MD final conspiracy theories...

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the_way

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Chew/Choong, Luluk/Alven, Chandra/Sigit loss were all on a very single purpose....

To promote the game in USA and eventually the world....

U can see very obviously that all those players still attack and smash Tony
Gunawan quite frequently though they know Tony has the very very very solid defense and almost impenetratetable....they seldom attack Howard and also if they attack howard, howard cant really answer most of the shot...

Furthermore.....u can see in luluk and alven game...they can return howard smash very easily by sending it to the other side of the court and cause howard to use backhand to retrieve it....and there were a few times....in the final game...chandra and were acting too slow and play as if tony was not there and chandra lift the shuttle too high...i haf never see chandra play such game in my life...

Furtehrmore, u can see howard's service is slightly higher than many world standard double player....thier opponent juz let it and did not kill the shuttle straight away(especially in the game versus denmark world no1 pair)....Meanwhile, in the final, indonesia pair of chandra and sigit is not under any pressure at all....they have been playing for so many many final and also face much more bigger and vociferous crowd before....besides that..the final was purposely lengthened to three games to make the crowd in california feel the adrenaline pumping and thus make them feel badminton is indeed very very exciting and worthwile to watch...

if we really want to play a real game...i think zhang jun n gao ling also can beat tony and howard....howard will definitely haf no answer for zhang jun smash...and the fast gao ling is ready to kill any half court shuttle:D :D :D

If howard n tony were to lose in final....i dont think badminton popularity will rise at all in usa....

well....IBF...indeed...this is a very good way to promote badminton by planning all these matches!!!!!!!! i am happy because badminton is getting more and more famous in USA...HOOOOOOOORAYYYYYY......and mayb u can see the tournament prize will increase!!! who knows....to 1 million like in tennis championship.
 
@ the_way - man, that is downright MEAN. :(

although some people might see it that way, it may also mean that howard and tony just wanted the dang thing more than anyone else.

was there something magical about the partnership of tony and howard that the top seeds couldn't overcome? who knows? the danes were too error prone, luluk and alven were fighting with each other, and candra and sigit were just careless. You could see these as signs of game fixing or not.

Whatever the top seeds did, or whatever they thought of the partnership of tony and howard, it was to their own disadvantage. If they wanted it bad enough, they should have done this or done that, but they didn't.

That's from my point of view though. :)
 
The_Way, Tell me you are joking right?

I dont know how many replies you are going to get on your post but if you intend to get alot of reactions to your post you will definitely succeed.

I only have a few things to say, if you have any proof these matches are fixed then lets see it. If not, you are better off keeping this type of opinion to yourself. Trust me.

Realistically, do you really think Tony and Howard were the only ones to upset the higher seeded players in this tournament ? Do you realize how many Chinese players were upseted in earlier rounds including a first round upset in WS ? Perhaps you can say that IBF is trying to promote badminton in Taiwan as well since the 19 year old girl with the disco hair style who is probably shorter than the net has UPSET everyone all the way to semi-finals including Wang Chen (#5 in the world) and almost beating #1 player in the world and finally losing in 3 games.

Regarding your points about attacking Howard, every team started out smashing at Howard, and Howard almost always returned them. Also if you watch the match, Howard and Tony were the ones doing almost all the smashing. I agree they did smash at Tony more than they should, but at this level its extremely hard to keep hitting to the same person with alot of success since you lose the surprise attack element. Especially, Howard has now played more than enough world class badminton and has the luxury to train with Tony and Halim who are world champions. Try and imagine having to defend Tony and Halim in practice all the time and then having to defend other players with less fire power ? Don't you think the opponent knows they have very little chance to put Howard away especially in most cases Howard would be defending the cross court smash ?

Anyways, I feel pointless trying to point out some of the inconsistencies of your "theory" that IBF fixed the world championship to promote badminton in USA. I will let the others do it. Finally, let's face it, what you got is a "theory" and exactly just a theory so stop saying it like its the TRUTH!
 
