Paul Hamm's amazing comeback (Gymnastics)

Discussion in 'ATHENS 2004 non-badminton events' started by Joseph, Aug 18, 2004.

  1. Joseph

    Joseph Regular Member

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    Did anyone else see this? I'm very impressed. Going from being in the lead to being last and showing an amazing comeback to come out on top to win Gold. :eek:

    He was starting to cry when the USA athem was playing... :cool:
     
  2. Syaoran_Style

    Syaoran_Style Regular Member

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    i saw it and i can say it's TOTALLY UNFAIR !!!!!! like french commentators said Gymnastic is beginning to be like some winter sports ... i'm sure they bought one judge (or more) :mad: :mad: :mad:
    2 koreans dominated the event since the beginning ... respectively number 1 and number 2 ... and with a miracle paul hamm who was 5 or 6 came back while the koreans did greatly than him !!
    this is very sad if gymnastic become like figure skating ='(
     
  3. liverpool

    liverpool Regular Member

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    Great performance by all the gymnasts. Totally unfair to the Koreans. Hamm only deserve a bronze.......The gol and silver belongs to the Koreans. Hamm nearly crashes into the judge on vault but yet score 9.1+.
     
  4. gossip_lover

    gossip_lover Regular Member

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    I agree with you guys.....i thought that the marks given to hamm was bit too high....the korean pair were very good...and i felt very VERY bad for the chinese.....one slip...and that was it to take away his gold!......:( :( :( :( :(
     
  5. V1lau

    V1lau Regular Member

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    didn't anyone see hamm giving money to the judge when he fell near the scorers table, I think he staged that tumble so no one would notice him paying them off. I agree with y'all ridiculous...9.132 or something like that...since no can get a ten...I guess no one can get an 8...gymnastic sucks...another sport that need to give up its coverage to badminton. :D
     
  6. Californian

    Californian Regular Member

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    Sorry, I have to disagree about the results. It was one of the great comebacks of all time. Sure he was helped back in by the mistakes of the others, but he delivered the big performance when he needed it. The three successive releases and the clean landing did it.

    So what happened to China and Romania? Either one of them could have won it by staying clean.
     
  7. V1lau

    V1lau Regular Member

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    no matter how much we argue, we will never know who really won, I mean it just a subjective decision by a group of judges. I mean they should post all the deductions they see as part of the score so we know whats going on. Thats why I can't stand these sports...It just seems the scoring is so out of whack...as I don't think he deserved even close to a 9 I mean he was right next to the judges...I mean I don't care how many little mistakes other made, they don't all add up to that one...in a sport where a toe point can make you olympic champion, come on nearly taking out the judges has to be fatal!
     
  8. Syaoran_Style

    Syaoran_Style Regular Member

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    Of course he did well but he did not better than the koreans who made no mistakes, all judges was too strict with them and give a better mark to the american while he didn't deserve it ... i'm not a gymnastic professional but it was so flagrant ='((

    Chinese yang wei fell ... felt very sorry for him :(
     
  9. Neil Nicholls

    Neil Nicholls Regular Member

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    someone should lodge a protest then like they have done in that horsey-thing event where the German went through the start twice, which is a fault, but appealed and had the fault removed and was in Gold medal place, now the others have appealed to get the fault re-instated so they move up the standings...
     
  10. Adel

    Adel Regular Member

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    Don't intend to comment on athletes buying off the judges but yes, I think that's the problem with events like these. It's, to a certain extent, very subjective and any miracle win will throw up a lot of controversy. What about the Japanese men who overtook everyone to win the team gold medal? I didn't see Paul Hamm's last execution (nor the one he flopped for that matter) but the Koreans were truly excellent.
     
  11. Adel

    Adel Regular Member

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    #11 Adel, Aug 19, 2004
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2004
  12. Californian

    Californian Regular Member

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    When Paul Hamm fell on his landing, that should have been the end of his chances--he dropped down to 12th place behind some top competitors. You could see his disappointment and dejection. He could have just laid down and died at that point, but he didn't. And when Wei and Suciu faltered, possibly from becoming defensive and trying to hold on to their positions rather than going all out to win, Hamm was in a position to take advantage of it. Since he had nothing to loose by going all out, he did. His program was virtually free of mistakes and had losts of risk--the three clean releases and the stuck landing were impressive. He only won by a very narrow margin--the slightest error would have dropped him.

    Sure gymnastics judging is subjective within certain guidelines, as are many other sports. That's just how it is and athletes who go into those sports know that and the smart ones work it to their advantage. If you want good examples, remember what happened in the ladies' figure skating in the '94 and '98 Winter Olympics, when energy, athleticism, flashiness, and enthusiasm won out over excellent technical performances.

    As for the Koreans, sure it's disappointing to come so close and not get it, but, on the other hand, if the others had performed clean programs, they wouldn't have medaled at all.
     
