Stranded -only to see the opponent drop or smash

[tblrg]

Sometimes I am caught stranded after a high(near the net) lift or a clear to the backcourt and the opponent drops the birdie in front. This happens when I am not certain if the opponent is going to clear or drop. After the lift I take a few steps back to prepare for the return(stay on the toes). I still fail to move forward(for drops) quickly. How do I train to have a quicker reaction time?

 

[ralphz]

You should do the clear of lift, then move to your base.

Your base would vary depending on whether it's singles or doubles.. or if it's "half court singles"... (Official games are singles and doubles, but half court singles is a useful game)..

And your base depends on where you lifted or cleared it to.

Half court singles is a fantastic thing for this..

And even an exercise in the half court where you lift it, And you move to your base.. And they clear it. And you go for it, clear it. Then move to your base. And then ready for the next shot from them.. whether they do a drop or clear or smash.

And this translates really well for eg doubles.. .As the base in doubles after a clear or lift, is similar to half court singles

There's lots of factors here..

Whether you are "standing" in the right place..

Whether you did a good lift or good clear and even have time to get into the right place.

How your weight is distributed in your stance in your ready position while you stand at your base.

Your familiarity with the footwork to move forwards, and the footwork to move backwards. And to the different areas in front and back.

Your speed at recovering to your base.

Your ability to recover to your base quickly and with good footwork, wherever the last shot was hit to.

"Stay on toes" is a bit simplistic and maybe more for the ballerinas.. Your ready stance shouldn't be very flat footed and on your heels, it should be towards the ball of the feet a bit but not too much otherwise you'd be wobbling around, and certainly not behond that onto the toes, otherwise you are going into ballerina territory. You want quite a bit of bend in the knees..

So you're not talking about a minor (I won't say problem, but), thing. And if you were really at getting whatever shot they play then you'd be a very good player. And it takes a lot of skill and training and some physical ability to be a very good player. And against a good enough opponent you could often find yourself in this situation often.. And as you get better you might find it could take longer for an opponent to get you into that situation.

Another thing is getting confident with them just playing one shot(they clear), but you position ready for any. Then when you're confident with retreiving that shot, then them just playing a drop. Then, when you are confident with that, then mixing them. e.t.c. then adding in a smash.

A half court exercise like that translates amazingly to doubles .. There'd be singles versions too so using full court.

You're basically getting at how to play a good shot i n this case, lift or (at least somewhat defensive) clear, (or a clear far enough away from them), to give you time to get into position, and to then get the next shot wherever it is.. That's much of what badminton is about. "from here, can you get over there , can you get over there / can you get to this, can you get to that".

If you had video then some could comment on eg your stance, position, quality of shot, footwork there, footwork to base. What it is that is causing you to not "get there".

 

[tblrg]

Thank you for the reply. Appreciate the insights. I did not consider the possibility of the half court exercise.

At 57 I feel my response mechanism may be slowing down. That could be one reason. Earlier in my 20s I was an intermediate to advanced player with a few games at the state and national levels. Didn't get to play for the next 3 decades after several injuries including torn ACL on both my knees and broken ankle. Started playing few years back and now starting to sharpen my skills. No compliants, but growing frustration.

Yes, you are correct. Training will help to quicken my moves. My recovery to the base has improved in the last few months, but the issue has been after I wait for the opponent to return - results in a 'stalled' state. What I meant by saying "stay on my toes," is that I am waiting in a neutral position, both feet straight (until the opponent returns), knees slightly bent, in line (plus or minus 1-2 feet) with the opponent and racket is ready in front of my body while I lean my upper body towards the direction the birdie is expected to me. Inertia needed to quickly move the feet in the direction is birdie is slow.

You have given me few things to consider. Let me find a trainer this week. Will come back to you in a few weeks.

Ralphz, Thank you.

 

[Cheung]

At 57 I feel my response mechanism may be slowing down. That could be one reason. Earlier in my 20s I was an intermediate to advanced player with a few games at the state and national levels. Didn't get to play for the next 3 decades after several injuries including torn ACL on both my knees and broken ankle.

Definitely slowing down. How’s your weight?

With an injury history like yours, and a prolonged period away, expectations should be moderated.

