Lee Chong Wei ( 李宗伟 )

Discussion in 'Malaysia Professional Players' started by tbleong, Jan 8, 2007.

  1. badlove

    badlove Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    Messages:
    1,112
    Likes Received:
    319
    Occupation:
    Court Cowboys
    Location:
    Indonesia
    Ang mo literally mean red hair. You don't see why they easily raised ang mo card if they had trauma in how they were treated in the past.

    Add a few young ang mos that added the flame and criticized LCW and his junior relationship on podcasts. You don't have any idea how their parents were treated in the past . But you dare say LCW treat his junior bad?
     
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    21,252
    Likes Received:
    2,989
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    It is not that. It is the inability to consider other alternatives and perspectives.

    As a moderator, I think for this particular 'ang mo' issue can go into circular arguments especially without substantive evidence.

    Therefore, let's get back to discussing more related issues to LCW first.

    Mod
     
    #13122 Cheung, Mar 13, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  3. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,034
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    It's not that LCW treats his juniors badly. It's that the juniors naturally feel intimidated by his presence and star power. When he asks you to feed him or play 3 vs 1 against him, how can you dare say no? Eventually it'll wear down on your self esteem and self belief. Just like LD in team China. That's what MF was talking about. What's good for LCW is not necessarily good for the developing juniors. And MAS desperately need to develop their juniors.
     
    badlove likes this.
  4. badlove

    badlove Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2016
    Messages:
    1,112
    Likes Received:
    319
    Occupation:
    Court Cowboys
    Location:
    Indonesia
    LD was also once junior of XXZ,XJP, etc. Chen Long was LD's junior but emerged as a star.

    LCW once was junior too. Taufik was once junior of Hendrawan too. Momota was junior of Tago but surpassed him too.

    It's a cycle, but when you can deliver, you deliver. LCW is not the excuse they don't have star junior, and could not be held accountable. If you are no longer good like KKK TBH it make sense to give way for stronger junior like TWK GVS. But LCW different story and still going strong. You actually have to battle with rest of world to be the best. If they mental are already weak and intimidated against LCW, they might as well give up to be a champion.
     
  5. Forestal

    Forestal Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    340
    Location:
    Singapore
    There was no sound, no expression, and he just raised his arms to the audience on Chou's side, not Chou himself-- Chou Tien Chou had already turned away in his failed attempt to return the shot, and merely looked back to confirm that Lee had gotten the point.

    I would not even have a reason to give LCW a verbal warning if I was the Umpire sitting right between Lee and Chou.

    All you social justice snowflakes/ warriors wannabes can just give it a rest-- the rules are against intimidating/influencing your opponents/judges outside of play, not bad manners... that's when barking or gesturing at your opponents/judges will be punished, not when it's "rude/ discourteous"
     
    #13125 Forestal, Mar 14, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  6. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    6,201
    Likes Received:
    1,469
    Location:
    Germany
    But it's possible that they changed the training a bit over time to accomodate LCW, since he was the first Malaysian to have a real chance at Olympic Gold, and after 2010, their only chance at a WC title as well. I doubt past players had long 3v1 sessions, and somehow I dont see LCW feeding the junior players shuttles or playing 3v1 drills for 3 of them. While that is all speculative, so is any claim that they're all treated equally in training, we just cant know.
    What we do know is that LCW didnt show the best behaviour in the media with his MF statements, and MF held back politely.
    The theory that MF is trying to hold back LCW to help Axelsen is completely laughable, btw. He has a job and takes that job seriously, if Denmark's badminton association want him to help VA they'll have to hire him as a coach, otherwise he'll spend his time doing his best to develop Malaysian badminton.
    Pulling MF's nationality into this indicates nationalistic tendencies on the accuser's part, nothing else.
     
  7. livewire

    livewire Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Malaysia
    in my opinion there is something wrong in the mas ms single department setup/training methods

    back in 2007... l think there are several good ms player wongchoonhan, roslinhashim, hafizhashim, leetsuenseng... and of course LCW (l think all of them almost on par with each other)
    10 years later... its only LCW... current player limcheeweing, iskandar, sooteckzhi... and before that we have liewdarren, chongweifeng, ariflatiff, gohsunhuat and as we know none of them have yet to make it big (that's not my concern tho)

    but... l do have problem with how they play... which is slow and seems very laid back
    why they can't play like chenglong? and the latest is choutienchen (during the first set of all england semi)?
    previously, LCW can easily toying with chenglong... but now chenglong can return back anything LCW throws at him (some of them with interest)

    l do think the juniors are for LCW benefits only... and probably frost can see this too and want to make some change... but as of now LCW disagree and the rest is history
     
  8. Forestal

    Forestal Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    340
    Location:
    Singapore
    LCW has always had complaints/dissatisfication with BAM in the past, especially when interviewed China's media-- though it might just be him being kind/ diplomatic, in showing how "jealous" he is about China or other countries' resources-- so it's not just an issue with Morten Frost per se, but the way BAM resources are generally organised/ allocated...

