Most effective way to make the opponent tired in level doubles?

[SSSSNT]

Sometimes in our club we get lower level opponents coming in and just want to make them tired so they go home sooner or can't play too many games. Also because it's fun. What do you think is the most effective way to do this? I've tried the clear-drop-repeat method with some success. Do you have any tips beyond that?

 

[CanucksFan]

It's obviously harder in doubles because there's two of them to cover an area that's only slightly larger than in singles.
If they don't rotate properly, you might be able to isolate one player at the back, and make them run from side to side - that's probably the best way to quickly tire out low level opponents, but won't work if they're good enough that the partner rotates back to help them out.
Also, play everything just within their reach - maintain control of the rally, but force them to move as much as possible, and keep the point going even if you get the chance to play an easy winner (wait for them to make the mistake instead).

 

[dnewguy]

Hello,

Give them easy lifts to smash.. I'm assuming your defence will hold.
Keep lifting and keep taunting them(humorous way).
Smashes and clears drain energy fast. And also tires the shoulder/arm.

Another way is to have a penalty for losing team. It can be a small treat or money or anything so they won't just throw the match on getting tired.

 

[Budi]

Give them easy lifts to smash.. I'm assuming your defence will hold.
Keep lifting and keep taunting them(humorous way).

Thats remind me when im young, beginner, & proud for my strength.
An advance player did the same to me, tho im not actually join their group, but he asked me to play together. Kinda like he did a drill on me in format of games. Thanks to him, im me today. If not i might stuck at the lower ground forever.

And yes its very exhausting. Im a sports kids background with good stamina & strength yet i feel super exhausted after playing agains him.

 

[dnewguy]

Thats remind me when im young, beginner, & proud for my strength.
Kinda like he did a drill on me in format of games. Thanks to him, im me today. If not i might stuck at the lower ground forever.

I can understand.
A straight smash was my only weapon in my early days.
Even now I get impatient with a slow rally player and lose the point trying to rush it.
We have this senior guy (got 7-8 years over me) who would bait newcomers into playing half court singles with him. His stamina and high clears with fair bit of line control are his strengths.
I used to hate playing his game( still do ) because I have to play long rallies patiently and hit all my clears and smashes with more control rather than power. It's tantalizing & exhausting.

But I do it nevertheless, to shut his gloating and to avenge my young friends

 

[Z-Force III]

Sometimes in our club we get lower level opponents coming in and just want to make them tired so they go home sooner or can't play too many games.

Isn't this something similar to bullying? Why not putting dust on the floor to make them slip away or hit them as a partner """""accidentally""""" to make them injured and stay home for a few weeks?

IMO the best way to make them lose the interest to play better opponents is to play serious. This has also the advantage that you spend less time with them on court -> shorter rallies, less rallies -> shorter game. They may get frustrated and would leave or refuse to play in the future. It can also motivate them to become better to fit in. I really hate if somebody don't take his/her opponent serious, toy around and make them look like fools. This is some kind of disrespect and not great sportmanship if you do this cat and mouse game.

At the end of the day you need to ask yourself if you are at the right place if you want to get rid of certain players. Everybody claims to have good and challenging games, but we should also give it to others to let them improve, especially in a supportive enviroment of a club. If you want to spend time just with selected players a private booking court might be a better idea.

 

[UkPlayer]

At the end of the day you need to ask yourself if you are at the right place if you want to get rid of certain players.

That's it really. Ideally you want to be the middle of your club with not much deviation between player levels.

You should never deviate from your game against different opponents as it reinforces bad habits. If these aren't matches you should be using them to improve your game, be conscious of what you're doing rather than just playing to win. Give every person you play with due respect.

 

[SSSSNT]

Isn't this something similar to bullying? Why not putting dust on the floor to make them slip away or hit them as a partner """""accidentally""""" to make them injured and stay home for a few weeks?

IMO the best way to make them lose the interest to play better opponents is to play serious. This has also the advantage that you spend less time with them on court -> shorter rallies, less rallies -> shorter game. They may get frustrated and would leave or refuse to play in the future. It can also motivate them to become better to fit in. I really hate if somebody don't take his/her opponent serious, toy around and make them look like fools. This is some kind of disrespect and not great sportmanship if you do this cat and mouse game.

At the end of the day you need to ask yourself if you are at the right place if you want to get rid of certain players. Everybody claims to have good and challenging games, but we should also give it to others to let them improve, especially in a supportive enviroment of a club. If you want to spend time just with selected players a private booking court might be a better idea.

I don't think those are the same thing lol. What's next, slashing their car tires?

There's no perfect place. I like this club. Badminton is not that serious dude.