To help, I would also add better anticipation and of course better leg strength. Some drops are there not to be reached and if you can, it’s a pleasant bonus.

 

[UkPlayer]

I used to be extremely fast footwork wise and get to everything and I've been slowing for years, decades even. My coach has focused on this specific thing the last few weeks.

You have to become more tactical than you were. When you lift then you have to position to focus on the most likely places the shuttle is going to go and watch your opponents body to see what they're doing.

Lift to the right corner the most likely focus is the front right drop and the right rear clear. Position for these two and focus on the drop as it's easier to move to take the shuttle behind you. You should have more time to take the cross rear also. The cross court drop watch to see if your opponent turns their body to get a read on that. Reverse for the other side, and you are going to have to get a solid backhand if you don't have one already as we just lack the flexibility to do as effective overheads getting older.

 

[tblrg]

UKP - You have provided me an awesome tactical advise. I will execute the suggested approach when I get back on the court next week. Expecting to get a trainer/sparring partner to work on improving the turnaround/reaction time. Thank you.

 

[dnewguy]

Hello,

Great points already made.
I'm not a singles player but I face similar issues every now & then.
I would like to share my experience.

(Other than a slippery court) The biggest reason for me being caught with frozen feet is the quality of the split step.

1. I have heard that ideal timing is milliseconds before the opponent makes his/her shot but in my situation half a second to a second before 'the contact' is also working fine. If I try to time it very close then most of the time I'm late.
2. A purely side split step (feet under the shoulders) doesn't help retrieving drops/clears. So I prefer keeping the racquet foot bit ahead.
3. If my opponent is more proficient at drops then I shift my base forward, if his clears are giving me more trouble then I linger more towards the back. If the opponent has good down the line smash then I keep my lifts near the mid.
4. We keep hearing how footwork is essential for singles and I have realised that shot selection is next. Many times we don't realise how many extra steps we take to retrieve a shot. For egs if it's a drop at the short service line we either move too close to the net or to retrieve a clear our momentum takes us a few steps out of the court. All those steps delay our recovery_makes us late for the next shot, not to mention drains energy.
5. At the time your opponent is making his/her shot.. you need to stop moving. Sometimes when we lift from near the net we scurry back with a voice inside our head, "f it's short.. a smash is coming - run". I try to block that panic reflex and simply get ready for defence wherever I am with my racquet at eye level. The results might surprise you.

 

[akatsuki2104]

I have heard that ideal timing is milliseconds before the opponent makes his/her shot but in my situation half a second to a second before 'the contact' is also working fine. If I try to time it very close then most of the time I'm late.

I would say the opposite. If you try to split (directional split step) before the shot, that would mean it is a guess game unless you are really good at reading the game. Against players that have great form (every shot would look the same) or tricky players, that would be difficult to predict. For me, you have to split once you have decided where to go. That would happen just after the opponent hit the shuttle and you see where the shuttle will land.

 

[dnewguy]

I would say the opposite. If you try to split (directional split step) before the shot, that would mean it is a guess game unless you are really good at reading the game. Against players that have great form (every shot would look the same) or tricky players, that would be difficult to predict. For me, you have to split once you have decided where to go. That would happen just after the opponent hit the shuttle and you see where the shuttle will land.

Everybody should play to their strength & try to overcome their weakness.
So if you're slow then you must be ready for the most dangerous shots that your opponent can execute with minimum effort. Ofcourse if you're playing against a super opponent who can play good shots from any corner to anywhere on your court then yeah you should stand dead centre with standard split step and move only after they have made contact with shuttle.

I'm a hobby player and that too mostly MD. So such player is hard to come my way (I would love to play against him/her).

My point is we all love to play our favourite shots most of the time. Once you have figured out what your opponent likes then just be ready for it rather than an inconceivable crosscourt backhand clear.

 

[akatsuki2104]

Everybody should play to their strength & try to overcome their weakness.
So if you're slow then you must be ready for the most dangerous shots that your opponent can execute with minimum effort. Ofcourse if you're playing against a super opponent who can play good shots from any corner to anywhere on your court then yeah you should stand dead centre with standard split step and move only after they have made contact with shuttle.

I'm a hobby player and that too mostly MD. So such player is hard to come my way (I would love to play against him/her).

