Too slow shuttles - The german problem

[Z-Force III]

Over several month, I discovered that various people here have the same issue like me which was named in different threads. @s_mair, @Rob3rt @Charlie-SWUK

I don't know who of the BC members came across the problem to play with too slow shuttles all the time or very often. In my club it is an established method to bend the feathers and ignore the speed test.

We all know the rules for choosing the correct speed. Taken from the Laws of Badminton:

Spoiler

TESTING A SHUTTLE FOR SPEED

3.1 To test a shuttle, a player shall use a full underhand stroke which makes contact with the shuttle over the back boundary line. The shuttle shall be hit at an upward angle and in a direction parallel to the side lines.

3.2 A shuttle of correct speed will land not less than 530 mm and not more than 990 mm short of the other back boundary line as in Diagram B.

DIAGRAM B

Never the less, I heard from several members, which play at different club in Germany, that this test and rule get ignored. We don't want to discuss about the rules in gerneral, the sense etc.

I just want to share my experiences and want to hear your experience and entertaining stories of strange people.

Here are some quotes from some guys in a hijacked thread and this is the reason why I started this thread because this problem is experienced by many players.

Full conversation:

Spoiler

I would, but the clubs I play at use ridiculously slow shuttles, the same during winter and summer!

Ouch. That blows mate.

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Ikr.

"Damn, I hit a clear out. That can't be right... shuttle is to fast..."

Learn some control...

The German Problem. We had 32 degrees, I sweat like roast meat in the oven, then a guy in my doubles match started to bend every second feather of my shuttle. I said "Schlag doch erstmal durch, du Vogel." He tested the speed of the bend shuttle. Shuttle land into the mid court. He said "Ist doch gut."

I agree with @Rob3rt. If a lift, clear or a push/drive/smash goes out, the shuttle is always too fast. These guys have absolute no feel, control and are unable to adjust. If I lifted sometimes out, they always ask to bend and always say "It's too fast". Never play badminton in Germany.

I apologise if I'm being rude but, I'm starting to get the impression that German badminton players are generally idiots.

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Haha, it's consoling to hear that this problem not only occurs at our club.

Lol, because of two Germans telling you about their club members using too slow shuttles?

In a way yeah. If it can happen in 2 separate places from 2 different sources. What's the odds it doesn't happen in most other places?

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I heard @Charlie-SWUK is having the same problem in the UK...

Damn. Maybe it's a trend to not buy the right speed of shuttles in Europe with cold weather?

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It's more the domination of the badminton dinosaurs who claim BG65 at 9kg a "damn hard stringing job."

Not sure if this helps in any way, but here I am, adding a third german club with the exact same issue. 30°C, speed test of a brand new A300 (my A300!) lands spot on the doubles service line. First rally, opponent fires a totally messed up, fully horizontal smash about 1.5 meters long of the base line. What should I say... the shuttle ended with each feather bent right next time he held the shuttle in his hands. And he was so quick, there was no chance stopping him. Next time I seriously think of sending him an invoice.

For most players around here the shuttle has the correct speed when they are able to hit a max-power clear or lift and it still lands inside. And what's bugging me lately with slow shuttles: They are a lot of times the rootcause for timing issues that seems to be the racket's fault.

You sure we're not playing at the same club?! This sounds very familiar, unfortunately...

As somebody who thinks that they are all evil: It's often a procedure to get advantages. A slow shuttle will be prevented from hitting out, the smashs are not fast (prevent smashing out with a flat angle and makes defence a bit easier) and drives don't fly out. The backhand clear of your opponents get a bit shorten. It slow down the total game, so that Grandpa Manfred can get the monster smash after he popped some Valiums.

Pretty sure. I think I would have noticed you and your Li-Ning collection long time ago.


True that. A slow shuttle only makes the game easier. That's why slow shuttles are so popular amongst hobby players. They end up with longer rallies and feel that they are playing a lot better than they actually are. In the sense of "did you see how well I got back that monster mid-court smash of yours?".

So let us talk about this disturbing issue, share stories, experiences and how to fix badminton idiots.

 

[Ch1k0]

Well the problem I've faced here isn't as severe. I don't know anyone who "tips" or bends shuttles to slow them down. I've faced more cases of people buying the inappropriate speed of shuttle or just cheaping out on shuttles. You know the kind that has poor QC and the stuff just doesn't fly like it should in the hall.