  13. V1lau

    V1lau Regular Member

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    Paul Hamm, after looking at the results breakdown was very fortunate...and if you look at the break down Yang Wei...was probably going to win this competition...but something about athens is funny. Paul Hamm vault received 3 scores higher than 9.2 US judge and Puerto Rico judge scored it 9.2 and Portugal somehow gave it a 9.3 unbelieveable...you look at the other scores by ger, ukr, iceland gave it 9.1, 9.0, 9.05 that is a .15 difference, plus it didn't even have a starting value of 10, it had a starting value of 9.9...so he should of received something way less than 9.137...should have been 9.05 and thats generous. With that adjusted score he only gets a bronze which is what Paul Hamm was expecting. Yang Wei who is doing a Vault with a Start Value of 10 and even the annoucer said the vault is "incredible", "inhuman" receives 9.512, he lands it takes a step on the line get highest score 9.55 with of course USA, POR giving it the lowest 9.45...so lets compare the two: average vault crash into the scorers table 9.3...Incredible,inhuman vault small step to his left 9.45...WTF...thats ridiculous....fortunate for Paul Hamm Yang Wei made his mistake with only 0ne round to go...since up to this point Yang Wei Starting value have all been 10, he probably just wanna protect his lead so he chose 9.8 going into the 5th round(high bar) which he is freaking good and thats when he messed up and he get nail with a 8.987, if he get the same score Paul Hamm gets for his vault 9.137 instead of 8.987 and get a percentage better for his incredible vault that only he can do...and instead of giving up on the floor exercise which Yang Wei is capable of 9.9-9.8 instead of 9.6, he wins the gold instead of Paul Hamm who gets fourth behind the two koreans.......just like that diving event something is fishy in athens

    Research material: Final break down, plus each round break down
    http://www.nbcolympics.com/results/5000175/detail.html
    where i got my info, check it urself if you think I am lying
     
    #13 V1lau, Aug 20, 2004
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2004
  14. Hugo

    Hugo Regular Member

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    Well, I just found this:

    from CBC.ca website

    Korea appeals men's all-round gymnastics results

    CBC SPORTS ONLINE - South Korea has launched a protest concerning the scores of Kim Dae-eun and Yang Tae-young, the silver and bronze medallists respectively in the men's all-around gymnastics event.
    "It has been decided that the FIG will proceed to the immediate analysis of the men's all-round competition," International Gymnastics Federation president Bruno Grandi said in a statement on Friday.

    "In the case that judging errors have occurred, appropriate steps will be made immediately," Grandi said.

    World champion Paul Hamm of the U.S. won the gold medal in the event despite falling in the vault component. The South Koreans allege that the relatively unheralded Kim and Yang did not receive the marks they merited.

    More to follow.

    This may just get interesting... and I agree, either Korea was given too low of scores (just to let u know who win) or PH was given too high of scores, especially after such a miss on the landing.
     
  15. gossip_lover

    gossip_lover Regular Member

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    i agree....this appeal will certainly be VERY interesting....I hope that hamm's score will be bumped down...the koreans bumped up....and i know i may be dreaming...but maybe yang wei's score will bump up ....giving him a bronze or somethin.....hehehehhe;) ;)
     
  16. rayeraye

    rayeraye Regular Member

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    i personally think paul hamms vault score was a little high. oh well, what can you do. americans have the money and power to bribe the judges.
     
  17. Californian

    Californian Regular Member

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    The contention in the protest is that the 3rd place Korean was given too low of a start value, so his final score would have been higher, giving him 1st place.

    Even if it is determined there was an error, it is considered to be too late to change the final outcome. The most that could be done would be to make the Korean a co-winner with Hamm the way it was done with the Canadian figure-skating pair at the last Winter Olympics.

    The most mature response came from the Korean himself:

    "At the medalists’ news conference Wednesday, Yang was asked about the close result and the judging.

    “What’s done is done,†he said. “I got this result because of my own mistake, so I should not complain. I must accept the outcome.â€

    In other words, any time you lose a close contest due to an officiating or scoring mistake, there are always places where you could have done better and made the mistake a non-issue. Any top athlete knows this.

    Allegations of the US bribing officials or getting favored treatment have no foundation, and lacking this, cannot be taken seriously.
     
  18. V1lau

    V1lau Regular Member

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    What do you expect him to say..."yeah the judges messed up and gave the American my medal"...please....Paul ham deserves a third in my opinion...a brilliant performance to come back, but 9.137 on the vault is ridiculous...with 2 scores over 9.2 on being USA...come on...and to say there is no favoritism giving in gymnastics is obviously denying the facts and logic...and the bribing comment was a joke, I can't believe anyone would take that comment seriously and try to use it to strengthen their argument. In an era of such technological advancement, sports such as gymnastic should really take advantage of these technologies to create a more perfect scoring system. A system able to cancel out the human factor and only take in the performance factor.

    Thats it for me on this subject...I don't even like gymnastics, I hope I am wrong and there is no favoritism in gymnastics and Paul Hamm did deserve a gold...but all the facts I have anaylized has me thinking the contrary...whats done is done and now on to the next thread.
     
  19. chuck317

    chuck317 Regular Member

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    Appeal upheld... the Korean bronze medalist should have got an extra 0.1 which would have won... 3 judges are suspended... but Hamm keeps Gold. Because "the judges marks were final".

    In that case can't they issue him an extra Gold medal? IIRC that's what happened with something similar in the skating in the Winter Olympics. :confused:
     
  20. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    this further support the argument why events based on artisitic merit should be changed or eliminated. Same as like in pair figure skating, canadian skated flawlessly while russian fell but russian got gold. Later IOC issued another gold medal for canadian pair, 2 gold, how silly.

    ballroom dancing had lobbied long and hard as an olympic event before they say if badminton get it, why not ballroom dancing :rolleyes:

    ballroom dancing judging is mostly artistic based, i could imagine the favortism that would hurt the olympic spirit even more.
     

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