 

[Budi]

For me, actually playing with lower level is not that bad actually, tho i agree

You should never deviate from your game against different opponents as it reinforces bad habits.

My thinking is.
1. With lower level where the error allowance is bigger, i could train my not to good shot. Im a big hitter but not quite good at dropshot. This is my drill for repeating the stroke till my body could memorize the pattern.

2. Play more strategic while having handicap. If i play with equally good partner, i could take more risky shot as i know my partner could cover me. But with lower level, i need to be extra considerate of what shot i should play. Its beneficial to train our wisdom when playing at even higher ground. Afterall when all player is equaly skillfull, what really matter is experience, how fast we could adapt in different situation, & how we could judge & makes a good decisionin an instant moment is what makes it different (ofcourse luck count to the games)

3. Idk for others but seeing other could grow better is also my happiness. Seeing the comunity alive, watching more kids playing rather than sticking their nose on their gadget, bring me smile. Im growing from bullying & yelling from many different better player. Tho im not on their level, im thankfull that they still want to play with me & bless me with their wisdom. Maybe now, deep down, i want to pass my bless to others around me.

 

[ralphz]

Here's an idea.

Play properly, you'll win points straight away. The opponents will hit to your partner instead of you. If loads of points go by and you are just standing there with your racket at your feet while they keep hitting to your partner, then just walk off the court . People might ask why, say they won't hit to you / they're afraid to hit to you, and invite/welcome somebody else to come on. Not bitterly. And the next match you'll probably get a better game for you.

Or, just at the start say it's not balanced and others are welcome to come on.

Both of those seem to me to be in line with your goal of playing better matches.

Both those scenarios are reasonable and can happen even with those that don't have that personal agenda you have. And are better for everybody. And in line with a goal of everybody getting better matches.

(assuming, given your post, that you don't want to go the route of giving them some shots where they have a chance, and some coaching tips.. )..

Also "tiring people out" isn't really healthy for people anyway 'cos it might not even really be tiring them out exactly, it might be making their heart rate shoot up. And in badminton people don't tend to walk off court midgame when that happens, they continue playing when they probably should walk off court(and let their heart rate come down!). (besides that getting tired out isn't always good for people anyway!).

Badminton is not that serious

in a sense it's not, and that's maybe one reason why it can be so fun to take it very seriously!

 

[SSSSNT]

Here's an idea.

Play properly, you'll win points straight away. The opponents will hit to your partner instead of you. If loads of points go by and you are just standing there with your racket at your feet while they keep hitting to your partner, then just walk off the court . People might ask why, say they won't hit to you / they're afraid to hit to you, and invite/welcome somebody else to come on. Not bitterly. And the next match you'll probably get a better game for you.

Or, just at the start say it's not balanced and others are welcome to come on.

Both of those seem to me to be in line with your goal of playing better matches.

Both those scenarios are reasonable and can happen even with those that don't have that personal agenda you have. And are better for everybody. And in line with a goal of everybody getting better matches.

(assuming, given your post, that you don't want to go the route of giving them some shots where they have a chance, and some coaching tips.. )..

Also "tiring people out" isn't really healthy for people anyway 'cos it might not even really be tiring them out exactly, it might be making their heart rate shoot up. And in badminton people don't tend to walk off court midgame when that happens, they continue playing when they probably should walk off court(and let their heart rate come down!). (besides that getting tired out isn't always good for people anyway!).



in a sense it's not, and that's maybe one reason why it can be so fun to take it very seriously!

Well sometimes I play properly. I don't play around on every point, even against lower level. Sometimes I finish them swiftly. Walking off court is not my style unfortunately. But as I said, getting them tired is also pretty fun. Who worry about the opponent heart rate lol.

 

[ralphz]

Well sometimes I play properly. I don't play around on every point, even against lower level. Sometimes I finish them swiftly. Walking off court is not my style unfortunately. But as I said, getting them tired is also pretty fun. Who worry about the opponent heart rate lol.

I've had an opponent in singles when my cardio fitness was low such that my heart rate went high after a few short rallies or one or two medium length rallies.. Or quarter of the way through the game.. And they were concerned and suggested I sit out and they told me that they had a heart attack in their 30s. Also, I had a coaching lesson from a squash coach at one time and they monitored their heart rate perhaps since their partner had a heart attack while playing. I know a guy that is of the view that one shouldn't come off just because one is tired or has a racing heart, but they have a heart arrhythmia which i've read can actually be exercise induced. I don't know if him abusing his health by ignoring his fast heart rate caused it..

