Lin Dan ( 林丹 )

[j4ckie]

Of course there is something fundamental about it, he is walking badminton technique, every motion of his is so fundamentally sound, just like LCW, CL, TH, Gade, they are all SO fundamentally sound. All these guys do the same fundamental overhead motion, LD's deception in his prime came from addressing the shuttle early, with the same preparation everytime (More in the case of his later ones), it is just sound fundamental badminton. SK has much better overhead deceptions than LD, because he has more variations, have you seen this guy hit overheads, he has so many variations and you have no idea about the shot that is coming at all. LD can keep shot quality under pressure, because he is one of the most fundamentally strong players there has ever been

Okay so in short you want to hero-worship Srikanth and dont really know what youre talking about...? Because stating that Srikanth is more deceptive overhead than LD in his prime is pretty laughable to be quite frank. Even former elite players, when commentating, could not say what shot he was gonna play next....at all. No one is saying Srikanth doesnt have variation, but he is less deceptive (in that area, at least).

 

[Anand S]

then please say 'I have watched enough bla bla bla', and show what you got. not necesserily bloating yourself in an open forum and you then basically said that you know more things than everybody in this forum because you already watched more matches than everybody in this forum

Buddy, let's just lay the hate to rest

 

[j4ckie]

Im not being ridiculous, go and watch those matches and honestly tell me they were any faster nowadays then back then, look at Ardy and Zhao, I mean those dudes were faster than pretty much any modern player, they were about the same speed as LD, LCW,

AGAIN: the differences at this level are so minuscule

They werent as fast. The changes in direction were slower, as were the smashes. Defensive movements may have increased only marginally, but the big movements (jumps, moving the entire diagonal,...) have gotten a lot faster. There was a video showing LCWs footwork from the side in about 2009, I believe, if you think those guys could have matched that then you dont perceive reality as the vast majority does.
Actually went and looked up the video myself, here it is:

 

[Anand S]

Okay so in short you want to hero-worship Srikanth and dont really know what youre talking about...? Because stating that Srikanth is more deceptive overhead than LD in his prime is pretty laughable to be quite frank. Even former elite players, when commentating, could not say what shot he was gonna play next....at all. No one is saying Srikanth doesnt have variation, but he is less deceptive (in that area, at least).

I don't hero worship Srikanth man, if I worship anyone, it is the god of badminton, LIN DAN It isn't laughable, watch the Australia Open Final with CL, CL had no idea where any of SK's shots were going, the same thing happened with him and Prannoy in Indonesia (Prannoy is also hella deceptive overhead), CL had no idea where anything was going, whether it was backcourt or front court.

Deception for any shot has three sources (It varies by situation how important each factor is, but these are the fundamental pieces)
Same prep for every shot
# of Variations
Agression and approach of the shuttle

LD has the same prep for every shot, but the two players I just mentioned (and various others) have a higher number of variations. However, LD is separated by his agressive approach to the shuttle (In his prime), however, SK and Prannoy has a similar sort of aggressive approach to the shuttle as well, which is why they are so lethal overhead. Look at Gade, he was a pioneer of overhead variation, hella aggressive to the shuttle, and had the same prep for every shot, PG, TH, LCW, LD, were all hella deceptive overhead because of the three aforementioned factors.

Further proof, LCW was never really known for his "Overhead deception" (Gill Clarke mentions it a lot, even as recent as 2017 Worlds in the Leverdez match, you can hear Steen Pedersen mention it in the early part of the first game (start watching from like 3 points in) after Chong Wei fires a FH cross smash) until his prime starting in 2010, why? Because he was way less aggressive before that, so he was losing out on deception because of the approach, but once he started using his speed to attack and have an aggressive approach to the shuttle, behold: Overhead deception galore.

It isn't like LD is using some magic technique, it is just sound fundamental badminton (And believe me man, that in itself is an achievement)

 

[Anand S]

They werent as fast. The changes in direction were slower, as were the smashes. Defensive movements may have increased only marginally, but the big movements (jumps, moving the entire diagonal,...) have gotten a lot faster. There was a video showing LCWs footwork from the side in about 2009, I believe, if you think those guys could have matched that then you dont perceive reality as the vast majority does.
Actually went and looked up the video myself, here it is:

LCW is the fastest player of all time, he doesn't represent the general speed of the game


Pretty much the same speed, maybe SLIGHTLY LESS than LCW(Like I explained, the dude is THE FASTEST PLAYER EVER, and by a long shot too {Which on this level is quite small}, but for sure as fast or faster than ANYONE today, including LD (Ardy is definitely faster than LD, particularly in the defence

 

[Anand S]

This was the effort that Ardy ALWAYS put on defence, name me one player outside of the big three who can pull something like this off on a consistent basis, who is that hungry for the shuttle

pretty much the same speed as today's game, actually faster than a lot of modern matches to be quite honest

 

[j4ckie]

It isn't laughable, watch the Australia Open Final with CL, CL had no idea where any of SK's shots were going, the same thing happened with him and Prannoy in Indonesia (Prannoy is also hella deceptive overhead), CL had no idea where anything was going, whether it was backcourt or front court.