    Because M'sia is sort of in-between China/Indonesia, where they get/have all the resources they need at home, and Denmark/England, where you definitely need to import foreign resources and/ or else go abroad for training if you want to get to the top...

    E.g. Can M'sia afford/find training partners/ coaches for Goh Liu Ying/ Chan Peng Soon and Tan Wee Kiong/ Goh V Shem, who already top players in M'sia but still inconsistent in the SS circuit? AND THEN STILL afford to pay for a full-time training/sparring partner for Lee Chong Wei who plays on the level of Lee Chong Wei?

    Cos Shi Yuqi was one of China's sparring/training partners for Lin Dan and we all saw how that turned out for China! Even if Chen Long and Lin Dan become sparring partners and one of them consistently beats each other, there is now no certainty that they will be a match for Lee Chong Wei...
     
    #13128 Forestal, Mar 14, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  9. FeatherBlaster

    FeatherBlaster Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2014
    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    321
    Location:
    Denmark
    And exactly how is it that your friends evaluate the situation? With neutral and objective observations? No, the stuff you write are so far out. MF don't want to retire LCW after the OG, but he's been hired to do a job, which consists of more than going all out for LCW. He's been hired to NOT put all the eggs in one basket. And LCW don't want that, he wants full focus on himself to perform well. He sort of got what he want (a special setup, not having to deal with MF), even from a very early point.

    You make it sound like MF didn't change the mats in order to injure LCW. What a load of crap. First of all, the mat problem went like this: LCW -> Hendrawan -> BAM Directors/MF. So many people in that chain. And it's professional badminton mats for crying out loud, it's not an ice rink. In other countries they play semi-professional tournaments on those mats, so how dangerous can they be... You cannot blame MF for not stepping up over Hendrawan and BAM Directors and ordering a professional mat changed immediately, because otherwise injuries will occur.

    Now, here comes LCW, claiming his knee injury will make him miss AE. (and it doesn't matter if he actually thought it was so bad, or if he exaggerated the injury - what he said matters). MF then asks Hendrawan (because LCW will not talk directly to MF), if he thinks the injury is so severe, that it could spell the end of LCWs career. A valid and perfectly relevant question at the time. He did not ask him to retire, he just asked for the severeness of the injury - it's two very very different things.

    Claiming that MF has taken the job, only to ruin Malaysian badminton, and make things easier for Axelsen, is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time... If he wanted to pave the way for Danish players, Malaysia would probably not be the right country to derail (sigh).

    Now, your Malaysian friends - who apparently see all white people as oppressive conspirators - translates that to MF asking for LCW to retire? It seems that no matter what happens, these "Kampong talk" type fans will ALWAYS take LCWs side, will ALWAYS see foreigners as a bad thing, and will simply not see facts, but tell stories to stir up things and make their case.

    Here's the deal:

    If LCW can bring in medals, by all means, MF is happy with that! The more medals to Malaysia, the better. Fans will be happy, BAM will be happy, government will be happy. It will mean more money and resources to badminton, and it will mean happy fans and media, thus less tough questions for the coaches and directors. Malaysian success (no matter from which players it come) will also make it easier to attract better foreigners to the purple league, and better foreigners to the Malaysian training camps as sparring partners.

    On the other hand, MF will not be completely derailed by LCW and Malaysian belief that LCW is the person to generate medals in 2020 and past that date. He simply has to do his job, which is to develop Malaysian badminton as a whole. It's obvious that ultimately LCW and MF will have conflicting interests, but nothing that should not be able to get sorted out. It is in the interest of Malaysian badminton to make it work for MF and all the upcoming juniors, etc. They have hired foreigners to change the badminton training culture, and get inspired by countries who get so many more results with smaller talent base and budgets.

    This is my last reply to posts of such low quality - I simply will not spend my time on such stupid discussions with people who have such biased and preconceived stands. It's not interesting to me. What's interesting is to discuss what's actually going on, how the different countries are trying to develop their talents, what works and what doesn't work. New ideas and setups, etc. Not if all white people are ang mo with hidden agendas...
     
    #13129 FeatherBlaster, Mar 14, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
    alien9113 and khoai like this.
  10. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    6,201
    Likes Received:
    1,469
    Location:
    Germany
    The issue with how I perceive the current training situation is that some of the junior players are basically 'playing coaches', i.e. young enough so they can do all the drills etc for LCW that his coaches cant, but they dont get developed as well as they could if they got some more focus. And I think MF saw that and wanted to change it.
    It would fit, LCW seems to have grown used to his status as Malaysia's only hope and resource and all the privileges that come with it, and MF trying to revoke some of those might have caused his tantrum in the media.

    Idk, it's all very speculative, since I lack the information on how their training is actually structured. Maybe I'm completely and utterly wrong about this.
     
