Does less knots mean less tension loss?

If both are done properly, the number of knots does not have any noticeable effect on tension holding over time. See:

https://badmintoncentral.com/forums...riments-1-piece-vs-2-piece-and-others.188234/

In pretty much all experiments, the tension loss over time settled at around -10%. If you prefer a harder stringbed over time, you simply have to start at a higher tension.

 

But @kakinami style ≠ Yonex 4 knots pattern. The tie offs skip one hole more and the long way from the starter also skip additional 2 holes. So I think that the Yonex pattern is even worse due more untensioned string running around the frame.

I personally prefer the Haribito over the AK (sorry, Alan ) and the AK over the Yonex pattern.

IMO it also have some influence if the knot function is used and how close to the frame the string is clamped. Also some strings are known to lose tension quickly. What string do you use?

I can also agree with @s_mair. I strung my rackets in the last few years at a tension that they felt perfect when the were fresh but get a bit soft after 2-3 weeks. Now I increased by 0.5kg and they feel horrible on the first too sessions, but stay longer in the state I like when they are settled.

 

From testing with frequencies, and also just noticing how it plays the tension loss follows a pattern.

You will have tension loss in the first 24 hours of stringing, regardless if you play with it or not, no matter what. You will have some more tension loss the day after, but noticeably less compared to the first day, also regardless if you play with it or not, no matter what. Then you will have some tension loss after your first playing session as well.

If you want to test what tension you should string at, let the racket sit for a few days after stringing, use it for a session, and then truly evaluate if you like how it feels in your second session. That's the level the tension will stabilize at. Any tension loss after that will be much more slow and gradual.

If you like a stiff stringbed you might find that if you do this, it might not play so well during the first session because the tension is a little high.

 

I feel honored for the criticism =)
I think every stringer has their own style of steinging, that is why to me stringing is an artform. Someone's way is better to each person, criticism is always welcomed, it points out things where someone can improve or just accept the criticism, this is why many of the stringers here like @ucantseeme , @s_mair @DarthHowie @Alex82 @SIM YUN KIAT just to name a few, I feel experiment with their techniques and usually give feedback to other stringers, amateurs and pros, let them know their opinions and give feedback, sometimes with data to show why what they do is good. These guys I guess maybe I should say give constructive criticism, because unlike a UK stringer I know gives his feedback and usually would talk down to people because he probably thinks he is the best and you should never question his authority of his knowledge. Like as @ucantseeme said he prefers his way than my way, because he has tried both ways and can compare the differences. He has experimented with different patterns and found the one he likes. At least he has tried my pattern ( I think) and can give his constructive opinion, he is not sh*tting on me, but he knows because of trial and error. I respect his opinion and I am sure he respects mine, that is why most of the stringers here, I feel can be better teachers or mentors rather than some of the touring professional stringers. People here are down to earth, understand what a regular player might need rather than a pro stringer who only focuses on cranking out rackets at high tensions. When people give their opinions here, nowadays, most of these guys here are speaking to help other stringers, the guys I mentioned, I am sure there are more but they are out here to help other stringers, I feel. Of course I respect you liking Haribito over AK pattern, btw, I actually quit using AK pattern which I think I started maybe around 2009, because in 1 week I had 3 rackets snap on a knot at hole B9 where I tied off my mains, which was quite strange for me, and a Japanese amateur stringer maybe criticized my knot placement, not sure because I don't speak Japanese but it sounded like it. I took it in and decided to switch to the regular Yonex pattern, but I pull all my mains and use a modified Aerobite pattern at the end to tie on my cross. To me it is fun experimenting with different patterns, but I work in a shop and because of Yonex warranty, I need to do 4 knots. Everyone's opinions usually give good insight to stringing techniques, so I am always open to constructive criticism. Arigato!

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Dear Alan,

this is not meant as criticism. For me you are a master stringer and I'm still a novice/basement stringer. One of my dreams is to get a racket strung by you and just have talk about stringing. Sounds silly?

I discovered on my own rackets that the job feels longer crisp for me, when I strung Harbito compared to AK style. There is nothing wrong with your work and I string all my client rackets AK style to be consistent when I get hybrids or it becomes tricky to Harbito some patterns. Tbh my better half runs atm one racket AK Style and one Haribito and don't notice any difference. I also don't want to deny that I'm unable to produce the same quality as you maybe I'm unable to tie knots and make any other mistake which effect the result.

I also appreciate that you also tink around with starting clamp instead of starting knot or the zigzag and tie-off away from the center. I love to see somebody with your experience still optimizing. I still have a lot to learn.

I have the impression that the way of the loss from the knots with haribito needs a longer time to reach the sweet spot. I also guess that the crosses in the center are higher tensioned due less friction. Maybe this makes the change for me in my feeling? I don't know, maybe just a shady theory to justify me feeling? I want to hear your thoughts on that.

With all respect to you @kakinami

 

You see the pattern here (pun intended)? There is no magic formula in the stringing pattern to really improve the long term tension retention. In the end it all comes done to the elasticity of the string.

 

Criticism is not a bad thing. Sorry if you thought I was trying to talk down to you. Here in these forums especially with guys like you who I feel do their homework and back up what they say. I feel it is a good thing. Always speaking your opinion giving feedback and trying to help others in speaking up showing what you think is the best because of your trial and error as a player and a stringer. I feel some of the best stringers are 50% player and 50% stringer. You are as good of a player as a stringer. That is why I look up to you guys more, because I really suck as a player. I would maybe say I am 70% stringer and 30% player. So my feedback as a player can only go so far. If you feel your playing skills are better than your stringing skills, then your input as a player is even better in my opinion. When you guys give your opinions I weigh them to my stringing and if I can try them myselfand see if I can incorporate in my stringing. I want to keep learning in my craft, so when people call me a master or look up to me, I feel a bit silly, really I was at the right place at the right time. Really lucky, put my head in the machine and tried to show what I could do. In 1999 people were not trying to string rackets, people wanted to be spectators at badminton events. Getting off topic, I think some of the best stringers can give feedback, give opinions because they playtest the product they put out, they know what their customers are looking for and can backup their word from their knowledge of stringing and playing. Sorry if you took my last post as negative, it was meant to be positive, because I feel guys like you and @s_mair put a lot of effort in your data, backing things up and always giving positive opinions. When we had our friend Cooler back in the day who wanted to argue his opinions and think he was the S.H.I.T. (Super Hero In Training) I felt unproductive in his criticism, probably in the beginigh should have mentioned that your productive criticism in the begining. So again I look up to you guys more because of your playing ability is equal to or better than your stringing skills. If you feel your stringing skills are less than your playing skills I look up to you even more, because my playing skills are terrible. I cheat all the time, because they say if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying!

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Its really hard to objectively quantify “hardness” or tension loss of string bed because it also depends on the person perception. I have one customer complain string bed being soft strung with us and went to a different shop that outsource back to us and yet they claim it felt “better”.

Nonetheless, do what you liked best, and of course have a goal of continuous improvement in mind.

 

To add to all the points mentioned,
The weather also plays a factor. In the colder months, strings contract (shrink) making the tension a bit higher. And in the summer it does the opposite. I remember watching some videos back then that pro players lower their tension by 1-2lbs if they’re traveling to cold countries.