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[s_mair]

First of all, I think it all starts with slim to none knowledge about the speed testing procedure in general. Most of my club mates simply take the shuttle, position themselves somewhere around the base line (sometimes even on the double service line) and hit the shuttle with all their power at chest height. As long as the shuttle makes it to somewhere around mid-court, they seem to be fine with it. If it only gets close to the doubles service line, they seem to be frozen with fear and loudly demand feathers to be bent.

And as I said in the other thread, modifying the shuttle speed is kind of badminton's difficulty level control. The slower the shuttle, the easier (slower) the game will become:
- smashes can be returned more easily
- less control needed to keep the shuttle insinde the court
- more time available to reach the shuttle, you don't need to have that much speed in your legs
- especially in casual level doubles: The rallies get longer and more spectacular since more shots can be returned

So I feel like using slow shuttles also has a lot to do with the general level on which the people are playing. The higher the level, the more the players realise the benefits of faster shuttles. And I'm sorry to say that, but a lot of the clubs in a lot of European countries are dominated by casual hobby players.

I don't know anyone who "tips" or bends shuttles to slow them down.

You want to know the shocking truth? I haven't seen a single match in several months that was started with a non-bent or tipped shuttle. Sad but true.

 

[Ch1k0]

First of all, I think it all starts with slim to none knowledge about the speed testing procedure in general. Most of my club mates simply take the shuttle, position themselves somewhere around the base line (sometimes even on the double service line) and hit the shuttle with all their power at chest height. As long as the shuttle makes it to somewhere around mid-court, they seem to be fine with it. If it only gets close to the doubles service line, they seem to be frozen with fear and loudly demand feathers to be bent.

And as I said in the other thread, modifying the shuttle speed is kind of badminton's difficulty level control. The slower the shuttle, the easier (slower) the game will become:
- smashes can be returned more easily
- less control needed to keep the shuttle insinde the court
- more time available to reach the shuttle, you don't need to have that much speed in your legs
- especially in casual level doubles: The rallies get longer and more spectacular since more shots can be returned

So I feel like using slow shuttles also has a lot to do with the general level on which the people are playing. The higher the level, the more the players realise the benefits of faster shuttles. And I'm sorry to say that, but a lot of the clubs in a lot of European countries are dominated by casual hobby players.



You want to know the shocking truth? I haven't seen a single match in several months that was started with a non-bent or tipped shuttle. Sad but true.

Sad reality of the difference between Germany and Singapore..

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[Charlie-SWUK]

So a few things about slow shuttles.

1) They don't necessarily make it easier. A slow shuttle will have less travel time, which means you can lift flat, or basically smash clears, and they'll travel at an enormous speed towards the back but not go out.
2) They make drop shots either the most deadly weapon, or absolutely useless because they'll hover the net as they play incredibly flat lifts.

A big problem I've found is that clubs use the same shuttle all year round. Have you ever tried to play with an AS30 Speed 3 (77) in a 12 celcius hall? I have. It sucks. Now that we're near the middle of the summer, the shuttles are approaching the right speed. But bloody hell it's a nightmare most of the time.

 

[Rob3rt]

To be honest, I avoid playing with people like described above. It not always works, but sometimes you can't avoid it. Primarily I'm there to have fun and play good games and if the understanding of what a good game is differs then it's not fun for both sides. And I'm not a coach and certainly do not feel responsible for ensuring that ignorant amateurs or hopeless recreational players get a 'good game', which I don't like or profit from at all. Sorry to say!

And it's true: there's a correlation between skill level and knowledge about what shuttles to use and when to change a damaged shuttle.

 

[Charlie-SWUK]

Also, let's be absolutely clear. If you're playing with the correct shuttle speed, and they manipulate the shuttle to suit them, it's cheating. Straight up cheating. Players that do this are no different from those that serve from the neck, those that try to kill before its crossed the net, or those that make dodgy linecalls. It's all cheating.

If they don't want to play with the correct shuttle speed, then they don't want to play badminton. Maybe recommend they take up tennis instead.

 

[Z-Force III]

I come across this issue also at higher level players. We have a player who got on the podium place at the "WDM" and this person always bend the feathers with the words "I know my shuttles".

Especially my XD partner told me that most woman at our club slow down the shuttle, before they start to play the WD match. It's also a tactic in WS to make a high and deep serve, push the opponent back and come further forward to smaller the court. I don't want to say that is a general case, but my partner experienced this often.

