Lin Dan ( 林丹 )

Discussion in 'China Professional Players' started by seawell, Oct 29, 2004.

  1. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    Okay so in short you want to hero-worship Srikanth and dont really know what youre talking about...? Because stating that Srikanth is more deceptive overhead than LD in his prime is pretty laughable to be quite frank. Even former elite players, when commentating, could not say what shot he was gonna play next....at all. No one is saying Srikanth doesnt have variation, but he is less deceptive (in that area, at least).
     
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  2. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

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    Buddy, let's just lay the hate to rest
     
  3. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    They werent as fast. The changes in direction were slower, as were the smashes. Defensive movements may have increased only marginally, but the big movements (jumps, moving the entire diagonal,...) have gotten a lot faster. There was a video showing LCWs footwork from the side in about 2009, I believe, if you think those guys could have matched that then you dont perceive reality as the vast majority does.
    Actually went and looked up the video myself, here it is:
     
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  4. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

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    I don't hero worship Srikanth man, if I worship anyone, it is the god of badminton, LIN DAN :) It isn't laughable, watch the Australia Open Final with CL, CL had no idea where any of SK's shots were going, the same thing happened with him and Prannoy in Indonesia (Prannoy is also hella deceptive overhead), CL had no idea where anything was going, whether it was backcourt or front court.

    Deception for any shot has three sources (It varies by situation how important each factor is, but these are the fundamental pieces)
    Same prep for every shot
    # of Variations
    Agression and approach of the shuttle


    LD has the same prep for every shot, but the two players I just mentioned (and various others) have a higher number of variations. However, LD is separated by his agressive approach to the shuttle (In his prime), however, SK and Prannoy has a similar sort of aggressive approach to the shuttle as well, which is why they are so lethal overhead. Look at Gade, he was a pioneer of overhead variation, hella aggressive to the shuttle, and had the same prep for every shot, PG, TH, LCW, LD, were all hella deceptive overhead because of the three aforementioned factors.

    Further proof, LCW was never really known for his "Overhead deception" (Gill Clarke mentions it a lot, even as recent as 2017 Worlds in the Leverdez match, you can hear Steen Pedersen mention it in the early part of the first game (start watching from like 3 points in) after Chong Wei fires a FH cross smash) until his prime starting in 2010, why? Because he was way less aggressive before that, so he was losing out on deception because of the approach, but once he started using his speed to attack and have an aggressive approach to the shuttle, behold: Overhead deception galore.

    It isn't like LD is using some magic technique, it is just sound fundamental badminton (And believe me man, that in itself is an achievement)
     
    #10384 Anand S, Nov 6, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  5. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

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    LCW is the fastest player of all time, he doesn't represent the general speed of the game


    Pretty much the same speed, maybe SLIGHTLY LESS than LCW(Like I explained, the dude is THE FASTEST PLAYER EVER, and by a long shot too {Which on this level is quite small}, but for sure as fast or faster than ANYONE today, including LD (Ardy is definitely faster than LD, particularly in the defence
     
  6. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

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    This was the effort that Ardy ALWAYS put on defence, name me one player outside of the big three who can pull something like this off on a consistent basis, who is that hungry for the shuttle

    pretty much the same speed as today's game, actually faster than a lot of modern matches to be quite honest
     
  7. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    Mentioning Prannoy as superior in that regard doesnt exactly help your case :D I really dont think he is a match for 'prime' LD in any aspect of the game, much less one that was LD forte (and still is, largely).
    It's not just the preparation thats similar, the whole movements are almost entirely the same. No way anybody right in their mind thinks Prannoy is better than that, and even Srikanth, most everybody will consider inferior.
     
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  8. latecomer

    latecomer Regular Member

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    It is hilarious for a few grown ups arguing with a 16 years. I have yet to see an adult winning an argument against a16 years old arrogant boy.
     