If somebody was a personal trainer in e.g. a boxercise class, and somebody's heart rate has gone high , and the client can feel it thumping. / heart pulpitations. . then the trainer (if sane), or would say to stop. Likewise a training partner. In badminton midgame that might be a lot less common for a training partner to say to stop! (They might think oh great he's "tired" and see it as an opportunity). But a very good intelligent training partner would say (or suggest) to stop!

It's a good idea to look out for one's own health and not a bad idea to look out for other peoples particularly that you impact, and within reason/consent/boundaries/context appropriate(or not context inappropriate!) ! It's really sensible for somebody very out of breath to come off..

Some people in badminton will only care about the badminton and then if their technique starts going they might come off(and they end up looking after their health a bit as a consequence of that!). Which can work. But health first is better.. Often people get into badminton for health reasons .. But then maybe some forget because of the culture where people don't think about it.

What you shouldn't do is push them so their heart rate shoots up and then suggest that they come off ;-) that'd be a real d- move!

I've had doubles where i've come off to let my heart rate down and have switched to a two on one. (which is another option if nobody else is aroudn to replace them).. Or somebody else has come off (at my suggestion). But if you're the cause of it intentionally and your agenda was to get them off then that's totally another matter! ;-)

 

[SSSSNT]

I've had an opponent in singles when my cardio fitness was low such that my heart rate went high after a few short rallies or one or two medium length rallies.. Or quarter of the way through the game.. And they were concerned and suggested I sit out and they told me that they had a heart attack in their 30s. Also, I had a coaching lesson from a squash coach at one time and they monitored their heart rate perhaps since their partner had a heart attack while playing. I know a guy that is of the view that one shouldn't come off just because one is tired or has a racing heart, but they have a heart arrhythmia which i've read can actually be exercise induced. I don't know if him abusing his health by ignoring his fast heart rate caused it..

If somebody was a personal trainer in e.g. a boxercise class, and somebody's heart rate has gone high , and the client can feel it thumping. / heart pulpitations. . then the trainer (if sane), or would say to stop. Likewise a training partner. In badminton midgame that might be a lot less common for a training partner to say to stop! (They might think oh great he's "tired" and see it as an opportunity). But a very good intelligent training partner would say (or suggest) to stop!

It's a good idea to look out for one's own health and not a bad idea to look out for other peoples particularly that you impact, and within reason/consent/boundaries/context appropriate(or not context inappropriate!) ! It's really sensible for somebody very out of breath to come off..

Some people in badminton will only care about the badminton and then if their technique starts going they might come off(and they end up looking after their health a bit as a consequence of that!). Which can work. But health first is better.. Often people get into badminton for health reasons .. But then maybe some forget because of the culture where people don't think about it.

What you shouldn't do is push them so their heart rate shoots up and then suggest that they come off ;-) that'd be a real d- move!

I've had doubles where i've come off to let my heart rate down and have switched to a two on one. (which is another option if nobody else is aroudn to replace them).. Or somebody else has come off (at my suggestion). But if you're the cause of it intentionally and your agenda was to get them off then that's totally another matter! ;-)

I knew at least two guys who died on the court during an intense match (not against me). My view is, one's heart rate is their own responsibility. If they feel super tired, or has severe asthma, or haven't slept in 5 days, then it's on them to not run so much. If they still choose to run chasing my shots, I don't really care what happens. I don't worry about stuff like this. It's personal responsibility.

 

[ralphz]

I knew at least two guys who died on the court during an intense match (not against me). My view is, one's heart rate is their own responsibility. If they feel super tired, or has severe asthma, or haven't slept in 5 days, then it's on them to not run so much. If they still choose to run chasing my shots, I don't really care what happens. I don't worry about stuff like this. It's personal responsibility.

Telling them information or giving them a suggestion, (which ideally could be backed up by some reason/reasons too), isn't taking away from their personal responsibility at all.

If person A thinks person B is endangering their(B's) health for whatever reasons, and "A" tells them / have a conversation with them where they relay that to them, tthen It's providing them(B) with information that might help them make a better decision or more informed decision.. (provided the info A gives B is good information and communicated well/appropriately!)

That's not to say it's "A"'s responsibility to look after "B"'s health. It is "B"'s responsibility to look after his own health. And "B" is free to agree with "A" or disagree with "A"..or to consider it and bear it in mind, or to reject it for any reason or no reason. A lot of factors go into whether something is safe or not and it's for them to determine for themselves. . It's "B"'s decision and "B"'s responsibility, and a discussion with them where they receive some information won't change that.

