He BingJiao (何冰娇)

Discussion in 'China Professional Players' started by RedShuttle, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    You want to know when He Bingjiao is tiring and will soon be overcome by fatigue? Just watch for the following signs , any one or all of them:
    1) she is gasping for air , mouth open most of the time, almost agape;
    2) she struggles to cover the long diagonal even when she saw the return shot coming back;
    3) she stops smashing hard or it's getting few and far between.

    I mean, for most fit players, the above indications arise only when the rally is long and punishing, not to say when the match is grueling; for her it happens after a few short runs on court, and she doesn't recover from it after that. Just compare TTY with HBJ in G2 today on TV when there are close-ups, it's that obvious.

    Talking about the point no. 3, she does possess a powerful smash, probably the hardest hitter in WS, only Saina Nehwal can
    compare with her, not Carolina Marin or anyone else. Porntip or Yip Pui Yin maybe but I'm more interested in the top ranks.

    Frankly, I won't ever hope to see HBJ with six-pack abs like TTY, as long as she doesn't develop a paunch we should be thankful already, just flat abs and better stamina will do, enough to make me smile.
     
  2. robfitsy

    robfitsy Regular Member

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    Justin, you're starting to sound obsessive. To put it mildly.
     
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  3. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Don't worry, thanks for your concern. Badminton, as with one or two other of my favourite pastimes , is what I do for relaxation and to take a break from the really important things in life.

    Coming back to He Bingjiao, I have a love-hate relationship with her. And it'll remain so for as long as she doesn't resolve her fitness issue.;):p:D:(:)
     
  4. antssantss

    antssantss Regular Member

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    There is a danger of injury if too much stress is put on training. SN, NO and CM were possibly injured due to this factor. The CBA is careful about this I think. HBJ has improved so they are doing this by stages, imho.
     
  5. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    You may be right, He Bingjiao was slightly injured prior to the Uber Cup and had to stop training for two weeks which affected her performance in Bangkok according to Xia Xuanze.

    Which means her performance a month later at the MAS Open is not bad. I daresay, with justification as shown in G1 of the match, HBJ has the skills to take on TTY but not the fitness/stamina. In fact, in G2 of her match with Intanon Ratchanok the previous day, she's showing signs of fatigue already, so too Ratchanok.

    Right, we should give her some more time to build up her physique, I'm sure XXZ knows full well what is to be done.

    In that case, I have the feeling nobody would want to play HBJ in the early rounds of the Nanjing World Championships. It might even be a good thing for her to meet her strongest and fittest opponents in the earlier rounds and, hopefully, come up against a finalist who is also subject to the toll of accumulated fatigue for a more even fight, otherwise she might lose on fitness again.

    That said, I'm only speculating as there's no knowing how deep she can go at the Nanjing WC. Nevertheless, I have more confidence in her than Chen Yufei and certainly more than Chen Xiaoxin. Too bad, Gao Fangjie failed to make it to Nanjing, a floater who can cause a couple of upsets but not expected to be in contention for , much less, lift the title, at her current level.
     
  6. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    That HBJ lacks fitness is obvious. You don't need to write down WOT's to convice anyone - it's enough to take a look at that picture to see what's going on:
    [​IMG]

    What you see with HBJ is a perfect example of the interaction of talent and hard work. Racket skill wise, she has a lot of talent, there is no doubt about it. This is enough to strike some good results or even winning a top level tournament now and then if luck and the daily form is there. However, it won't be enough to play at the absolute top level consistently. You will have to realise that the sport is no just "only a sport" but your profession which requires hard work day by day by day by day. And that's exactly the moment that devides the good from the best.

    I think TTY was at a fairly comparable situation before and during and the '16 season. She scored a lot of one-match upsets and won a couple of SS(P) tournaments, but her performance was pretty incosistent. Before the '17 season it obviously clicked in her head, then came the hard work, the abs and now here she is with a winning streak of 24 matches and 4 consecutive tournament titles this season. Only time will tell if HBJ also finds that switch in her head and if she herself willing to push it. That is not something than can be forced on anyone externally from a coaching team or an association.
     
    #226 s_mair, Jul 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
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  7. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Right now I can see only two CHN WS who can beat TTY - He Bingjiao when she improves her physicality (or, perhaps, at least fresh enough), and Li Xuerui when she is fully match fit and in top form to regain her former prowess. The possibility is certainly there but to what degree of probability, I can only speculate at this moment. Let's wait and see.

    As for the rest of CHN WS, Chen Yufei is not that talented and has to work very hard to succeed , not there yet though getting closer - that's how hard work can beat talent but , I hasten to add, only if talent doesn't work hard enough.