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It's thoughts like these that really cheapen what all the hardworking players have played and fought for. Are you seriously saying that they're acting and threw the games just so that good old U.S. of A would take a shine on the sport?! It takes more than a World Championship on American soil to rivet millions of Americans to badminton. I can't say for others but I believe that the US team truly desired and deserved the gold medal. If everybody else is throwing their games for the 'greater good', then there's really no meaning to the World Championship, is there?

Such thoughts only show how much respect you have for the players. If you want to publicly express a conspiracy theory, you better back it up with more than a few circumstantial evidences if you want people to take you seriously:mad:.
 
well....i have been oberving many major tournaments like wc, olympic and thomas and mind u guyz who disagree with me..i been to all those places and not watch it on tv...i haf watched chandra and sigit, jens eriksen and martin lungard hansen played for so many many times. Their defense are hardly broken and also their attacking game is lethal. With just one or two smash, they can get point. But what happen on their game in Anaheim was, they dont really leap up and do the powerful and scary jumping smash. They only perform usual jumping smash and also u can judge from the speed of the shuttle compared to sudirman cup. I remembered sigit did a few smashes more than 300km/h.....however, in anheim, i dont remember seeing any of that.

how much a winner of world championship can get....??? 1 million?? imagine the players still have to share the prizes...so, why dont they get something more lucrative offered for losing and in the same time promote badminotn!!!!

I also manage to talk to my country players during the world chmpionship, keita masuda and tadashi odsuka. they themselves also admitted that something wrong with all the pairs playing with tony and howard. Though, they are not from indon, they also shook their head with the final match and wondering why chandra and sigit smashed tony so many times instead of howard. Maybe howard is a better player, and thus their opponent send more shuttle to tony. :cool:

and there isnt any major upset to china player like one of u had mentioned....zhou mi...we already know she is getting very weak after the olympic cause many, i mean many lower ranked players had upseted her. zhang jun and gao ling loss is also not an upset because sudket and saralee are really top 3 pair in the world after last year spore open. Even if sudket and saralee play with the very best Kim and Ha...i m very sure, the game will be prolonged to 3 matches. Juz look at how good is sudket court coverage and his speed besides saralee fast reaction in front of net.

Meanwhile, the men double players in china are still very very inconsistent and they really cannot be depend on. Sang Yang and Zheng Bo has not make any impact at all at this year...Furthermore, Juz look at last year olympic....china is also hoping to get medal from them, but they blew it in very very early stages because of the tremendous pressure form li yong bo who wanted them to win the title badly.

But, i really wanna congratulate xie xingfang, she has come out from the shadow of her senior and beat the olympic champion zhang ning. Her shot was spectacular and she does not have fitness problem. It was indeed a very good performance by lindan also though he lost to taufik. Imagine all the gruelling matches he played b4 final!!! Well he shudnt put enormous pressure to win this tournament on himself. because of that, he played incosinstently and eventually lead to many rubber matches. i believe lindan will become stronger and stronger after this championship, especially in dealing with his no1 seed status in big big tournament.
 
I will not say nonsence.
But just think about this :
Candra/Sigit lost to Jonas/Lars in WC 2003.
After that we are splited by PBSI, and just end of last year jointed.
After their winning in WC 1997, they got no more great titles (WC and OG).
So this final was they opportunity to take 'revance' and show the world that they are the best double.
To get the title, they trained very hard and very serious.

Do you think that they just give the title away ? Don't make me laugh.

Tony and Howord were 'nobody'. Just like Icuk Sugiarto in 1983.
At that moment, Icuk was also 'nobody'. Because there were Liem Swie King, Morten Frost Hansen and Han Jian who 'master' the MS.
Nobody even looked at Icuk. But Icuk got the title.
Same thing now happen to Tony/Howard.

So...... conspiracy ? No Thanks.
 
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well you certainly are giving us your thoughts on this issue.

a billion debates and arguments in this thread will prove nothing.

being a logical man ;) , i must entertain all possiblilities which led to the Gunawan/Bach world champion outcome. i must admit your opinion is a possibility.

so let us all agree on this method to consider facts.
(1) if howard and tony can continue to perform such amazing feats in the future, especialy the regular Grand prix, then there is no doubt that their achievment is truely an untainted success.