I went to a car park yesterday. I was in a queue for it. Two cars were ahead of me in the queue. Two cars drove out the car park. The two cars ahead of me went into the car park. I am then at the front of the queue. I didn't want to drive out the quene and into a full car park to confirm whether or not it was full, 'cos then a car could come out and the car that was behind me could jump queue and go in. So I waited at the front of the queue. And a guy walked out the car park and looked over his shoulder and pointed into the car park, (no doubt to an empty space he'd seen). And so I drove in and parked there. So he checked, was aware of something I wasn't, and relayed information to me that I wasn't aware of. It's not his responsibility. But it was helpful.

I knew at least two guys who died on the court during an intense match (not against me)."

Thanks, That is interesting and good information.

 

[SSSSNT]

Telling them information or giving them a suggestion, (which ideally could be backed up by some reason/reasons too), isn't taking away from their personal responsibility at all.

If person A thinks person B is endangering their(B's) health for whatever reasons, and "A" tells them / have a conversation with them where they relay that to them, tthen It's providing them(B) with information that might help them make a better decision or more informed decision.. (provided the info A gives B is good information and communicated well/appropriately!)

That's not to say it's "A"'s responsibility to look after "B"'s health. It is "B"'s responsibility to look after his own health. And "B" is free to agree with "A" or disagree with "A"..or to consider it and bear it in mind, or to reject it for any reason or no reason. A lot of factors go into whether something is safe or not and it's for them to determine for themselves. . It's "B"'s decision and "B"'s responsibility, and a discussion with them where they receive some information won't change that.

I went to a car park yesterday. I was in a queue for it. Two cars were ahead of me in the queue. Two cars drove out the car park. The two cars ahead of me went into the car park. I am then at the front of the queue. I didn't want to drive out the quene and into a full car park to confirm whether or not it was full, 'cos then a car could come out and the car that was behind me could jump queue and go in. So I waited at the front of the queue. And a guy walked out the car park and looked over his shoulder and pointed into the car park, (no doubt to an empty space he'd seen). And so I drove in and parked there. So he checked, was aware of something I wasn't, and relayed information to me that I wasn't aware of. It's not his responsibility. But it was helpful.



Thanks, That is interesting and good information.

Uh yes offering suggestion is fine and good. Never said it isn't.

 

[R20190]

I agree with learning ways to tire out your opponent but the bit I cannot agree with is "so they go home sooner or can't play too many games". I just think that is the wrong mindset to have in any sport, particularly if we all consider ourselves students of the sport and all trying to improve and enjoy the game. There is nothing wrong with being a developing player. Who knows, those weaker players you are trying to send home today may one day be better than you!

In my younger days I used to play a lot with more senior-aged players, who due to their age were unable to play to the same level they once did. Some of them would have wiped the floor with me in their youth. So the mindset I had was, yes I could easily beat them now, by making them run, using my speed, stamina and power against them. But how would that benefit me? It wouldn't. There's no satisfaction at all and I'd learn nothing. Instead, I treated it as an opportunity to improve and to learn by deliberately handicapping myself and trying to beat them by using other strategies. For example, I would intentionally not hit it close to the edges of their court thereby giving them a smaller court and more time, or I would not choose to smash in certain situations, not using deceptions etc.

For me, this was really beneficial as I was learning new ways to play and not relying on my usual tactics to win points. It's about making the most of any opportunity and maximising the benefit you get from it, even when playing with much weaker players.

 

[SSSSNT]

I agree with learning ways to tire out your opponent but the bit I cannot agree with is "so they go home sooner or can't play too many games". I just think that is the wrong mindset to have in any sport, particularly if we all consider ourselves students of the sport and all trying to improve and enjoy the game. There is nothing wrong with being a developing player. Who knows, those weaker players you are trying to send home today may one day be better than you!

In my younger days I used to play a lot with more senior-aged players, who due to their age were unable to play to the same level they once did. Some of them would have wiped the floor with me in their youth. So the mindset I had was, yes I could easily beat them now, by making them run, using my speed, stamina and power against them. But how would that benefit me? It wouldn't. There's no satisfaction at all and I'd learn nothing. Instead, I treated it as an opportunity to improve and to learn by deliberately handicapping myself and trying to beat them by using other strategies. For example, I would intentionally not hit it close to the edges of their court thereby giving them a smaller court and more time, or I would not choose to smash in certain situations, not using deceptions etc.

For me, this was really beneficial as I was learning new ways to play and not relying on my usual tactics to win points. It's about making the most of any opportunity and maximising the benefit you get from it, even when playing with much weaker players.

Well no one has to agree. It's just how we roll. We also sometimes play senior aged. Sometimes I handicap myself, other times I make em run a lot, other times play proper, other times be their partner, etc. If I want them to only play one game then I'll just make em run around the court.