why Sudirman Cup?

2

2cents

Regular Member
Since China holds the 4 number 1 ranked players in 5 events. Even several number 2s. So there is no meaning to play Sudirman. It will be a gift to China without any doubt. China are used to winning 4 titles in most tournaments, Which means China can win easily against the rest of the world as a whole.

On the other aspect, every tournament is a Sudiman cup, just comparing each nation's performances and results. There is no need to have a special one to play Sudirman besides this is for sure won by China

Are there any other sports having the similar Sudirman cup? I didn't see any reason for the Sudirman cup besides it will bring some money to IBF (now WBF?) , while players get nothing, there is no prize money either.
 
Why Uber Cup? Why Australian Open tennis (men's singles)? Why golf? Why badminton women's doubles?

You can ignore it when the time comes, but I will be giving it my full attention. As long as the nations fighting for the Cup, for promotion or for better placings, are passionate, I'm all for it.
 
2cents said:
Since China holds the 4 number 1 ranked players in 5 events. Even several number 2s. So there is no meaning to play Sudirman. It will be a gift to China without any doubt. China are used to winning 4 titles in most tournaments, Which means China can win easily against the rest of the world as a whole.

On the other aspect, every tournament is a Sudiman cup, just comparing each nation's performances and results. There is no need to have a special one to play Sudirman besides this is for sure won by China

Are there any other sports having the similar Sudirman cup? I didn't see any reason for the Sudirman cup besides it will bring some money to IBF (now WBF?) , while players get nothing, there is no prize money either.
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It's like saying don't hold the football World Cup because Brazil dominates each time. Don't hold the cricket World Cup because Australia's beating the crap out of everyone. Don't hold any more women's squash events because Nicol David's winning every one she enters. Without competition how are challengers going to improve? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
2cents said:
Are there any other sports having the similar Sudirman cup? I didn't see any reason for the Sudirman cup besides it will bring some money to IBF (now WBF?) , while players get nothing, there is no prize money either.
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Tennis Hopman Cup which format quite similar w/ Sudirman Cup since 1989 although this Hopman rather lack of popularity compare than Davis and Fed Cup.

Yeah,on paper CHN is obviously powerful to defend SC next June but everything will happen such as in 2003 when CHN was also so dominance at that year, in the end SC back to KOR.

PBSI has targeted bring SC to the homeland of its creator because it's very humiliating for INA has only won once at inaugural moment in 1989. We'll see how hard for other countries to stop CHN then in Glasgow!
 
2cents said:
Are there any other sports having the similar Sudirman cup? I didn't see any reason for the Sudirman cup besides it will bring some money to IBF (now WBF?) , while players get nothing, there is no prize money either.
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So, to you, sports is all about money or a trophy? :eek:

If that's the case, there's should be no more soccer world cup, after Brazil won it 3 times in a row back in 1960s(?). There should be no basketball as Dream Team I won average 30+ points (as they did took it easy many times) in 1992 Olympics. And many more as others also listed.

If you lose a game, make sure train harder and fight harder and smarter next time. Simply giving up the hope is a no-no for sport, or for life. :o
 
exactly, CHN can't stay dominant forever ... well ... i certainly hope not.
though i do agree that it'll be difficult seeing anyone beating them this year, since their line-up is so formidable --->

LD (No. 1)
XXF (No. 1)
CY/FHF (No. 1)
GL/HS (No. 1)
XZB/ZYW (if you count average points per tournament, also No. 1!) :eek:
 
It's like when a country dominates, then skip the SC event that year!? That doesn't make sense. If China has been winning every SC since the 1st one, other countries already gave up and start sending 2nd or 3rd stringer, then there is no point continuing it.

I think Indonesia has a very good chance to give China some trouble. In the Asian games, the Indonesian WS and WD show a lot of potential when facing China in the group events but lost. They already have strong XD.


MS: CHN 50 - INA 50
MD: CHN 45 - INA 55
WS: CHN 55 - INA 45
WD: CHN 60 - INA 40
XD: CHN 55 - INA 45
 
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Qidong said:
MS: CHN 50 - INA 50
MD: CHN 45 - INA 55
WS: CHN 55 - INA 45
WD: CHN 60 - INA 40
XD: CHN 55 - INA 45
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I would say it's more like ....