(2) howard and tony do not continue to live up to their 2005 world champion status (ie. they dont win any 3 star and above titles, and majority reaches up to quaters or less)......... then and only then is this 'conspiracy theory' a possibility worth considering


we have to consider every possibility.

as for now......... congrats to Gunawan and Bach. A great showing.


cheers

8man
 
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ok..ok.....mayb u guyz are juz too happy with a new winner in badminton championship and still cant get over with the "stunned" reaction and juz love this type of upset. i was quite enjoyed with the upset created by them, but, i was disappointed with the way the danish pair and indonesians play.

if any1 who dont believe on this conspiracy....we can see how tony and howard perform in upcoming tournaments. juz hope that they can make it to at least quarter or semifinal.

i know that jonas and las passke remain consistent after their world championship win. :D :D :D
 
GREAT THEORIES the_way
Dont take away anything from the US pair.if it was confirmed that they would lose why should they take part?
I second hcyong,Lock/delete this thread plz!
 
the_way said:
well....i have been oberving many major tournaments like wc, olympic and thomas and mind u guyz who disagree with me..i been to all those places and not watch it on tv...i haf watched chandra and sigit, jens eriksen and martin lungard hansen played for so many many times. Their defense are hardly broken and also their attacking game is lethal. With just one or two smash, they can get point. But what happen on their game in Anaheim was, they dont really leap up and do the powerful and scary jumping smash. They only perform usual jumping smash and also u can judge from the speed of the shuttle compared to sudirman cup. I remembered sigit did a few smashes more than 300km/h.....however, in anheim, i dont remember seeing any of that.
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Nice knowing you watch big tournaments. I wonder though, is it really all that easy winning points in a doubles match? One or two smashes? Are you sure? You contradict yourself with these two lines:
the way said:
Their defense are hardly broken and also their attacking game is lethal. With just one or two smash, they can get point.
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So which of the two line should I hold true? If I were Tony and Howard's trainer, the biggest flaw that I'd immediately notice between the pair is Howard's defense. I will definetely make Howard train his defense much more intensively. Having Halim is obviously a very big asset as he's a very solid smasher. So I'm definetely gonna have Halim smashing at Howard repeatedly everyday until he gets the hang of a world class smash. I might even tweak the shuttle a bit to make it faster. On top of that, having a world class pair (Tony and Halim) as sparring partners is a very big asset. You can have them demonstrate instances and let the weaker see and experience it first hands on.

Should Howard's defense has improved, as his opponent, I wouldn't smash him too often so that he won't get our smash's "rythm". You see, if you keep smashing at Howard, his mental guard or rather his awareness will be focused all the time. And the more he takes your smash the more confident and better he will be at returning your smashes. Obviously Tony is a more solid defender and more experienced at the same time. So I'm going to smash Tony half heartedly and pump out my power against Howard when I think he's let his mental guard down. Which probably explains why you think the smashes that were executed against Tony and Howard were weaker at times. Also explaining why Howard faltered more when he was attacked.

About the Japanese players' comment, all I can say is that when you put someone you perceive as Gold and someone you consider as Crappy against each other. You're just gonna psychologically say the game was fixed or something like that when the Gold player starts losing.
 
DaN_fAn said:
I second hcyong,Lock/delete this thread plz!
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Pondgate! It's a cover up! :eek:

Following on from Brumgate, when Ha/Kim and Lee/Yoo withdrew in mysterious circumstances and Sang/Zheng and Candra/Sigit threw their matches against Lars/Jonas :eek: A Far East conspiracy to promote Western badminton.

Seriously though, I don't remember Lars/Jonas winning much after WC03.
Danish 2004
maybe something else late 03/early 04
quite regularly to at least QF stage though
They even managed a loss to England's Archer/Blair at the German 04

I think Lee/Yoo, Choong/Lee and Eriksen/Lundgaard dominated more in the period after WC03. And Cai/Fu and Alven/Hadiyanto improved

It seems unlikely to me that Gunawan/Bach were given the title, but I haven't seen any of the games.
 