My point is we all love to play our favourite shots most of the time. Once you have figured out what your opponent likes then just be ready for it rather than an inconceivable crosscourt backhand clear.

I haven't talk about being weak or slow, high level or not. Just that in my opinion, what I said is the correct way to time the split step.
Standing dead center is wrong though. It should be adjusted accordingly.

 

[ralphz]

If you try to split (directional split step) before the shot, that would mean it is a guess game unless you are really good at reading the game. Against players that have great form (every shot would look the same) or tricky players, that would be difficult to predict. For me, you have to split once you have decided where to go. That would happen just after the opponent hit the shuttle and you see where the shuttle will land.

A thing I have heard is landing once you know where it's going.One can also elongate the landing bit.

I've definitely elongated the landing bit. Cos it takes me a while to figure out where it's going.

I have heard that directional split steps are quite an advanced thing.

I haven't played in a while but I would use a neutral split step. Sometimes the footwork itself puts the feet into a position where they are front back.

I've seen a former county champion in their 50s who never even trained split steps. He'd do them sometimes as a natural thing, natural with a wide stance and timing the recovery footwork to land around when they hit it.

And one can elongate the landing of the split step to buy some time for figuring out where the shuttle is going, which as you say is after they hit it. I did once hear from a great player that he knows before the sound. For me i think it's some time after I hear the sound! Perhaps a great player might see where the racket was facing when it was hit.

I did watch a game in slow mo a while back looking out for when they moved off, and the shuttle travels some distance before they know where it's going and move off.

A directional split step can be as subtle as shifting the weight to bias one direction .. some might do it naturally, and against a good player that's often a mistake. No doubt it can be done well though if trained.

 

[akatsuki2104]

A thing I have heard is landing once you know where it's going

I have heard that directional split steps are quite an advanced thing.

Yes, that's my point. Directional split allows you to have your feet positioned and move faster. There are times when you don't know where the shuttle will go, that's when you would use neutral split, at least to be able to pounce quickly.

I did once hear from a great player that he knows before the sound

That's the case when you read the shot (either by experience or by looking at the player's racquet) so you can split earlier

At least, that's what I'm doing. I am just an average player

 

[Cheung]

That's the case when you read the shot (either by experience or by looking at the player's racquet) so you can split earlier

Exactly. Which goes back to developing better anticipation as mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

[UkPlayer]

A thing I have heard is landing once you know where it's going.One can also elongate the landing bit.

I've definitely elongated the landing bit. Cos it takes me a while to figure out where it's going.

I have heard that directional split steps are quite an advanced thing.

I haven't played in a while but I would use a neutral split step. Sometimes the footwork itself puts the feet into a position where they are front back.

If you are going to do a single type of split step in singles when you're relatively central to your base then racket leg slightly forward is best because it makes reaching the overhead corner easier. Very easy to adjust to and will make an instant improvement.

Also I agree with atasuki to split step after the shuttle is hit rather than before it whether you are doing directional or not. Better to be too late with the split step than too early. Too early you leaves you in danger of moving too soon in the wrong direction which is more difficult to correct from than if you split step late.

 

[UkPlayer]

At least, that's what I'm doing. I am just an average player

You're way above average from the videos I've seen. Very good movement.

 

[akatsuki2104]

You're way above average from the videos I've seen. Very good movement.

Hahaha thanks

 

[ralphz]

If you are going to do a single type of split step in singles when you're relatively central to your base then racket leg slightly forward is best because it makes reaching the overhead corner easier. Very easy to adjust to and will make an instant improvement.

By neutral split step, I don't mean feet side by side without one being slightly in front of the other. I mean non-directional. (I used to say non-directional, but I was told that's not a standard term and the standard term is neutral!). Directional being some bias which i think is more to do with weight distribution than feet position..

And yeah when at the back (so not central), and in singles then I do see players with feet very front back. (which I understand isn't necessarily classed as a directional split step 'cos that can be just footwork involving having their feet in that form of ready position, not to bias a particular thing in anticipation)

And I agree the racket foot a bit further forward, in order to get more to the RTH rear corner, is important.. as the footwork is more like a slide and pivot, than a hop and pivot. The momentum (from racket foot slightly further in front in the ready position), make it faster to get there. And I do that position when "central" as you mention.