MS: CHN 55 - INA 45
MD: CHN 50 - INA 50
WS: CHN 70 - INA 30
WD: CHN 65 - INA 35
XD: CHN 50 - INA 50
 
2cents said:
Since China holds the 4 number 1 ranked players in 5 events. Even several number 2s. So there is no meaning to play Sudirman. It will be a gift to China without any doubt. China are used to winning 4 titles in most tournaments, Which means China can win easily against the rest of the world as a whole.

On the other aspect, every tournament is a Sudiman cup, just comparing each nation's performances and results. There is no need to have a special one to play Sudirman besides this is for sure won by China

Are there any other sports having the similar Sudirman cup? I didn't see any reason for the Sudirman cup besides it will bring some money to IBF (now WBF?) , while players get nothing, there is no prize money either.
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Badminton just like other sports, have no sure winners. China may be strong in almost all events but that's no guarantee that they will win. The result of the recent Malaysian open is a good example when China got defeated in events they used to dominate.
 
fastdrop said:
Badminton just like other sports, have no sure winners. China may be strong in almost all events but that's no guarantee that they will win. The result of the recent Malaysian open is a good example when China got defeated in events they used to dominate.
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even so, they still managed to win the majority of the titles so far in the super series, and this isn't just against 1 country, this is against the rest of the world!

MO - 3/5 titles.
KO - 4/5 titles.

i would go so far as to say that i would find it mildly shocking if CHN don't manage to win at least 60% of the titles in any of the super series tournaments this year (with the caveat that they send most of their first team squad).
 
No body understands my point, except CLELY. :) Thanks CLELY. But unfortunately we have different ideas.

Even though Hopman Cup has never as popular as David cup and Fed cup, but it is still much more interesting one than Sudirman cup. First Hopman is not the competition between nations, it is between couples. I will support this format 100% in badminton, which must be very interesting. The format of Hopman Cup goes like this. Every single man and woman can form a team to compete 3 matches:
1) one women's singles match;
2) one men's singles match;
3) one mixed doubles match

then determine the winner. therefore, my points even got proved stronger by

1) Hopman Cup has never as popular as David cup and Fed cup
2) Hopman cup is so different between Sudirma cup.
2-1) Hopman cup is not competition between nations
2-2) Hopman cup team consists only 2 players
2-3) only 3 matches using 2 players

I will support using Hopman cup format to replace the Sudirman cup format which has been proved once again how boring it is.

Now, still, after so many replies here, still no body found any Sudirman-like in any other sports. Even though CLELY rediscovered a dying but interesting one.

My post was not about China which I used as an example. So I didn't either pro or against China. I just want to point out that Sudirman cup is a very weird format, especially in badminton, because China dominates alll the events. It might be more meaningful to have a China-Rest of the world cup, in which China will still win easily.

Exactly as "fastdrop" argued, even China choked in Malaysia open, it still claimed 3 titles out of 5.
 
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i would like to see the format like we have for leagues here in the uk, though how feasible this is is questionable. for those who are unfamiliar with the doubles league system here, it's basically 3 pairs of doubles, all playing each other (well, i don't mean you play against your own teammates, just against all the other pairs of the opposing team).

so say for instance MAS 1 will have to play INA 1, INA 2 and INA 3 and so on and so forth. so it's effectively a best of 9 match, all played on the same day/night. i know in some leagues they have different points awarded depending on whether you win 5-4, 6-3 or 7-2 and above. makes an interesting change, but logistics may be problematic .... of course, this system works for singles as well.
 
CHN is strong, but that does not mean they never lost, just look at 2003. With the 5 match format (1 per event), and 21 pt NSS, there's more "upset" can be created.

I will say, if there're more matches and 15 pt OSS, then, it's almost a "mission impossible" to crack the great wall. ;)
 
Dreamzz said:
i would like to see the format like we have for leagues here in the uk, though how feasible this is is questionable. for those who are unfamiliar with the doubles league system here, it's basically 3 pairs of doubles, all playing each other (well, i don't mean you play against your own teammates, just against all the other pairs of the opposing team).

so say for instance MAS 1 will have to play INA 1, INA 2 and INA 3 and so on and so forth. so it's effectively a best of 9 match, all played on the same day/night. i know in some leagues they have different points awarded depending on whether you win 5-4, 6-3 or 7-2 and above. makes an interesting change, but logistics may be problematic .... of course, this system works for singles as well.
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The tournament, according to your format, will take one entire day just to finish one group match. Not quite possible and surely will turn boring.
 
