IN or OUT?

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by kwun, Sep 19, 2004.

?

IN or OUT?

  1. IN!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. OUT!

    1 vote(s)
    100.0%
  1. GameGod

    GameGod Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    None
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That is out because the shuttlecock head is not touching the line - the shadow from the head is. You can tell even from the low quality of the photo.
     
  2. drew tze en

    drew tze en Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    3
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    London
    that looks in though !!
    if it touches the line it is in
     
  3. allyjack110

    allyjack110 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2010
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    3
    Occupation:
    University Graduate (History)
    Location:
    Scotland
    What would happen if the cork misses the back-line but the feathers touch the line? If any part of the shuttle hits any part of the line, shall that be deemed in or out? I would have to be a very flat shot!!! I have always thought that the cork was the determining factor since it is usually the cork that touches the surface first.
     
    #143 allyjack110, Sep 6, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2011
  4. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,889
    Likes Received:
    84
    Location:
    UK
    I'd like to see the shot that landed feather first near the back line. wowsers.

    It is physically impossible unless you can tumble the shuttle that far
     
  5. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    [0,0,0]
    Then it's in. You should always be sure if you are going to call 'out'.
     
  6. Koyori

    Koyori Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Central
    Seem to be "in".
     
  7. nightin9ale

    nightin9ale Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    Is the shuttle in or out?

    If the round head part of the shuttle is outside the line, but the tails/feathers of the shuttle hit the line, is it considered in or out? Thanks.
     
  8. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,889
    Likes Received:
    84
    Location:
    UK
    it is practically impossible for that situation to happen.

    where ever the shuttle first makes contact with the ground is the point to consider. There is nothing in the rules stating that it must be the cork's contact point with the floor.
     
    #148 amleto, Jul 16, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2012
  9. phili

    phili Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    825
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Germany
    It is not that unlikely. Had it in a tournament a few weeks back.
     
  10. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,889
    Likes Received:
    84
    Location:
    UK
    It is highly unlikely. The shuttle would probably have to be totally inverted and spinning at a high rate around its natural axis.
     
    #150 amleto, Jul 16, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2012
  11. Alapongtai

    Alapongtai Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    SoCal
    When i got line judging not too long ago, they told me its out if the cork touches outside the line regardless of where the feathers touch
     
  12. phili

    phili Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    825
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Germany
    Ehm no. For example if you do a mid-court drive that gets a little long or with point smashes this can happen.
     
  13. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,889
    Likes Received:
    84
    Location:
    UK
    mid court drive is never going to end up with feathers touching down first. or a point smash
     
  14. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2011
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Smashikon, Driveland
    i think the cork always touches the ground first. this point has to be considered. correct me if i'm wrong...
     
  15. phili

    phili Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    825
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Germany
    I guess you didn't read carefully enough ;)
     
  16. Line & Length

    Line & Length Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2010
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Worcestershire
    Don't know what angle the tangent between cork head radius and skirt extremity makes with a shuttle's axis. However, if the shuttle hits the ground whilst traveling at a shallower angle, by definition it will glance feathers first.

    I have had the situation once. It came from a bodged net kill which went (at pace) about 10-15 degrees below horizontal. Thankfully both feathers and cork were out, so there was no controversy.

    Can we at least agree that the situation is rare but possible?

    As for the actual question, amleto is correct. There is no specific mention to part of shuttle, so I'd go for whatever touches first.
     
  17. Chayady

    Chayady Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Clementi
    Correct!! :)
    Just see the cork, don't bother to see the feather.

    Even there is a very super slim possibility that the feather might be touching the floor first, it is still the cork that count.
     
  18. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,889
    Likes Received:
    84
    Location:
    UK
    It doesn't matter what kind of drive it is. If it's from midcourt, it aint landing in without hitting the cork first.
     
  19. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,363
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    UK
    Not possible with a drive within the space of a badminton court. Angle from top of net to backline is greater than angle of cork edge to skirt edge so even if hit at a million miles per hour it's not possible.
     
  20. Line & Length

    Line & Length Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2010
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Worcestershire
    Sad I know, but I thought it would be fun to work it out:

    Height of a badminton net is 1.55m at the posts (rule 1.10), so let us say shuttle is 1.60m from the ground. Half-length of court is 6.7m, so the angle is the arc-tangent of the ratio, which comes out at 13.43 degrees. However, the diagonal of a half-court (Pythagoras of 6.7 and 6.1m) is 9.061m, which similarly gives an angle of 10.01 degrees.

    Taking the smallest skirt diameter of 58mm (rule 2.2.3), the longest feather length of 70mm (2.2.2) and the largest base diameter of 28mm (2.2.5) (via the arc-sine of the ratio of difference in radii to the length of the feather), I get a half-angle of 12.37 degrees. This is greater than the straight drive angle but not the cross.

    Similarly, taking the average of the values quoted in the the 3 shuttle rules, I get 16.05 degrees, which is greater than even the straight drive. Finally, taking the most optimistic values, the half-angle is 20.29 degrees, which is well over both.

    I would therefore argue that it is technically possible for a shuttle's feathers to land 'in' whilst the cork is 'out', albeit very unlikely.
     

Share This Page