Also I agree with atasuki to split step after the shuttle is hit rather than before it whether you are doing directional or not. Better to be too late with the split step than too early. Too early you leaves you in danger of moving too soon in the wrong direction which is more difficult to correct from than if you split step late.

I don't think i'd ever start a split step before they've hit it so I agree with you and he on that. (though maybe some might if they do a high split step, though iirc high spit step might be a bit old fashioned? I know some players would do higher split step when further back)

Even doing a split step straight after the shuttle is hit, I suppose means you're starting the split step before you know where it's going?

Suppose the shuttle is hit, the player hears the sound (so now the shuttle has travelled a bit), the player hasn't figured out where the shuttle is going yet, starts the split step before they know where it's going. (And can land once they know where it's going). Would you say that's too early? Or at risk of being too early?

 

[akatsuki2104]

Suppose the shuttle is hit, the player hears the sound (so now the shuttle has travelled a bit), the player hasn't figured out where the shuttle is going yet, starts the split step before they know where it's going. (And can land once they know where it's going). Would you say that's too early? Or at risk of being too early?

It's too early. Once you are mid air, it is really difficult to change your feet position. So once you land, if your feet position is correct then good, if wrong, you'll have to split again.

Here are some situations I can think of (waiting/ready position = one foot ahead) + example from my actual match (I'm in white/black):

- I see where the shuttle goes, directional split, go (that should be the ideal situation)

- My timing is a bit early or split to the wrong direction, do second split
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx4-T9Qeopg6-060E_KBNANdiR-AN1Za4v?si=06w7-8TZ8ni3UzaG
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx8WeX6ufiNajbTo7o0Vom1kLjfKzbEaAI?si=lYaSh6b-hLFMkOLP
First split was wrong, second correct
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx_Rf9921hVDfWJU4vPW1iHqnBrZuFSeJl?si=t_AGkStW_A2b3CKW
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxLayRcK9LjumarFE2u2t3AQnbQNmgNDhK?si=wJ8OX_eL_1RtSOIB
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx2YtFndVv7RrbySqYL99DAf1dnhmnetzL?si=6Dqq2elRch902IzE
Here, wrong split but could split again quickly
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx3Okti_vL3kSWzY6LE4qLay6uv93wnuzV?si=52FkFBygGLNLw7hJ
Wrong footed a lot in this rally

- Neutral split (feet in the same position as ready but wider) as I don't know where to go, this kind of work
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxzgTslyKhSzRbDyZbw2QN8jDlelYpaXqY?si=26VnGU37CHiNEWq3

- Anticipate, directional split early
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxQFb3sAIwJz1EKv6s3_VUaLCn0U7illrD?si=ajxMyGJ3rvTr7bYC
Saw the cross lift

 

[Cheung]

in singles then I do see players with feet very front back. (which I understand isn't necessarily classed as a directional split step 'cos that can be just footwork involving having their feet in that form of ready position, not to bias a particular thing in anticipation)

Here it is important to have context.

What sort of players?
What sort of shot are they receiving or expecting?

For receiving a smash or a drop, having the feet placed very front back is a significant disadvantage for sideways movement and probably these singles players have limitations in their all court movement.

 

[ralphz]

Here it is important to have context.

Looks like you were replying to an early version of the post cos since 7:30pm yesterday I had added some elaboration

And yeah when at the back (so not central), and in singles then I do see players with feet very front back.(which I understand isn't necessarily classed as a directional split step 'cos that can be just footwork involving having their feet in that form of ready position, not to bias a particular thing in anticipation)

To elaborate further I had in mind after doing a drop. (Though I haven't ever trained it much).

As for receiving a potential smash, I think in doubles some players do take them quite far back and stand with feet very front back to help them come forward incase the opponent does a drop. I recall training that a bit a few years ago and hearing it's a modern way. The other way, very classical famous way which I'm sure is still valid today cos I also trained it a few years ago, is racket foot just a bit ahead of non racket foot.

You make a good point that that wouldn't apply in singles.

Another case of feet very front back iirc is in singles, after doing a smash .
(In doubles for sure after a smash feet wouldn't be very front back unless perhaps some rotation was going on).