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  9. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

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    He isn't a match to prime LD physically, but he is definitely in that overhead skills, and perhaps at the net too, but everything else that matters in the game, LD is superior
     
  10. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

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    I explained where deception comes from, read it carefully, in his prime LD had such overhead deception, because he was aggressive with his approach and had the same prep on every shot. he also had all the basic Overhead variations (He added more as he got older, right now he is at his best in terms of overhead variation). It is Sound fundamental badminton

    SK does all the same things as prime LD-agression (Gade was mentioning how awesome SK's pure aggression is), same prep on every shot, with even more variation, of course he has better overhead deception.

    Prannoy is about the same as LD in terms of Overhead deception, analyze the factors I just provided, they are fundamental components of badminton

    AGAIN: Differences on this level are so minuscule, they don't really warrant that much discussion like this
     
  11. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    Looks like Vittinghus. Inefficient. VA is already superior in his defensive movement, not to mention LD, LCW, CL,...
    Superior speed, less falling down. Looks more impressive from the sideline, but I didnt want to comb through a 90 minute match for that particular rally. LD shows he is very much faster than Ardy, just look at how he saves that attempted kill to his deep forehand.
     
    #10391 j4ckie, Nov 6, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  12. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    How better was the camera work
     
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  13. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    Okay keep preaching that in the Indian badminton thread, maybe someone will believe you there. Prannoy must be so deceptive I didnt even see how great he was.
     
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  14. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

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    I never put Prannoy in LD's class, LD is so great because he has everything so fundamentally sound down to his physique (What A BODY, WOOOOH), there are players with one or two things better, but no one has the package quite like LD, all wrapped up with a killer will

    AGAIN: the differences at this level ARE SO SMALL
     
  15. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

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    If they shot badminton matches like this, that would be SO AWESOME :)
     
  16. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

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    Ardy was way more efficient than Vittinghus man, he was able to beat top players when he was out of his physical prime (He beat Dong Jiong in 1999 worlds first round, well after he had retired, and WELL past his prime in the early 90's, which shows he had great footwork technique (If it was simply physicality, he wouldn't have been able to keep up, because his physicality was gone by then) Ardy did that deep FH thing so well and conistently, and it takes a hell of a lot of speed and technique to do, I have rarely seen players do it nowadays with that sort of quality
     
  17. GingerCorslette

    GingerCorslette Regular Member

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    2011 WC
    3rd game. From down 19-20 to eventually winning it.

    2012 OG
    3rd game. Down 18-19 to eventually winning it as well.

    Those moments are what makes LD and badminton as a sport great and fun to watch. No one will ever make you feel the same, at least no one yet.
     
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  18. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

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    Mental strength and hunger to win show through always, saving those three match points in Rio (Especially the last one) is another memory I will always remember from LD
     
  19. RC47

    RC47 Regular Member

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    Imagine if everyone stopped replying to Anand and we let him talk to himself, what a sight that would be (and we would get some peace and quiet in these threads).

    Then again, I fully expect him to start arguing with himself if it ever happens.
     
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  20. Fortune

    Fortune Regular Member

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    crap.
    the one with superior technical skills will dominate the competition most of the time.
    and now you can combine the number of titles by top 3 out of 5 MS above, and I'm sure LD win more titles.


    LD skills improve a lot.

    young LD is only a smash machine.
    when his smash is not working, very likely he will lose.

    this is when LD vs Gade (2005 World Championships)
    look at 3 : 45
    net winners :
    LD 8
    PG 23



    and you can compare his net play when he play against Taufik Hidayat.
    7 - 1 for LD in G1 Thomas Cup 2010 (no data for G2)

    23 : 35





    nonsense.
    even right now Srikanth never won against LCW, and still negative to LD...
    what about the other Indian players records against LD / LCW ?
    no need to tell.


    and how many Indian players in top 10 right now ?
    only 1.
    even their best player only ranked number 2 lol
    http://bwfbadminton.com/rankings/2/...es/2017/44?rows=25&page_no=1&player1_id=93627

    why only 1 player in top 10 ?
    if Indian player has better technical skills than the Chinese including LD, surely we will see more Indian players in top 10 or even top 8 right now...just like China MS at the end of 2004 OG qualification period...
    world #1, #2, #3, #7 and #8
     
    #10400 Fortune, Nov 6, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
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