the left foot with some weight on it, that's very difficult for playing singles. Perhaps some readjustment in expectations for playing competitive singles might be required before over compensation on your right leg leads to injury.

I acknowledged this in my first post..

"You can't apply standard footwork patterns to a non-standard body."

"Nobody has any answers for that, other than, maybe you just can't keep up with the level you want to play anymore"

This is the entire point of masters categories, you don't see many over 50s doing china jumps, and there's a lot of compensation for mobility issues going on.

Many older players have issues, and are still playing at a decent level. This is my challenge right now to work out what I can do with my body and what footwork I can actually use.

 

[UkPlayer]

What would happen if when you do your lunge, you kept the whole sole of the back foot on the floor(without sliding it)?

And what would happen if when you did your lunge, you kept just the ball of the back foot on the floor(without sliding it)?

Are you pulling it in(sliding it in), for badminton technique reasons, or for reasons of physical limitations, or both?

These are the sorts of questions I'm asking myself!

 

[Cheung]

Many older players have issues, and are still playing at a decent level. This is my challenge right now to work out what I can do with my body and what footwork I can actually use.

I agree for doubles but if singles where the court area is bigger, concerns about injury are a bigger concern for an unbalanced body. Get an injury and it will take longer to recover.

Actually, why did you take up singles again with your history of injuries?

 

[UkPlayer]

Actually, why did you take up singles again with your history of injuries?

Because I enjoy it. It's only when I've started playing singles again I've started going deeper into what my movement limitations are and what my body is capable of. Last tournament I played was over 20 years ago.

I'm just enjoying playing singles again. I'm perfectly capable of managing my own body.It's not like I've made a contractural committent to exclusively play singles with yonex or something, I also play doubles too.

Any expectations about me playing competitive singles at a level that's going to ruin my body seem to be coming from you, rather than me. I think you have a much higher definition of "decent player" than I do. If I fixed all the things you mentioned in your initial response to my video I'd probably be winning the WC 050 without much trouble. I'm not expecting to fix them all.

I agree for doubles but if singles where the court area is bigger, concerns about injury are a bigger concern for an unbalanced body. Get an injury and it will take longer to recover.

I think that's a dangerous assumption. O50 doubles, league doubles, low grade competition doubles, is also not some walk in the park where you can get away with moving slowly. There's some really dynamic players. And I've seen plenty of people get injuries playing doubles at the level I play at while I've remained free of injury for many years.

If anything I think the higher level of discipline towards my body and understanding of it I'm putting into the singles is going to make me less injury prone. I've played doubles matches recently which have stretched me more than singles games, but in a different way.

I think this is a bit like saying lifting heavy weights is dangerous but lighter ones aren't. Actually the biggest injury risk is not understanding what you're doing to your body and I think that's why doubles can be more dangerous in many ways. When it's just you on the court you find out what your body can really do, whereas doubles it's easier to get into a false sense of security about it. Same as people who lift lighter weights without correct form think that's less dangerous than lifting heavier ones with correct form, there's plenty of people who play singles with strict ways in which they'll move, but many playing doubles without proper understanding of their movement.

O50 singles its not played at a high tempo and as challenging for the body as you seem to think it is. There's a big masters circuit here and there are 70+ year olds that still compete. I don't think there are any players my age without some kind of limitation.

I did a timing test on the best O50 singles players, average rally was sub 8 seconds, average time between points was above 10 seconds. It's typically less than 4 stroke rallies with the odd longer one here or there.

Really if you don't want injury risk, don't play any sort of competitive badminton and take up hiking. Badminton is high risk for injuries whether singles or doubles. We are all running the gauntlet to do something we love, and much more so at this age.

 

[UkPlayer]

So this is from a main circuit tournament with lower grading over the weekend. Obviously went out early but after a few weeks back to properly training singles and not playing a singles tournament for over 20 years it went pretty well, and I felt more out of practice than out of depth.

When I'm not getting smacked around all over the place my rhythm is much better. One step recovery out of the corner, jump landing to the right pretty normal etc.

It's fast shots deep into corners which are problematic for me and I have to rework my footwork and strokes. My backhand is getting pretty strong so that's helping.

Also I saw the specialist who went over my whole body, everything is good apart from that left side due in part due to tight IT band, which we're going to work to loosen up. My glutes and quads are also tight. Continuing my program of general stretching and focusing on these specific areas should improve things a lot over the next few months.