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Discussion in 'India Open / Japan Open / Chinese Taipei Open / Ma' started by vching, Sep 28, 2007.
KKK TBH FOREVER!!!
im not sure why MK/HS is still not regarded as a main threat to everyone... everyone is just thinkin tat oh KKK/TBH will win.. or Feng Yun or LYD/JJS.. perhaps is because of their still kind of inconsistent showings.. maybe they win few tourneys in a row, they can actly create a fan network bigger than feng yun's n KKK/TBH's.. haha... anyways all da best for them.. they look set be the next super star already..
I would say Beres/Milroy, but then again, i'd be dreaming
Easily Kido/Setiawan, Fu/Cai or Koo/Tan. All 3 still in the running at semifinal stage.
The only thing certain is Choong/Lee won't be World No 1 even if they win ..........
It's not that Kido/Setiawan are inconsistent, more about lack of titles before suddenly winning World Championships. Much like Rasmussen/Paaske, Champions in 2003 who haven't really won anything meaningful before and after the World Crown. Most World Champ winners have won quite a few titles before landing the biggie .....
But unlike the Danes, Kido/Setiawan are in better position to build on their reputation. Some pairs are like that, they win biggies first and then cement their reputation. Razif/Jalani Sidek and Park Joo Bong/Kim Moon Soo didn't have much momentum either, until both these pairs won All-England. Of course, Professor Park had shown his potential with Lee Eun Ku at 1982 All-England, as do Jalani Sidek with big bro Misbun in 1980 World Championships.
..perhaps the jury is still out with Kido & Setiawan, eventhough they are the current World Champions. And one could wonder why? Perhaps because they haven't won tourneys and titles **consistently enough**. Sure, the WC and the recently ended CTO gave them their deserved titles. But perhaps, what people/fans/critics are clamoring for is if they can achieve the same level of performance, tourneys in and tourneys out, months in and months out, say, reaching the Finals or Semis in every tourneys, they participate in, for a lengthy period of time. Whilst at the same time garnering more titles, just like their predecessors....Yes, it might sound like a tall order being put on them, but hey, if that's what the people/fans/critics are looking for, then it's no more satisfying than to prove those people/fans/critics wrong...So far, they've lived up to all expectation and if they can somehow sustain their performance (and win this Macau Open title), and the subsequent tourneys, then perhaps there will be less "whispers of doubts" in their abilities..And in a way, this goes to other young MD pairs also, yes, incl. KKK & TBH..
Honestly, as I mentioned in the other thread, it's simply IMPOSSIBLE to sustain consistency, esp in a hotly contested field such as Men's Doubles With reference to Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun, they also did not win titles consistently...there were periods of 7-8 mths in the past 2 years that they failed to win titles.
I would disagree with regards to the lack of titles before winning the WC. They have won the 6* Indonesia, HKG and China Opens in 2005 and 2006. Esp in China Open 2006, they beat Jens Eriksen/Martin Lundgaard Hansen and Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun in the Semi and Final respectively. They have proven their credentials, its only a matter of time when they will land the World Championships.
Of course, the jury is still out on when whether they will maintain the strong showings....but...I have confidence in them.
Reference to Fu/Cai's titles:
March 2004 Swiss Open -- first title
March 2005 German Open -- one year later
March 2005 All England Open -- similarly, as one might argue, no big title before that
Nov 2005 Hong Kong Open -- a break of 8 mths before they win another title
Jun 2006 Chinese Taipei Open -- again, another break of 7 mths
July 2006 Macau Open -- consecutive title
Sep 2006 World Championships -- another big title
May 2007 Singapore SS -- again, another break of 9 mths
May 2007 Indonesia SS -- consecutive title
July 2007 China Masters SS -- best results of 3 consecutive titles
So....does that mean that Fu/Cai is also inconsistent during 2004-2006?
Sep 2005 Asian Championships -- first title
Sep 2005 Indonesia Open -- first consecutive title
Dec 2005 SEA Games Individual -- not counted
Aug 2006 Hong Kong Open -- finally another title after a break of almost a year (for GP events)
Oct 2006 China Open -- best tourney so far I would say
Oct 2006 Invitational World Cup -- first consecutive title
Jul 2007 World Championships -- unexpected big title after a break of 9 mths
Sep 2007 Chinese-Taipei Open -- keeping the momentum.