Following on from Brumgate, when Ha/Kim and Lee/Yoo withdrew in mysterious circumstances and Sang/Zheng and Candra/Sigit threw their matches against Lars/Jonas :eek: A Far East conspiracy to promote Western badminton.


yar u r right...CONSPIRACY....even Camilla Martin's win in 99 WC is also a CONSPIRACY to promote badminton in Europe.:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

well, if want to promote badminton in Europe, i think IBF will prefer to use Gail Emms instead of Jonas and Las.:cool: :cool: :cool:
 
DaN_fAn said:
GREAT THEORIES the_way
Dont take away anything from the US pair.if it was confirmed that they would lose why should they take part?
I second hcyong,Lock/delete this thread plz!
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1st, make myself clear, I dont really agree the_way's theory. From my point of view (:p livestreaming from pplive), it seems like Howard played a nice game.
But, I dont think locking or deleting this thread will do any good to this forum. This is a forum, as long as the_way din violate any of the forum rules (which I think he din), he is free to express his feelings. You may choose to believe it, dont believe it, agreeing it, disagreeing it or watsoever. Or if u like, dont read it. Maybe he dont get it right, but he has at least the luxury to express himself.
oh ya, no offence dan_dan, but I found this statement amusing...
'if it was confirmed that they would lose why should they take part?'
so, those who confirmed they would lose shouldnt take part? Wheres the sportsmanship then? :s
 
well alright lets cool it first boys.let kwun have a say in this first before we lock this first.personally i think both sides do have a point but only the words use by the_way were kinda harsh and repelling.personally i havent seen the matches played by tony/howard in this wc.but i wold be eager to see it now.

ive only watch them play against peter steffensen/laybourne in last years dutch open if im not wrong.they werent that fantastic but were quite ok.mainly because tony was the driving force.candra/sigit have also been very reknown lazy players.the laziest doubles pair ive ever seen if im not wrong.they are always happy to defend and most the time lose the first set.so ive always thought if there was a time when they fail to start attacking they will lose their match.so that may have happened in this case.

the_way does have a theory too because candra sigit and tony have been training since their childhood days togther if im not wrong.they should be very familar with each other strategies and weakness and will definetely not attack gunawan but try and attack bach more.so if what some of you said is true,this is something worth looking into.

so anything is possible guys.lets not downplay one another.:cool:
 
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Again and again, after every single match, there're always rumors such as "trick", "gamemanship", "conspiracy theory", "team strategy", etc. Personally, I am a bit sick and tired to see articles like that, and really don't want to get into any debates.

Ok, it's fine to see everyone's own point of view. However, please give some well proven hard fact to support ur ideas. If just something like "hey, he did not play as well as he could", "why she just injuried today", or, "let xxx win to promote the sports", etc. Please, the pros are human being as well. They can have a good day, or a bad day. A is usually better than B, does not B never ever gets a chance to stun A.

Give the credits to Tony and Howard plz, they worked hard, and they deserve the title. If there's really conspiracy theory, USBA / IBF should let me get a title. Then, every "Joe club lvl player" will see, "hey, I get a shot at the champ". :D
 
i actually agree with this theory..
its very obvious although i never watch their match against the other 3 higher ranked pairs..
but its understandable .. and this is not the only sports that practise it
many competitions or sports uses this 'trick' to promote the sports
nothing special at all.. im not surprise and i alreayd knew the US pair will win when the match goto rubber match
 
LazyBuddy said:
If there's really conspiracy theory, USBA / IBF should let me get a title. Then, every "Joe club lvl player" will see, "hey, I get a shot at the champ". :D
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I concur.

When Team Indo came to the SGVBC I said, "Whoa! There's Taufik!"

A local "A" Tournament Player said, sarcastically, "Who's Taufik?!" I replied, "Are you serious? Right now, he's only the most talented badminton player."

He replied, "Yeah right, I'll beat him."

I chuckled and shook my head.

He replied, "Gimme 14 points and the serve and I'll take him."

I replied loudly, "Taufik will give you 14 points and the serve and you'll lose 17-14 in 15 minutes."

The nearby courts erupted in laughter. :p :D
 
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