Why LCW can't beat LD

Discussion in 'Malaysia Professional Players' started by galaxyduo, Sep 28, 2014.

  1. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    Well, you guys saw it for yourself. Actually, you saw it twice in the Asia games. LD, at will, can shift his gear up to a 6th gear that nobody else in the world can play at.

    You saw it when LD was losing 13-20 to Hu Yun. Next thing you know, it's 22-20 and Hu Yun is wondering what in the world happened.

    You saw it when LD was losing 16-20 to LCW. Next thing you know, LCW has bad memories of WC 2011 and LD gets 6 straight points to win 22-20.

    Watch LD's body language. When LD wants to play for real, his body language shows he is more focused and serious.

    The thing is, LD has always had a 6th gear he can shift to. That's why you can see LD look like a scrub against weaker players and LD barely scrapes by. Everybody thought this was LCW's best chance to beat LD because LD looked really bad. Everybody thought that too when LD played Simon Santoso. But when LD shifts to this 6th gear, he is unbeatable (unless you are Jan O' Jorgensen and you can simply tire LD out by the 3rd set).
     
  2. paroxysmal

    paroxysmal Regular Member

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    Just typed this is other thread...posting it here too:

    Am i the only one who thinks Lin Dan version 2014 is the most difficult version than his earlier versions to beat?

    Coming to JOJ, i dont think he stands any chance when they face each other next time.

    I have been repeatedly watching Lin Dan's matches in last few months, and while everyone, including the commentators calls him rusty, i think he is the most complete player now in every department. Badminton is not always about attack. Its how you utilize you resources over a period of match or over a period of a particular tournament. I dont think any player comes even near to Lin Dan in doing that!

    Age + experience + maturity + stable head + ability to change gears whenever needed + delivering when it matters the most = Lin Dan
     
  3. losima

    losima Regular Member

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    What a show of breathtaking demolition of wei Wei. who is now 3rd in the world after being overtaken by Chen long.

    Notice how precise super Dan's net shots and rally control.

    but Wei wei can still thrash the rest
     
  4. el-tonic

    el-tonic Regular Member

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    Lee chong wei has very weak will power. He crumbles in the face of pressure. He needs to change his mental habits. Skill and technique-wise, LCW is on-par with Lin Dan. His footwork is amazing and the explosive power is there + accuracy. Lin Dan on the other hand is a little more rough around the edges.

    LD is really good at these mental attacks to gain the upper hand. Small things like refusing to change the shuttle at LCW's request. Those are small mental wins. He also regulates the pace of the game very well. During any given badminton match, there are these momentum shifts. You can feel them as a spectator. When one player wins one or two points, they get on a roll. It's an elevated mental state that allows you to chain a couple of quick points together.

    LD is really good at identifying and breaking that momentum.

    LCW needs to go through some hard military style training to harden his mind. The minute he steps on court his face is screaming "worried".
     
  5. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    I dont know what match you watched but it certainly wasn't the 2011 WC. LD saved 2 match points at 19-20 and 20-21....
    He isn't unbeatable, but he only meets LCW in the great occasion matches these days, where he is in peak condition (as his training is no doubt geared towards these big events). The loss against JOJ was a one-time thing, if anyone has a chance of tiring LD out when he's fit and motivated, it's CL and LCW - both are much fitter than JOJ.

    Still, I (kind of) agree with the original point that he has an unbelievable focus in these matches, and his confidence never wavers. LCW often starts to doubt himself in tight situations and when a game is nearing its end.
     
  6. Hulme

    Hulme New Member

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    Does this mean he's going to retire?
     
  7. fauci

    fauci Regular Member

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    Lin Dan clearly has a superior choice of shots. His wisdom on court is second to none. It's not just a mental thing as some always claim.
     
  8. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    Perhaps some of you guys experienced nervousness in some occasions. It can be a boost, but it can also slow your movements, suck in your energy. I believe the last case is what happens to LCW.
     
  9. Husky

    Husky Regular Member

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    A few reasons:
    Lin Dan playing at peak condition and under less pressure because he's not playing a tournament every week.

    Decision making: Lin Dan is such a good decision maker, both during points and for playing out a whole match, he's absolutely clinical. He knows his own body really well, and manages his match play better. the difference between strategy and tactics - being aware not just what it takes to win the point, but how to ration his effort. LCW wants to win every point. Remember when LCW put himself in hospital playing the WC final? LCW is incredibly game but a bit masochistic. Lin Dan has got a lot more wily as hes got older. He has papered over the weaknesses he had as a young player too (backhand and net game are now as good as anyone out there), and although he's not as explosive now, i think he's a really top quality technician now to make up for it

    Cheap points: LD just that bit more powerful from the back, and just that bit more clinical in the front court. He only needs one smash usually. So LCW needs to get in an absolutely massive jump, or hit 2-3 smashes more. Also, Lee Chong Wei leaves shuttles that are in a lot! Every time i see him its 2-3 a set.