Deception for any shot has three sources (It varies by situation how important each factor is, but these are the fundamental pieces)
Same prep for every shot
# of Variations
Agression and approach of the shuttle

LD has the same prep for every shot, but the two players I just mentioned (and various others) have a higher number of variations. However, LD is separated by his agressive approach to the shuttle (In his prime), however, SK and Prannoy has a similar sort of aggressive approach to the shuttle as well, which is why they are so lethal overhead. Look at Gade, he was a pioneer of overhead variation, hella aggressive to the shuttle, and had the same prep for every shot, PG, TH, LCW, LD, were all hella deceptive overhead because of the three aforementioned factors.

Further proof, LCW was never really known for his "Overhead deception" (Gill Clarke mentions it a lot, even as recent as 2017 Worlds in the Leverdez match, you can hear Steen Pedersen mention it in the early part of the first game (start watching from like 3 points in) after Chong Wei fires a FH cross smash) until his prime starting in 2010, why? Because he was way less aggressive before that, so he was losing out on deception because of the approach, but once he started using his speed to attack and have an aggressive approach to the shuttle, behold: Overhead deception galore.

It isn't like LD is using some magic technique, it is just sound fundamental badminton (And believe me man, that in itself is an achievement)

Mentioning Prannoy as superior in that regard doesnt exactly help your case I really dont think he is a match for 'prime' LD in any aspect of the game, much less one that was LD forte (and still is, largely).
It's not just the preparation thats similar, the whole movements are almost entirely the same. No way anybody right in their mind thinks Prannoy is better than that, and even Srikanth, most everybody will consider inferior.

 

[latecomer]

It is hilarious for a few grown ups arguing with a 16 years. I have yet to see an adult winning an argument against a16 years old arrogant boy.

 

[Anand S]

Mentioning Prannoy as superior in that regard doesnt exactly help your case I really dont think he is a match for 'prime' LD in any aspect of the game, much less one that was LD forte (and still is, largely).
It's not just the preparation thats similar, the whole movements are almost entirely the same. No way anybody right in their mind thinks Prannoy is better than that, and even Srikanth, most everybody will consider inferior.

He isn't a match to prime LD physically, but he is definitely in that overhead skills, and perhaps at the net too, but everything else that matters in the game, LD is superior

 

[Anand S]

I explained where deception comes from, read it carefully, in his prime LD had such overhead deception, because he was aggressive with his approach and had the same prep on every shot. he also had all the basic Overhead variations (He added more as he got older, right now he is at his best in terms of overhead variation). It is Sound fundamental badminton

SK does all the same things as prime LD-agression (Gade was mentioning how awesome SK's pure aggression is), same prep on every shot, with even more variation, of course he has better overhead deception.

Prannoy is about the same as LD in terms of Overhead deception, analyze the factors I just provided, they are fundamental components of badminton

AGAIN: Differences on this level are so minuscule, they don't really warrant that much discussion like this

 

[j4ckie]

This was the effort that Ardy ALWAYS put on defence, name me one player outside of the big three who can pull something like this off on a consistent basis, who is that hungry for the shuttle

pretty much the same speed as today's game, actually faster than a lot of modern matches to be quite honest

Looks like Vittinghus. Inefficient. VA is already superior in his defensive movement, not to mention LD, LCW, CL,...
Superior speed, less falling down. Looks more impressive from the sideline, but I didnt want to comb through a 90 minute match for that particular rally. LD shows he is very much faster than Ardy, just look at how he saves that attempted kill to his deep forehand.

 

[renbo]

This was the effort that Ardy ALWAYS put on defence, name me one player outside of the big three who can pull something like this off on a consistent basis, who is that hungry for the shuttle

pretty much the same speed as today's game, actually faster than a lot of modern matches to be quite honest

How better was the camera work

 

[j4ckie]

I explained where deception comes from, read it carefully, in his prime LD had such overhead deception, because he was aggressive with his approach and had the same prep on every shot. he also had all the basic Overhead variations (He added more as he got older, right now he is at his best in terms of overhead variation). It is Sound fundamental badminton

SK does all the same things as prime LD-agression (Gade was mentioning how awesome SK's pure aggression is), same prep on every shot, with even more variation, of course he has better overhead deception.