  11. Forestal

    Forestal Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    340
    Location:
    Singapore
    That's how you should have started whenever someone starts postinga link or saying "someone says"-- it's all just hearsay/ gossip/ opinions, so just don't read/ reply if you're not interested....

    "Refuting" such hearsay/ gossip/ opinions in these forums with anything else other than "it's just hearsay/ gossip/ opinions" is a waste of effort, as those hearsay/ gossip/ opinions will continue floating around IRL as long as there are people want to hear those hearsay/ gossip/ opinions....

    I mean, if even CNN/ WSJ/ etc can report fake news and deflect all criticisms with "but I heard that...", then there's no reason to expect fans of this, that or the other player or theory can't do it.
     
  12. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    2,805
    Likes Received:
    247
    Location:
    HK
    I understand some Malaysian's point of view when they protect LCW because perhaps MF, however right he maybe regarding coaching programs, lacks in respect for LCW and more generally local people, not because he wants to, but perhaps because culture is different.
    Maybe also MF knows all that, have tried to do some change with LCW backing him but it did not work, who knows, and had finally to adopt more brutal method like cutting the juniors from LCW or else.
    In any cases, the fact that many foreign coaches have been hired by BAM but not for long suggest that politics is determinant in BAM.
     
  13. FeatherBlaster

    FeatherBlaster Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2014
    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    321
    Location:
    Denmark
    To clear some misunderstandings.

    It's not MF who has said these things about LCW and the respect and the other national players (now being referred to as juniors). It was HKV in the VA & HKV podcast. And they were not talking about juniors feeding shuttles, they were talking about other players having to wipe LCW's sweat off the floor for him, etc.

    Anyway, MF do have respect for LCW, he was the coach to originally tell BAM to go with LCW...

    Cheers,
    FB
     
    #13133 FeatherBlaster, Mar 14, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  14. Forestal

    Forestal Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    340
    Location:
    Singapore
    That's kind of what makes LCW so special/ strange to a lot of fans-- he's not as so influential that he can simply call the shots like Lin Dan, and not so meek as Chen Long to submit to all of Li Yongbo's dictates...

    The idea of a professional athlete playing at the level of Lin Dan and having the difficulties that Brice Leverdez had with his national team, often boggles the minds of most sports fans-- I guess they forget the BWF only governs the rules of international competition and not the worldwide sports INDUSTRY... aside from the players, the national associations themselves are also competing within/ amongst/ themselves to create the best environment for their sport
     
  15. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    21,252
    Likes Received:
    2,989
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    no, not the case. It's the refusal to accept alternative and perfectly plausible explanations
     
  16. Forestal

    Forestal Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    340
    Location:
    Singapore
    All I can say is that LCW and MF have behaved more professionally than some of their fans-- which is something their fans should take note when playing social justice warrior/ virtue-signalling... while the media is laughing all the way to the bank.
     
  17. FeatherBlaster

    FeatherBlaster Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2014
    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    321
    Location:
    Denmark
    On the topic of on court behaviour. I think it was SO GOOD to see these emotions from LCW. It was not over the line IMHO, and badminton needs these moments and characters so show some determination and pride.

    As long as they don't go too much in the face of the opponent, I think we should welcome a little bit of entertainment.

    We need players to love and hate.

    Often it is the fans who gets upset, not the opposing players on court. Perhaps the fans should reflect on that.

    Even in the borderline case of Marin, by far the most opponents are OK with her screaming, they are not bothered.

    Cheers,
    FB
     
    Cheung and renbo like this.
  18. FeatherBlaster

    FeatherBlaster Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2014
    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    321
    Location:
    Denmark
    His critics has often called him a robot and things like that. Now he show emotions and pride, and that's also wrong... Hard to satisfy your opponents fans I guess.

    And that goes for all players.

    Cheers,
    FB
     
    #13138 FeatherBlaster, Mar 14, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  19. Forestal

    Forestal Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    340
    Location:
    Singapore
    Huh, not the case with what? CNN/ WSJ/ etc? They are after all the MSM who set the standards for journalism/ truth which the masses are expected to follow?

    Lol, are you denying the right/ability of others (like the CNN/ WSJ/ etc) to deny the truth, whenever they feel like it?

    Of course, the way alternative media (and Trump) is killing MSM is by simply ignoring/ bypassing them-- and thankfully, these forums have a ignore function, which I use very liberally... e.g. the only way I am still salt-mining the LD fans is not from their original posts, but the replies by you guys...
     
  20. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    21,252
    Likes Received:
    2,989
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    It sounds like you are starting to confabulate.

    What I am saying is that there is some information at hand. Yet, one must consider plausible explanations rather than one track into just one and only one explanation. If people cannot see the other or plainly refuse to acknowledge such existence, then this is certainly a difficult position and certainly 'fanboy' behaviour.
     

Share This Page