Sudirman Cup can't be compared with Hopman Cup. In tennis, people don't care double much because it's all serve and volley. All 4 players stand in front of the net trading volleys. And most single players just simply play double to practice their volley. But people do care about badminton double also. Look at how people support Dim Dong Moon, Tony Gunawan, KKK, .... Just removing the WD and MD won't make SC less "boring". In my opinion, I think the current format is just fine.
 
My personal opinion...

CLELY said:
We'll see how hard for other countries to stop CHN then in Glasgow!
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..i'm sure other countries will try very hard in competing with CHN and i understand anything can happen, but looking at it realistically, i doubt if the CHN squad "can be stop"(esp. now with the newly formed XD tandem of GaoLing & ZhengBo;); unless of course the CHN squad "self-destruct" or injuries befall on their team(gudforbid and the chance of that happening is a very slim one)..:p ;)
Btw, i, too, like the current format of the Sudirman Cup..with the XD "acting" as the tiebreaker..;):cool:
 
Is wrong to have the China factor in the argument. If you argue about the format, it is fine but once you have China factor it is something else.
You don't need to have other sport to have the same format, Sudirman cup is unique as it is and remember that is not only the Division one which is consist of the big countries but there is all the other 40-50 countries involve.
 
The thing I against most is not just the format, it is the team format based on nations. Especially because China stands there, it is way away a balanced fair competition.

I was not saying MD and WD inferior to XD, although I said before all doubles inferior to singles. Why Hopman cup has special meaning in badminton, because it is based on couples instead of nations. For example, China can have several couples, such as, Lin Dan-Xie Xingfang; Chen Hong-Gao Ling; or Zheng Bo(he used to be single player before)-Gao Ling; Bao CL-Zhang Ning; Chen Jin-Zhu Lin; ...; and Malaysia Lee CW-Wong MC; or even Wong CH-Wang Chen(from Hong Kong)..., people can form a team cross countries. Taufik with Gong RN(she likes Taufik a lot).

When a men paired with a women, the 3rd match has to be Mixed double. If you want to see men's double, it is also okay to have a gay version of the Hopman cup, which has two men's singles(or even just 1 men's single) and 1 men's double, and also lesbian version of Hopman cup, which a team consists only two women playing 1 women single (or 2) and 1 women double. For straight couples, there must be 1 men single, 1 women single and 1 mixed double. While for gay and lesbian couple, there could be just 1 single (the best of two) and 1 double which are enough. The winner could be the one winning the best sets or points instead of the 3rd match. For the gay couple, it is extremly interesting because it is really hard to predict who's going to win. Lin Dan-Fu Hai Feng? or Taufik-Kido? or LCW-KKK or Bao CL-Zheng Bo?

This way must be more interesting, we will know who are the best straight couple in badminton, and who are the best gay couple, and who are the best lesbian couple. Don't you guys believe that would be much more interesting than the national competition which China will win for sure.
 
I have a strong feeling that most people here are enthusiastic patriots who just want to see their nation wining then to be proud of instead of seeing who are really the best individuals in badminton. Sigh ...

One good example is "indra", who claimed himself the number 1 fan of Taufic, but many times, he wanted Simon Satoso win the title instead of Taufic, I was surprised and asked why, he said that's better for the future of Indonesia. Then I realized that indra supported Taufik not because Taufic himself, intead, indra supports Taufik because indra is an enthusiastic patriot, His support to Indonesia never changed, supporting Taufik is just because Taufik is an Indonesian.
 
2cents said:
I have a strong feeling that most people here are enthusiastic patriots who just want to see their nation wining then to be proud of instead of seeing who are really the best individuals in badminton. Sigh ...
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There is nothing wrong with that. If most people like it, Sudirman Cup needs to be continued with the current format. I think instead of changing Sudirman Cup's format, I think your suggestion should be "Should there be a new tournment like Hopman Cup for badminton?".
 
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