Prannoy is about the same as LD in terms of Overhead deception, analyze the factors I just provided, they are fundamental components of badminton

AGAIN: Differences on this level are so minuscule, they don't really warrant that much discussion like this

Okay keep preaching that in the Indian badminton thread, maybe someone will believe you there. Prannoy must be so deceptive I didnt even see how great he was.

 

[Anand S]

Okay keep preaching that in the Indian badminton thread, maybe someone will believe you there. Prannoy must be so deceptive I didnt even see how great he was.

I never put Prannoy in LD's class, LD is so great because he has everything so fundamentally sound down to his physique (What A BODY, WOOOOH), there are players with one or two things better, but no one has the package quite like LD, all wrapped up with a killer will

AGAIN: the differences at this level ARE SO SMALL

 

[Anand S]

How better was the camera work

If they shot badminton matches like this, that would be SO AWESOME

 

[Anand S]

Looks like Vittinghus. Inefficient. VA is already superior in his defensive movement, not to mention LD, LCW, CL,...
Superior speed, less falling down. Looks more impressive from the sideline, but I didnt want to comb through a 90 minute match for that particular rally. LD shows he is very much faster than Ardy, just look at how he saves that attempted kill to his deep forehand.

Ardy was way more efficient than Vittinghus man, he was able to beat top players when he was out of his physical prime (He beat Dong Jiong in 1999 worlds first round, well after he had retired, and WELL past his prime in the early 90's, which shows he had great footwork technique (If it was simply physicality, he wouldn't have been able to keep up, because his physicality was gone by then) Ardy did that deep FH thing so well and conistently, and it takes a hell of a lot of speed and technique to do, I have rarely seen players do it nowadays with that sort of quality

 

[GingerCorslette]

2011 WC
3rd game. From down 19-20 to eventually winning it.

2012 OG
3rd game. Down 18-19 to eventually winning it as well.

Those moments are what makes LD and badminton as a sport great and fun to watch. No one will ever make you feel the same, at least no one yet.

 

[Anand S]

2011 WC
3rd game. From down 19-20 to eventually winning it.

2012 OG
3rd game. Down 18-19 to eventually winning it as well.

Those moments are what makes LD and badminton as a sport great and fun to watch. No one will ever make you feel the same, at least no one yet.

Mental strength and hunger to win show through always, saving those three match points in Rio (Especially the last one) is another memory I will always remember from LD

 

[RC47]

Imagine if everyone stopped replying to Anand and we let him talk to himself, what a sight that would be (and we would get some peace and quiet in these threads).

Then again, I fully expect him to start arguing with himself if it ever happens.

 

[Fortune]

A LOT of players have superior technical skills to LD, e.g.: Taufik, Gade, SK, VA, most of the Indian players actually, Lee Hyun Il,,

crap.
the one with superior technical skills will dominate the competition most of the time.
and now you can combine the number of titles by top 3 out of 5 MS above, and I'm sure LD win more titles.

Really? I can name 5 players right now
1. Taufik
2. Gade
3. Hendrawan
4. Lee Hyun Il
5. Viktor Axelsen

LD skills improve a lot.

young LD is only a smash machine.
when his smash is not working, very likely he will lose.

this is when LD vs Gade (2005 World Championships)
look at 3 : 45
net winners :
LD 8
PG 23



and you can compare his net play when he play against Taufik Hidayat.
7 - 1 for LD in G1 Thomas Cup 2010 (no data for G2)

23 : 35

There are EVEN more examples, I didn't mention Srikanth. Indian players have always had better technical skills than the Chinese, including LD, it is just that they lack on the physical side.

nonsense.
even right now Srikanth never won against LCW, and still negative to LD...
what about the other Indian players records against LD / LCW ?
no need to tell.


and how many Indian players in top 10 right now ?
only 1.
even their best player only ranked number 2 lol
http://bwfbadminton.com/rankings/2/...es/2017/44?rows=25&page_no=1&player1_id=93627

why only 1 player in top 10 ?
if Indian player has better technical skills than the Chinese including LD, surely we will see more Indian players in top 10 or even top 8 right now...just like China MS at the end of 2004 OG qualification period...
world #1, #2, #3, #7 and #8