    Gao Fangjie, Cai Yanyan, Wang Zhiyi, Chen Xiaoxin , all still young at 18/19/20 years old and are basically still relative newcomers in the pro circuit, having played too few top level tournaments to give us a reasonably good indication of how far they can go although they have each won some low level Int'l Challenge/GPG/WTS100/WTS300 titles, but the potential is there, only still too early to say. Therefore, I humbly reserve my judgement for now until I see a breakthrough achievement by any four of them in the (near) future. Now for the cliche, let time tell.
     
  8. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    He Bingjiao well enough to beat P V Sindhu in two straight sets in the QF of the INA Open WTS1000 event today, 21-14, 21-15, decisively.

    OK, next, I'm going to stick my neck out and say (something I seldom do, making predictions) - He Bingjiao to lose to TTY on fitness again tomorrow.

    Xia Xuanze must work on HBJ's fitness, improve her physique significantly and teach her how to stay totally focused and cut down on those unnecessary hand movements, esp when trying to play fanciful shots (the last part according to what XXZ and Zhang Ning said before).

    Really, really, high time to do something serious about it, no more lame excuses.
     
  9. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    If TTY can lose her baby fat in the past 2 years, so can HBJ.

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
     
  10. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    It's a matter of will and determination. I have serious concerns about both when it comes to HBJ's mindset towards badminton.

    I've watched the match against PVS yesterday and I was shocked. After one longer really around 9-5(?) in the first game, HBJ was already panting like a race horse (after having just won the big derby!). I wonder why not more of her opponents are able to exploit that crystal clear weakness.

    The result then against TTY today was not a surprise to put it mildly.
     
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  11. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Right, I couldn't agree with you more, it's that obvious, her face flushed crimson and panting fast and hard after just one long(er) not so grueling rally in the first half of the match.

    Just compare her physique with Akane Yamaguchi, who is shorter at 1.56m ( about 5' 1") as compared with HBJ's 1.72m (about 5' 6") and of similar build, on the plump side, yet AY is so much fitter and faster on court.
     
  12. RedShuttle

    RedShuttle Regular Member

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    First of all, HBJ should be congratulated on her successful comeback from injuries. There is hope after all Keep it up!

    In today's match against TZY, I think HBJ's game plan is just wrong. They are evenly matched on many aspects but TZY has a clear advantage in speed. HBJ should slow the game down and find her opportunities during longer rallies.

    Of course, HBJ's current fitness level may not support that Nevertheless, it's much easier to upgrade fitness level than speed. Until HBJ is equipped to execute the proper game plan, she will have trouble with TZY.

    Once again, congratulations to HBJ on making her way to the top echelon in WS.
     
  13. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    How I wish I could agree with you 100%. I'm sure Xia Xuanze has a gameplan for her against TTY as he did against P V Sindhu which HBJ carried out quite well.

    But as you said, in the final with TTY, HBJ simply didn't have the fitness and stamina to implement XXZ's instructions properly or fully as the accumulated fatigue taking its toll on her even before the match began was obvious, she was slow on her feet and made too many unforced errors.

    Yes, I absolutely agree with you that she has to build up her fitness and speed which I believe that alone can raise her game another level. Then XXZ can work on other aspects of her game to improve her technical skills further and enable her to realize her fullest potential to scale the summit.

    He Bingjiao has lots of talents and if she is willing to work hard as well, talent beats hard work every time. I daresay she has got what to takes to be best in the world.

    If the short, stocky Akane Yamaguchi can be so fit and move so fast, why not He Bingjiao ? I see no reason not, as s_mair said, if only she has the willpower and determination to do it. And, if I may add, the motivation as well. However, that's something nobody can help her except herself.

    Self-motivation works wonders.
     
  14. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    He Bingjiao, just look at how LCW is playing with Kento Momota now at the INA Open semifinals, a 35-yr-old playing like a 21-yr-old.:cool:

    And LCW's resounding victory over Kento Momota and playing a masterclass game was even more impressive, astounding.

    And, look at yourself, a 21-yr-old playing like a real 35-yr-old against TTY today.:(

    I mean, need I say that for a 35-yr-old, we can give the excuse that he's old and tired when he loses, but not for you.
     
    #234 Justin L, Jul 7, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
  15. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    According to the author (who claimed that's what he heard although it may not be 100% correct but the meaning is more or less right), the following is what transpired between He Bingjiao and Xia Xuanze during the G3 mid-interval :
    http://sports.sina.com.cn/others/badmin/2018-08-05/doc-ihhhczfa8429527.shtml

    At yesterday night's semifinal women's singles world championship match, He Bingjiao after winning the first set over Marin was overtaken by her afterwards. At the mid-game interval of G3, He Bingjiao and Singles Head Coach, Xia Xuanze, had a short exchange of words, somewhat a bit heated.

