Umpiring: Shuttle Change refusal scenarios

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by cobalt, Nov 5, 2014.

  1. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    It doesn't happen too often, but it does happen once in a way, and I am almost always left asking, "Why?"

    The receiver requests (gestures to?) the server for the shuttle to be changed. Server agrees, requests (gestures to?) the umpire for the shuttle change.

    OR

    The server requests (gestures to?) the receiver for his acceptance for the shuttle to be changed. Receiver agrees, and server requests (gestures to?) the umpire for the shuttle change.

    So, both players are agreeable to changing the bird.

    Mostly, the umpire just gestures to the server to go ahead.

    But sometimes, the umpire asks the server to bring him the shuttlecock, then inspects, and refuses permission for the shuttlecock to be changed. When this happens, I have almost always heard the commentators wonder why the umpire did not give permission.

    Perhaps there is an explanation. Can anyone help?
     
  2. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Delay of play perhaps?
     
  3. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Maybe the commentary team have just misunderstood that both players agreed, after all their gesture can be quite subtle and maybe it is clearer from the umpires chair.
    Other reason maybe even the umpire can't work out if they have both agreed clearly so just say's "gimme a look, shuttles fine play"
     
  4. DuckFeet

    DuckFeet Regular Member

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    I thought it was generally when the Chinese/danish disagree with the request just to play mind games. Not nice to see. I think it was CTC who was all ready to serve, looked up and was all like "oh yeah, sorry mate" and changed without a second thought. That's nice to see.

    Who doesnt like brand new shuttles anyway? Surely bo/mo "preferring them a bit roughed up and slower" is not ideal as Most of play is with new shuttles? I appreciate it gets tatty in a long rally but percentage wise you're better preferring fresh feathers I expect.
     
  5. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    It's not about when the players disagree. Both players clearly and visibly agree, but for some reason the umpire says to play on with the shuttle, after examining it.

    Playing for time cannot be the valid reason IMO. It takes about as much time to carry the bird to the umpire, get it checked (and refused) as it would to go to the service judge and change the bird.

    The commentators are all ex-players of course, and their opinion is almost consistently "why does the umpire refuse when both players agree on changing the shuttle?" The underlying argument appears to be (and I could be wrong here) that the players are better judges of the condition of the shuttle- maybe they noticed something during the rally that they didn't like?
     
  6. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Maybe it's just a simple case of the umpire wanted to exert his authority and power a bit just to remind the players who's the boss... ;)
     
  7. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Ok cobalt have you got a video where both sides very clearly agreed to change? So we can go "it wasn't clear" lol.
    Probably the time wasting thing though. Yes it would take same time that one time but it sets a message for them to stop changing so much and wasting time in future.
     
  8. Winex West Can

    Winex West Can Regular Member

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    According to BWF Handbook on "Recommendations to Technical Officers", Section 3.5.7 "Change of Shuttle", it is stated "3.5.7.1 Changing the shuttle during a match shall not be unfair. The Umpire shall decide if the shuttle needs to be changed"

    It is not up to the players to decide even if both sides agrees, hence that's why the players gestures to the Umpire before walking to the Service Judge to get a new shuttle.
     
  9. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    But if both sides already agreed to change, who's it unfair to when the umpire decides it shouldn't be changed. Granted it doesn't happen often, but I've seen it a few times... and I scratch my head, along with the players...
     
  10. boon_keng

    boon_keng Regular Member

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    These "mind games" or sportsmanship by the players are childish and it's bad for the paying viewers (at least for me)......

    They should just tweak the rule such that only the serving party has the option to change the bird, with the umpire having the final say.......you lose the point, you don't get to change shuttles, fair deal.
     
  11. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    Yes, this both sides agree and the umpire says no is extremely rare.

    Like the above said, maybe the umpire can't tell from their gestures. Sometimes 1 side wants to change, the other side just looks at me and I can't tell, is that a yes and they are waiting for my approval, or do they want me to take a look at the shuttle? I usually take a look at the shuttle unless I can see from afar that the shuttle can be changed. That or they hold the shuttle up to me, or some other weird variant where I can't tell if they are saying no & want me to look at the shuttle, or are just quiet and want me to make a decision or what.
     
  12. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    ^ Lol......
     
  13. Nauroa

    Nauroa Regular Member

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    Most likely this in my opinion.
     
  14. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    Can you show us an example where both players agree and the umpire does not? Haven't noticed it yet...
     
  15. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Yes, very rare but have seen it a few times... will post back when I remember...
     
  16. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Something along these lines happened in the LDvJan O match at the china open today. It was pretty funny the umpire said play with the existing shuttle after both players (not very clearly) wanted to change. Jan O just demanded it got changed and whilst he was saying this to the umpire LD went and changed it lol.
     
  17. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    ^ Doubt the umpire would chastise LD for doing that without his permission, as he's a megastar and it's being played in China. ;)
     
  18. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    That's what I'm talking about. Lin Dan should've nodded if he wanted to change the shuttle. (I'm assuming Jan was the one asking for the change, but instead of communicating yes, he just put the shuttle to the side, so the umpire assumed that he wanted the umpire to take a look at it and the umpire said play).
     

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