I also observed on saturday at a tournament that opponents in my class, but not group, speed tested from the mid court. They were not hobby players.

The saddest thing is that most german badminton players don't know the rules well. They all know the soccer rules, without beeing active soccer players, but when it comes to badminton, they don't know much.

I also want to add, that a lot people here play with too low tensions. Some people don't like to hear it, but they choose these tensions, because they get more durabilty and can play with a string job a half year, when they go below 9kg.

I normally avoid anybody during training who "auf den Sack geht/get on my nerves". Sometimes you can't avoid them, but I try my best to avoid them. And if I get with them on court I'm not the person who keeps quite. Last time we change the shuttle in a match, the opponent pulled one of his tube and bend every 2nd. We play Yonex Speed 3 all the year, but our hall is well tempered during winter. I asked for speed test. He tested it. I said to slow, new shuttle please. He was not amused. He gave the shuttle and I put it aside and pulled one of my tube.

I also met people at my club who bend their whole tube at home and come to training.

 

[Charlie-SWUK]

I come across this issue also at higher level players. We have a player who got on the podium place at the "WDM" and this person always bend the feathers with the words "I know my shuttles".

Especially my XD partner told me that most woman at our club slow down the shuttle, before they start to play the WD match. It's also a tactic in WS to make a high and deep serve, push the opponent back and come further forward to smaller the court. I don't want to say that is a general case, but my partner experienced this often.

I also observed on saturday at a tournament that opponents in my class, but not group, speed tested from the mid court. They were not hobby players.

I normally avoid anybody during training who "auf den Sack geht/get on my nerves". Sometimes you can't avoid them, but I try my best to avoid them. And if I get with them on court I'm not the person who keeps quite. Last time we change the shuttle in a match, the opponent pulled one of his tube and bend every 2nd. We play Yonex Speed 3 all the year, but our hall is well tempered during winter. I asked for speed test. He tested it. I said to slow, new shuttle please. He was not amused. He gave the shuttle and I put it aside and pulled one of my tube.

I also met people at my club who bend their whole tube at home and come to training.

All of this posted here, is straight up cheating. Tell them they should stop trying to cheat.

 

[Z-Force III]

All of this posted here, is straight up cheating. Tell them they should stop trying to cheat.

Tbh, I feel you and agree, but it's very time wasting, if you tell idiots, to stop doing idotic things, which they do since ages. If they meet me, I do all that they don't include me in the future happily.

I tried before to spread and discuss, I have the rules always in my bag, but everybody "forgot his glasses at home" when it gets serious or they suspect that I'm right. It's the same with the guys who do a clearly illegal serve since 10 years or hit a shuttle on opponents side. Life is short, so I stopped to waste my time on them and stick with a few normal people.

 

[Rob3rt]

Tbh, I feel you and agree, but it's very time wasting, if you tell idiots, to stop doing idotic things, which they do since ages. If they meet me, I do all that they don't include me in the future happily.

I tried before to spread and discuss, I have the rules always in my bag, but everybody "forgot his glasses at home" when it gets serious or they suspect that I'm right. It's the same with the guys who do a clearly illegal serve since 10 years or hit a shuttle on opponents side. Life is short, so I stopped to waste my time on them and stick with a few normal people.

Wow, the more you tell the more I think I should be happy and stop complaining so much, because your situation seems to be a lot worse...

 

[Rob3rt]

I come across this issue also at higher level players. We have a player who got on the podium place at the "WDM" and this person always bend the feathers with the words "I know my shuttles".

That's a disgrace. Why on earth would you keep on buying shuttles you know are too fast (in your opinion)?

Even if the shuttle has the correct speed after tipping it still has different characteristics than an 'untipped' shuttle.

 

[Z-Force III]

Wow, the more you tell the more I think I should be happy and stop complaining so much, because your situation seems to be a lot worse...

I would like to hear your insider stories, too. I have the impression, that you can be a real badass like me, when somebody get on your nerves.

 

[Rob3rt]

I would like to hear your insider stories, too. I have the impression, that you can be a real badass like me, when somebody get on your nerves.

Okay, here's one for you:

There's this one guy at our club that apparently likes to warm up with shuttles I would throw in the trash can. He also grunts a little every time he smashes. So one day the shuttle he used to warm up was so darn slow that he even grunted when playing 'clears'. His partner and him were hitting 'clears' with full force which didn't even make it to the midcourt (not lying!). This was going on for a few minutes (while my buddy and me were laughing our asses off) until they started sweating heavily and joking about not being able to play a game anymore now.