    Different stakes and mentality: LD's won everything, is supremely confident of his skills. But he loves the arena and showcasing his skills, so he's still hungry for the big matches and he can pick and choose. LCW has a highly critical media on his back and has more negative pressure to contend with. I think LCW is really hard on himself and punishes himself a lot for feeling he's let his country and his team down. I suspect its very hard for LCW to convince himself *when it matters* to play with no fear. I mean, you give Chong Wei a game plan and he goes out there and tries to execute it. But the key points i think he can go into his shell a bit, where you see Lin Dan get pumped by contrast
     
  10. Husky

    Husky Regular Member

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    Also thought of this. LCW consciously shifted to the power game relatively late in his career. He bulked up a lot upper body strength and really worked on making his smash a real weapon. Back in 07 even I could smash harder :p (But not those awesome angles!)
    He was really defensive, especially against the top guys then, but even by the next year he was a real bomber, but eventually in 2010-11 he was consciously being aggressive a lot and people were running for cover! I think when Lee Chong wei shellacked Lin Dan at the All-England in straight games a lot of people thought the balance of power had shifted. However, Lin Dan's been doing that for years and i think Chong wei's a bit less natural as an attacker...
     
  11. Husky

    Husky Regular Member

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    By the way, whoever mentioned Jan O Jorgensen, he isn't remotely in the same class as LCW, LD, CL (as yet anyway) i put him in a second group with Tago (who's pushing for the very top and seems to have Chen Long's number, which is interesting.) I've become convinced CL is now operating around about the same level as Lin Dan and Lee Chong Wei the past 2 years. I still think he's a bit worse than Lee Chong Wei, overall, but head to head, he's winning the matchup. Lin dan is still The Man.
     
  12. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    In 2011 WC, LD shifted into 6th gear to make the comeback in the final points.

    As for stamina, LCW does not have more stamina than JoJ. LCW is one month from becoming 32 years old. JoJ is 26 years old. On top of that, Morten Frost has commented that JoJ had enough stamina to become a pro marathon runner.

    If you say LCW is more skilled than JoJ, I can agree with that. If you say a 32 year old has more stamina than a 26 year old, especially when Morten Frost says this 26 year old can be a pro marathon runner, I disagree with that.
     
  13. razhes

    razhes Regular Member

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    you should change the question into "is there anyone who can beat LD?" hahaha
     
  14. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    JoJ has back to back wins against LD. Check the record. Before this year, JoJ's previous win against LD was in 2012, before the Olympics.

    I don't think JoJ is a better player than LD. But if the rallies go long enough and the match goes long enough, it favors JoJ. Go back and watch JoJ's win over LD this year. You will see LD looks tired in the 3rd set while JoJ still looks fresh.
     
  15. taufik-ist

    taufik-ist Regular Member

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    Asian games 2006, MS final of individual event
    Taufik Hidayat defeated Lindan with stright set :D
     
  16. SibugiChai

    SibugiChai Regular Member

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    that was the match than taught lindan, skills can overcome speeds & power

    and since than lindan skills has improve tremendously
     
  17. dood1234

    dood1234 Regular Member

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    I agree with JOJ having the excellent stamina. Although he lost to NTM (very close games) in WC 2013, he looked fine at the end of the match while NTM was exhausted.

    NTM is also known for his endurance as he is one of the fittest players .
     
  18. dood1234

    dood1234 Regular Member

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    Definitely!
    It was that match along with the 2000 Olympics 1st round outing and 2005 World Championships Final that made him stronger mentally.
     
  19. jkkwongnz

    jkkwongnz Regular Member

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    Many fans don't know the difference between Lin Dan and Lee Chong Wei. Lee Chong Wei is almost unbeatable apart from LD and CL. I can't remember when was the last time JOJ beat Lee Chong Wei. Lin Dan can be beaten randomly by players like Park Sun Hwan, Sony K, Chen Jin, P Gade and JOJ in the minor tournaments or when he just came out from long holidays. In the titles which he is serious about, I can't see anybody can stop him now even he is not 100%. JOJ may have good stamina but I don't think he has enough skills to beat an in form Lin Dan in the tournament that LD is serious about. I agree with P Gade, LD is simply the best in the history. It will take a long time for another Lin Dan to emerge.
     
  20. nokh88

    nokh88 Regular Member

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    Many fans don't know the difference between CL, LCW and LD.
    CL and LD have to win to stay relevant.
    LCW no need to win to stay relevant and will still make money. Win or lose matches, it's a win win situation for him.:D
     

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