main / cross ratio. explain this.

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by kwun, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    Why ask why? Just do it.
     
    #61 silentheart, Mar 23, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  2. phaaam

    phaaam Regular Member

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    I've been experimenting with different ratios. More recently I've been doing cross = main + 5%. My reasoning is that even though crosses have less string density (crosses are further apart from eachother than mains) compared to mains, they also have shorter overall length compared to mains. Without going into the math as to why length and density affect tension on the stringbed (this can be searched on the forum), I felt that the difference in density between mains and crosses is more important than the difference in length between mains and crosses. Which means, I wanted crosses to be strung at a higher tension, but how much more tension?

    I chose 5% higher cross tension than main because I feel the difference in string density is more important than the difference in string length, but not enough to warrant a 10% increase in crosses. That is, the string density of the crosses is more spaced and in order for the crosses to be closer to the tension on the mains it would require a 5% increase or so.

    As for the shape, it didn't really matter for me because my side supports (6-point support machine) are more than enough and the extra 5% increase actually pulls the sides in just a little bit, though not as much as 10% of course.

    Anyway, that's just what I've been experimenting with.
     
  3. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    With your explanation, it make sense all the way till the point what would you do with 22x22 pattern vs 22x21 pattern? Thanks.
     
  4. phaaam

    phaaam Regular Member

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    If mains were 22, I would do 22x23. If someone wanted 22 lbs. I would do 21x22. I'm still experimenting with this myself so I haven't done it for many customers. Most people are more familiar with the 10% rule, so for 22 lbs. I would do 21x23.

    I haven't tried crosses being less than mains before, my concern would be to avoid distorting (in case side supports weren't tight enough) the frame.

    I feel that if companies recommend 10% rule, there probably won't be much of an advantage to playing with tensions this much.

    I'm curious to try proportional stringing as well and seeing how that goes.
     
  5. DarthHowie

    DarthHowie Regular Member

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    Based on this thread, that the combination of machine, supports and tensioner play a large influence to how much more/less tension that is needed for the cross.

    That is where the ability of the stringer separates the good stringers from the bad in recognizing and adjusting in order to achieve a consistent quality in tension and minimize distortion.

    I've had to go through this when i switched from a drop weight stringway -> gamma 6004 with crank -> gamma 6004 with chudek support and wise 2086.

    stringway (internal supports + hold down): 10% rule for cross
    gamma 6004 crank: 10 % rule for cross
    gamma 6004 + chudek + wise: proportional for cross (same main tension for first 2 crosses, increase by one pound to next 2 crosses, increase to full 10% for remaining crosses)

    All top down. I'm sure i'd have to change my approach if i were to switch machines, supports or tensioners.

    I forgot to add that the stretchiness of the string will also play a factor. So many variables...that's what makes stringing fun =)
     
  6. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    i am glad we come to the very similar conclusion given our machines are practically siblings.

    i agree. every worthy stringer should do this exercise to determine the optimal tensioning pattern for their machine and technique. and never to settle, keep experimenting even if you think "the best" has been reached. i believe the range of the optimal setting is rather narrow.
     
  7. phaaam

    phaaam Regular Member

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    In the short period that I've been stringing (25 rackets), I've experimented between equal tension between main and cross, +5% on cross, +10% on cross, and proportional. Tomorrow I will finally get to play with proportional. But as DarthHowie said, there are so many variables that for me, the typical +10% has worked best in terms of feel and shape; I recently noticed that with +5% only, the bottom of the racket is just ever so slightly wider than usual, so another option has opened up for me in which I do +10% on bottom 11 crosses then +5% throughout (I string rackets 22mains x 22crosses instead of 22x21).
     
    #67 phaaam, Mar 30, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
  8. mackstine

    mackstine Regular Member

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    oooh how fun. I work with a Klippermate and do approx 15 rackets per month over the last year. I think I'll start experimenting with this and logging my findings.
    Let me know if anyone has experiment set up suggestions.
    Cheers all
     
  9. tcliang

    tcliang Regular Member

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    Well, I like to string my racket with a little modification of Gosen 2012 professional pattern. Gosen 2012 Professional Pattern is shown follows.
    Gosen2012Professional.jpg
    To my observation this pattern has the following features:

    With this pattern, I can arrange different tensions to the sweet spot crosses, the top and bottom crosses, and almost without deformation of the racket frame.

    To the player who prefer swing the racket using more of his wrist and arm, I will string the sweet spot crosses a little lower than the reference tension for him.

    To the player who prefer swing the racket using more of his finger and wrist, I will string the sweet spot crosses a little higher than the reference tension for him.

    The top and bottom crosses I will do progressive stringing. They all feel the racket strung are comfortable when playing.

    As a conclusion, there is no fixed tension ratio for main/cross.
     
  10. chiaki

    chiaki Regular Member

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    Hi guys, im new at stringing, and I would also like to get some advice on this. the rackets i've strung on a crank machine also feels like a thud than a crisp feel when i string 24x24.

    if asked for 24, should which of the above should i follow to achieve the mains=cross+10%? Thanks!
     
  11. tcliang

    tcliang Regular Member

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    Just mains=cross+10% won't achieve your expect.
    If you string on a crank machine and you hope the result strung like other constant pull machines, you should add extra 3 lbs on the mains and extra 5 lbs on the crosses. Or if you don't like to add too much extras, then you have to repull at least twice for mains and 4 times for crosses before clamping the strings. Also cranking as gently and slowly as you can, especially doing the crosses.
     
  12. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    Having switched ECP prestretch on fr the first time recently, I've noticed that my 29/31 rackets come out exactly the same length strung as empty, but after a few hours of play they end up 1-1.5 mm longer. I can only surmise that the prestretch is pulling the crosses further than usual, and the friction is keeping them there, making them slightly tighter than without PS.

    Next up will be 30/31, and I'll check the before/after length again.
     
  13. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    You could also try pulling the same tension for both mains and crosses. What works for me is that pre stretch pulls the crosses to exactly the desired tension despite the restriction from the main strings, thus overriding the use of additional tension on crosses to obtain the same result.
     
  14. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    I'll be trying "square" tensions if the 30/31 comes out long, I assure you:).
     
  15. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    Strung my Bs12 yesterday with 13/13 and it came out - wide. Feels a bit funny too - I guess I'll keep stringing with .5kg more on the crosses, and/or up the pre-stretch to 15%...because the 13/13.5 with 15% on my Bs09 resulted in perfect head shape and still feels great (which is surprising as it's the BG80, which is usually quick to lose that initial repulsive feeling).
     
  16. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    13/13 will probably come out right with 10% prestretch, I think.
     
  17. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    Well it didn't - it was definitely a bit wide. Not much, mind you, but wide. Also feels a bit number than it should (I didn't expect too much from the Zm67 as it's very rough and not as thin as my favorite strings, yet the one I strung so far was a letdown).
    The 13/13.5 Bs09 is spot on shape-wise. I string in a similar fashion to kwun, adding .2 and .3 kg on the 3rd and 4th pull on the bottom and decreasing on the 4th and 3rd string from the top.
     
  18. wguan126

    wguan126 Regular Member

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    Sorry for exhuming this old thread. To what extend, racket head distortion is acceptable? I recently changed from drop weight to ECP. With cross=main + 15%, the main direction still came out 2 mm shorter and the cross direction became 1.5 mm fatter. Acceptable or pretty bad? By the way, the stringing job was done on a 2-pt support Klippermate.
     
  19. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    Check your mounting. Both of mine klippermate and Baiardo come out no distortion at 10% increase on cross. That lead me to believe your mounting may be an issue. Also, what brand and model are you using?
     

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