 

[Rob3rt]

Oh, and one thing I forgot and probably pisses me off the most:

When you ask for a change of shuttle and they pick one from their tube and pass it to you and then you have a look at the shuttle (because you're serving), and notice that it's already been used. A lot. Like, WTF man!?

 

[Z-Force III]

Oh, and one thing I forgot and probably pisses me off the most:

When you ask for a change of shuttle and they pick one from their tube and pass it to you and then you have a look at the shuttle (because you're serving), and notice that it's already been used. A lot. Like, WTF man!?

Haha. Had it on a tournament. My AS20 was worn in the middle of the 1st set after my smash. My partner said to the opponents "It's your turn." Opponent walks offcourt to collect his tube, pulled one off. A Victor shuttle. After 2-3 rallys the shuttle was "am eiern/flying not good". It was well used before. I asked for a new one. Opponent freezes. My partner said "Jetzt mal einen neuen bitte und nicht so einen Krüppelball." Opponent steps to his tube, pull out a new one. Give it to me to test the speed. Take a look: Used RSL No.4. Speed Test and shuttle had also a tumbling flight. I went to my tube, pulled a new one out. Opponent "Wasn't good? I think it is okay." After the match my partner pointed with her racket to the side of the court and the box full of used shuttles and said "Steck euch die auch noch ein/ put the used ones in your tube"

 

[kurdy_]

Here are some comments after reading this stories :

1) In France, usually, clubs buy shuttles and sell them at a lower price to players. That can explain why you play with shuttles you're not really found off. Is it the same in Germany (or other country) ?

2) During tournaments, there is an official shuttle. If players disagree on the shuttles, they have to buy this shuttles (sold in the gymnasium) and play without bending them. I never saw that happen (I play since 1988, with a lot of competitions). Is it the same rule in your country ?

3) I never played against opponents in competition trying to give a old shuttle !

4) We always try 3 or 4 shuttles before the match starts, not to be annoyed with this kind of problem during the game.

5) Sometimes (but it's very rare), I can't manage to agree with my opponent on a shuttle speed, I make him understand with a cordial conversation. Then I play a few points and ask the shuttle to be changed. My intelligent opponent usually understands that he had what he wanted and then it must be my turn !

6) If this doesn't happen, I take that as a challenge and change my game to fit the more with the shuttle carateristics !

7) Just one time (I'm not proud of that !) I "accidentally" walked on the shuttle (Oh ! Sorry ! I didn't see it...). But the shuttle was not the only problem in this match !

8) Facing shuttle problem with your teammates in your club ?? Wow, this is not a friendly atmosphere !!

But I have no fears, if you're still playing and loving the game, this shuttle problems must not arrive very often !

 

[Z-Force III]

@kurdy_

1) We have discounted shuttles and a contract with Yonex. I get the tube for nearly half the price like all other members of my club. For league games for free.

2) Depends on the tournament. Here, if you participate at private tournaments which are organized by a club or even Ranglisten/Ranking tournaments, you have a list for each season of accepted shuttles, but need to provide them by your own. Some tournaments restrict the shuttles to just one model, most not.

How leagues are structured and run, how competions are structured and run are different in every country. I have came across some videos of low level matches in Canada with plastics and they have court officials. Here even in the upper leagues you don't get court officials. Just the highest leagues get them and pay them. Most halls are not designed for line judges and umpires and it's very pricey to pay officials just for a lower to mid level league day or tournament, so mostly the costs are canceled.

 

[phihag]

@ucantseeme Where can I buy those slow shuttles? I feel that mine are often way too fast, especially in the summer (YONEX speed 3). That being said, I rarely actually manage a full underhand shot, so I have to deduct a little. In my clubs, often all players test the shuttle, so you can simply take the maximum distance and base the distance on that.

I am surprised to hear you experience lots of disagreements. In my experience, the tipping is quite amicable almost all of the time.

As an umpire, I sometimes see disagreements, but even then, that's easy to resolve - only count the shot that landed farthest, and if in doubt, do not tip. As usual, refer to §62.2 of the NRW regulations if there's no umpire: Then both clubs (usually the team captains) decide together.

 

[Cheung]

I feel that mine are often way too fast

@ucantseeme ... you had better not play with @phihag !