Why not a combination WR, and H2H? LD is the best player in the world. LCW could only come 2nd. When u look at all of CJ vs LCW games even if LCW lost some of those games objectively as a Badminton Player who is better?
I kinda agree to that. Except for the thread stater intention, maybe he did not expect that it will go this far
- So, reading the 1st paragraph above, basically you're suggesting LCW lost because of his back injury? - Yes, why the minimal credit to CJ for beating PG, a worthy opponent, even if it took over 1 hr? - What consistency are you referring to? Do you know LD hasn't won a single SS title since last November (China Open) until last week's China Master??.. - What recent records are you referring to? - I have the same bet as the ones you listed above. No question. - If you've read the entire thread, esp. the 1st page, i've already posted who i would rank as no.2. Yes, i simply use the H2H records of all the top players to decide the answer. ..this is the connection, see below..
For those who believe world ranking, 1st ranked Nova/LyN lost to 36 ranked ZN/ZYL 11:21, 11:21 2nd ranked Hendra/Vita lost to 70th ranked TJM/TQ 10:21, 9:21 it's ok for 1st ranked lost, it's not that surprised even lost to very lower ranked player, but it's weird that both 1st ranked and 2nd ranked lost to very lower ranked players at the same time. It's especially astonishing that both of them lost so badly like amateurs to professionals. haha, this is the funniest world ranking in the world, can anyone witness the same thing in any other sports, like tennis ?(both 1st and 2nd ranked lost to 36ranked and 70th ranked so badly at the same time) That's the reason I said the BWF world ranking is just a joke.
you have a point here - its weird both 1st ranked and 2nd ranked lost to very low ranked players i also don't believe myself. but you think their lost has anything to do with the ranking? also other than the current world ranking system used by bwf is there any other way which can determine the true performance level of the players?
well it shows the pitfalls of the BWF ranking system. the badminton ranking system is extremely unfair. For example, China continue defeated all others to keep the Thomas/Uber cup, they concentrated a lot on the Thomas cup/Uber cup. Players even sacrificed some super series. They also won like 3:0, or 5:0 all the way. For example Lin Dan, BCL, CJ they all won all their matches, LD bt Taufik twice, bt LCW,... While at the end, LD only got 8,000 points from winning the Thomas cup, BCL got 6,000 points and CJ probably 1,000 because played only 1 match. But the loser team's losing player Taufik got 17,000 points, where 9,000 points from the final (losing twice to LD) and 8,000 points from preliminary round (while China as the title holder, cannot play the preliminary round). This the BWF ranking system, LD, winning all the matches including won twice against Taufik, got only 8k points, while Taufik earned 17k points by losing. Is this the funniest thing in the world?! Do I have a better way to determine the level of players? Sure, if using my ranking system, it'll be much, much better, at least no weird things happen any more.
..actually if you've read the thread from beginning to now, you would notice a few members already suggested to use the WR and the H2H records to determine who's arguably the no.2 player behind LD. And a lot of members already suggested LD is no.1 followed by LCW and CJ. But jamesd20's post #137 made it clear on the purpose of both references. The thread starter simply wants to know who is arguably the no.2 player behind LD (based on the H2H records and the recent WC result). And actually a lot of members already suggested that LCW is the 2nd best player behind LD, using H2H or not. Essentially this thread could've ended after 1 or 2 pages. But what's been continuously been argued about (and brought up by a few members) is the usefulness of whether LD can be called the "best" by simply using the H2H record and whether it's a valid reference by suggesting that CHJ's lone victory vs. LD (in the EAG) should count thus marring LD's "perfect" winning H2H record vs. the other players. Okay, if the suggestion that LD is not the "best" simply by his loss vs. CHJ is controversial, then so be it. The thread starter even suggested we can make our list, even if it's subjective. The mod then changed the thread title to something even more simple (eventhough that's not what the thread starter wanted to find out). It's something we can do and research on our own with the facts/records readily available. But if one wants to keep using and referencing CHJ's win over LD, i've got news for you: CHJ is not even ranked in the top 30, let alone top 50. So how can we consider him to be one of the top players?????...(besides there's no record of their H2H meeting).. Dudes! The thread title is very clear and very simple!! There's nothing complicated about going out and doing your own research on the top players' H2H records (meaning just take the top 10 players, just like freelast did)!! Hopefully from there, all the non-sense banters would cease!!
World ranking is actually quite a safe bet UNLESS China comes into the picture. H2H is very telling, but sometimes 'A lose to B, B lose to C but C lose to A' case might happen, we can use it to predict some matches but not who is the best overall. Now, your own ranking. If you have been following badminton by watching a lot of videos all the time, your own ranking might actually be a very reliable source to determine who is stronger. I don't watch many videos but sometimes just following the names are enough for you to tell who will win or lose, regardless of rank. We will know that China ALMOST always is a strong force, although they have crap for world ranking in some disciples.
- WR is not necessarily dependable or "safe". What if, say PSH or Simon Santoso is ranked no.1. Can we consider either of them to be 2nd best behind LD?...of course not, thus we take the next step, using the H2H record to determine..If they don't have an equal no. of matches played, then tough luck. Take whatever is available and shown and do the comparison.. - It is very simple, friend. You don't take 'A lose to B, B lose to C but, C lose to A' case. At least that's not what the thread starter wanted to know. What he wants to know is the H2H records of Player A vs. player B, vs. player C, vs. player D and so forth. Then player B vs. A, vs. player C, vs. player D and so forth. Find out how many wins, losses and ties all the top players have and compare them all; who has the best wins-loss-ties records. Just like he sorted them out on the first page (post #6). It's very simple and that's the intent!! And i think we can use that for the purpose of the thread title!!
lol ya, that would probably be the funniest thing in the world! i wonder what is bwf whole idea behind that? you mentioned you have a ranking system and what would that be? i am curious!
Here is a link for world ranking system used by the BWF. Enjoy. http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file_download.aspx?id=22462
Thanks to you we have made it this far No one suggested that LD is not the BEST player, but to come to that conclusion solely by H2H ranking is a laughing stock. Fact is a fact, even its not recorded Are you reffering to your self??
36 and 70? where did you get that? As far as i know they now rank 5 and 24, this is after the recent results and if they continue the good form then im sure it will be reflected on BWF ranking as well. Dont get me wrong Im not saying just use BWF solely, but this thread is about using H2H (not about BWF ranking) to find out the BEST player and then discussion went from there http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/ranking/category.aspx?id=1697&category=476 If BWF ranking is a joke, then H2H is not? please share yours BTW Nova/Lily did not loose like an amature, you can check out the score line