    In the decider when He Bingjiao was trailing 5 - 11 during the interval, He Bingjiao complained the spectators were too noisy and it affected her. Xia Xuanze immediately rebutted her, " The spectators shouted and you just lose it ? That's not very good !" He Bingjiao replied," I'll do my best, then."

    Xia Xuanze in turn said: " You play your game, what has the crowd's noise got to do with you?" At that moment, He Bingjiao used a towel to cover her face...

    In the face of his disciple's low fighting spirit, Xia Xuanze felt resentful towards her for failing to meet expectations and impatient to see improvement, and then called her out on it, " In that case, you quit, forfeit the match, ah. The audience shouted loudly, cheering, what happened to you ? Isn't it very normal ? Earlier on they shouted, didn't you win it (the first set)? Think more on how to play the opponent, what tactics to play. You think it's so easy, uh."
     
    #235 Justin L, Aug 5, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
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  16. racketman123

    racketman123 Regular Member

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    That was a very strange moment indeed
     
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  17. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Wow, if that conversation did indeed happen like this, that's a masterpiece of poor coaching.
     
  18. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    At the Nanjing World Championships, I was first elated with He Bingjiao defeating the most formidable Tai Tzu Ying unexpectedly in three sets, the first and third set were remarkably well played by her despite the second set loss by single digit score.

    Then at the semifinal with Marin who was in terrific form bulldozing her previous three opponents, when HBJ won the first set beautifully, to use Gillian Clark's words, I was pleasantly surprised and had my hopes suddenly lifted only to see her followed it up with her dispirited performance the next two sets, although in G2, when trailing badly by as much as 5-15, she fought her way back to close the gap to 13-17 before losing it by a respectable score of 16-21. The deciding 3rd game tiebreaker was worse as she was seen during the interval to be on the verge of tears for reasons which I came know later, it was downhill all the way for her.

    In other words, it was mixed feelings for me as far as her overall performance is concerned, like a rollercoaster ride.

    I don't wish to say too much, most of which I've expressed in the relevant tournament thread, except to appeal to her for the umpteenth time, to please work harder on improving her physique. Her sub-optimal physical condition has been a stumbling block to her progress, stymying her talents from reaching the fullest potential. It will be such a huge shame if she ends up a big wasted talent.

    Yeah, she's still only 21, give her more time. It's been two years since she last won anything notable, in the Japan Open followed by the French Open , both Superseries titles in 2016. After that, due to some injury concerns, not severe, her results were one disappointment after another until this one month or so, beginning with the MAS Open WTS750 runner-up, followed by the INA Open WTS1000 semifinals finish, and ending with bronze medal at the just-concluded Nanjing World Championships 2018 on home soil.

    That her lack of fitness and stamina are the reasons repeatedly attributed for her lackluster results as expressed by various coaches , sportswriters and commentators, both local and abroad, have now become a tired refrain.

    My worry is, now that Head Coach Xia Xuanze has this past month been taking personal charge of her coaching in the absence of Zhang Ning who was rumoured to have handed her resignation to take responsibility for Team CHN's fiasco at the Uber Cup in Bangkok, what further actions, remedial or otherwise, will he take on her from now on?

    As I've posted above, that incident between him and HBJ at the semifinal match with Marin, is unprecedented for Xia Xuanze who is well-known to be always even-tempered and remarkably patient with his charges, in fact, with everyone he interacts with in his day-to-day life. Just think about it.
     
  19. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Looks like it's hard to instil some fighting spirit in some players.

    When the going gets tough, the tough get going...which didn't happen here.
     
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  20. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I won't say that, XXZ's patience must be tested , that's probably not the first time HBJ has pushed the limit for XXZ and Zhang Ning as well as other coaches, all of whom must have been sincerely trying their best in heart-to-heart talks, pep talks, whatever.

    I would say it's an accumulated thing, the coaches, esp Zhang Ning and Xia Xuanze, really meant well and are anxious to help her succeed.

    Remember, in the 2nd set with Marin, He Bingjiao felled and nearly injured herself, was seen holding to her knees in pain for a while, and XXZ appeared extremely worried, his face showing distress. Also in the run-up to the Uber Cup, she was also injured and had to rest for two weeks, which affected her performance then. It can be pretty stressful for the coach , you know.

    Anyway, after that incident above, at the post-match conference,He Bingjiao looked to be in good mood, according to the author of the article I posted. Apparently, she and XXZ have gotten over it.
     
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