..what tjl_vanguard's and abedeng's (and many other people's/fans'/critics') points in their posts is the "sense" that Kido & Setiawan did not appear in as many later rounds(SF and Finals respectively), in comparison to KKK & TBH and/or FHF & CY, eventhough they had won as many titles as KKK & TBH and/or FHF & CY. The list of titles, shown above, esp. garnered by CY & FHF (which is nice for reference guide) could also show that they are "not as dominant" as people/fans/critics thought. But perhaps it is their consistency in appearing in the later rounds (Semis & Finals), of each tourney(s), which "stands out" and left a mark, on people/fans/critics impressions, that they are more "dominant"...more "consistent"...more "of a threat"..
Btw, badMania, if it's not too much of a hassle for you, do you mind listing all the tourneys' finishes by those 3 pairs or 4, incl. JJS & LYD, which imo, are still relatively early in their playing stage as a pair (just as a comparison purpose for us )??
Kido/Hendra are not as popular as KKK/TBH, CY/FHF and LYD/JJS simply because the Indonesian pairs are not as handsome as their opponents. If you want to be popular, you not only have to be extremely good but you also need to be extremely good looking. Well, that's how the world is nowadays and we call it ---BRAIN & BRAND---
If this is what is considered consistency...I would say that Kido/Hendra are pretty consistent (esp in the last 2 years).
2006: 2 QFs (losing to CTF/LWW and Clark/Blair) in ABC and WC; 1 SF (losing to Tony/Candra in Korea Open) and 1 Runner-Up (losing to again Tony/Candra in Indonesia Open).
The only unexpected loss was to Hendri/Hendra in the first round of Singapore Open Other bad showing include the R32 loss to Clark/Blair (again). Note that they participated in only 8 GP events last year and 1 invitational tourney.
Record: 37-8 (2 losses to Clark/Blair and Tony/Candra, 1 loss to Hendri/Hendra, 1 loss to KKK/TBH, 1 loss to Choong/Lee, 1 loss to Fu/Cai)
Fu/Cai lost 10 times last year.
This year's record so far:
2 QFs (losing to Jung/Lee in Korea SS and KKK/TBH in Indonesia SS), 3 SFs (losing yet again to KKK/TBH in Malaysia SS and Chong/Lee in Singapore SS and that dubious loss to Luluk/Alvent in Japan SS), 1 Runner-Up (losing to Fu/Cai in China Masters SS).
The only early round loss was that unlucky R16 loss to Han/Cho in the All-England SS.
Record so far (including yesterday's match): 34-7.
Both KKK/TBH and Fu/Cai lost 6 times this year.
nice debates so far... between ctjcad and badmania..
those are better than my today breakfast
I would like to know where they are (meant their achievement) during the 1sy year of partnership...
Jung/Lee's record this year:
Jung/Lee's record in 2006:
KKK/TBH's record this year:
Fu/Cai's recod this year:
Fu/Cai's record last year:
1 R16 (All-England)
Fu/Cai's record in 2005:
1 R16 (WC)
Fu/Cai's record in 2004:
1 SF (AE)
..keeping this trivial topic sort of alive, as i know badMania is an ardent fan of MK & HS (i'm looking from another perspective)..well, wish if tjl_vanguard and abedeng and others could be here to chime in more (esp. on their views)..
Comparing Kido/Hendra's 2005 record to Fu/Cai's 2004 record (first full year):
1 R64 (AE -- always bad luck in AE so far)
2 Titles (not including the SEA Games 2005)
Overall record: 24-10
Record in 2006 (second full year):
2 R32s (AE)
2 Titles (not including the Invitational World Cup 2006)
Overall record: 37-8
Record in 2007:
1 R16 (again AE )
2 Titles (WC)
Record so far: 33-7
..there you have it folks, a pretty comprehensive details of those 4 pairs' performances/results...Thanks, badMania, for the effort, hope the guys can slowly digest all the infos (they're a bit spread out but it's ok)..(see, taufik-ist, our badMania is really a true follower of MK & HS)
I wish the matches between KKK/TBH & MK/HS will not be a dull affair...
If MAS pair win & beat the possible opponents which is Feng Yun in the final tomorrow, only they can prove to the world that they are back to theri best..
QF : Beat JJS/LYD
SF : Beat MK/HS
Final : Win over Fu/Chai
Deserverd to be ... right ?