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The impact of bad linecalls on MSF players in KO 08 and CO 07

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by Birdwood, Jan 27, 2008.

  1. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    Hmm..

    ..i was referring to the disagreements/misunderstandings of what happened prior to LD throwing his racket; not so much to the bad/good line call. According to a few posts/reports/articles, some eyewitnesses mentioned LM said something which sparked LD to be upset hence throwing the racket. While LM seemed to charge towards LD.
    What was said, IMO, that has to be cleared up.
    Of course, "neutral" eyewitness(es) will possibly be required, as both parties could "revise" their own stories.
     
  2. V3i HoN6

    V3i HoN6 Regular Member

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    Again, I stress that those are not great calls.
    Those calls are correct as it suppose to be and it didn't favor the player that gain a point from it.
    Nothing great about making a call as it suppose to be.
    I'm sound like nit-picking here but my intention was just don't want anybody using it to justify the rest of the bad calls like last time in China Open.

    Like, "those bad calls were very less, compare to the good one".

    So you are not sure about this?
    Didn't stop you from making comments about the result is not very much affected though.
    But sure you are entitled to your own opinions.
    I just dont agree about it.
     
  3. Birdwood

    Birdwood Regular Member

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    I am afraid all those places ppl may not be interested in baddy. That's why they are "neutral" in a sense. Elsewhere, titles are hotly contested on and off courts by baddy nations and everything will be counted on to gain the upper hand.
     
  4. V3i HoN6

    V3i HoN6 Regular Member

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    As opposed to what Li Mao may said, cursing him or his family or any dirty words one can imagine, still didn't justify the physical actions.

    That's right, how much I admire Zidane and no matters what the Italian have said, I still couldn't agree to what he did.
     
  5. X Ball

    X Ball Regular Member

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    In the context of things, they are great calls because they put things right as opposed to the calls made in China. I did not say they were incorrect calls.

    He called them as he saw them whereas the Umpire in China Open just went with the line judges' calls - so they are great (but if you don't like the adjective, call it 'good').:)
     
  6. V3i HoN6

    V3i HoN6 Regular Member

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    I would suggest simply "correct call", good overrule perhaps.
    But hope everyone get the idea.
     
  7. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    Whatever it is..

    ..or actions or may have been said, if BWF deems it necessary to be resolved, then it has to be cleared up...Like many have said, it's unfortunate it happened, but at least they're working a way towards a resolution.:cool:
     
  8. indra

    indra Regular Member

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    My advice to WBF:

    In any semi final or final round of the SS the umpire, service judge and all linespersons MUST be from

    1. non-host countries
    2. non-playing player countries
     
  9. yen_saw

    yen_saw Regular Member

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    It is useless, the only way to resolve this is to implement instant replay, each player has 3 call to overrule just like in Tennis or American football. When all challenges exhasuted, the player has to obey the umpire's call that is it.
     
  10. indra

    indra Regular Member

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    yes. agree...

    It is really expensive to have the instant replay cameras...? how much? just wondering?
     
  11. Birdwood

    Birdwood Regular Member

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    Since huangkwokhau said he saw it, I have to believe it. I only have RTM1 version and don't understand Malay. But after reviewing it, the umpire did appear to be familiar and mentioned somewhere else in another SS video (or videos) as being Chinese.

    The results was affected by linesmen, not as much as by the umpire. I would wish Chn had used a foreign umpire. In that case, he/she might over-rule some bad calls. But again my comments were since the scores were further apart in CO 07, the outcome of the match might not have been different based on those bad calls. How much psychologically those calls affected LCW's performance I could not quantify them. I only based my opinion on the score and the number of bad calls.

    The purpose of this thread is for BCers to air their opinions. If you don't agree with my assessment, please state your case and I think most of us are open-minded about the whole affair whether in CO 07 or KO 08.
     
  12. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    Anyone..

    ..in BC, with extra $$$ hanging around, willing to sponsor such instant replays/hawkeye system?? Since the suggestion have come mostly from BCers...:confused: :rolleyes:;)
     
  13. vching

    vching Regular Member

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    no need hawkeye lah... just instant replay/3rd umpire like cricket.... even on TV you can see whether a shuttle is in or not.... just use existing equipment ...
     
  14. madbad

    madbad Regular Member

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    coming to a court near you...
    BWF still probably too poor to afford them... at least something similar to the hawkeye system. Remember, it's not just one, it's several to monitor all the lines, and for 4 courts (average per tournament)
     
  15. indra

    indra Regular Member

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    I guess BWF MUST establish a new division in charge of raising more funds/sponsors to modernize Badminton...Thre is no reason for BWF to say " it is hard, difficult, or the likes....BWF MUST be able to find and hire a group of smart people to lead the new division..."...BWF should adopt and embrace the YOU-CAN-IF-YOU-THINK-YOU-CAN principle.
     
  16. ssjtygrysek

    ssjtygrysek Regular Member

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    Some things to think about

    I agree that the line judges and upmires should all be from different countries then either one of the players. That would at least solve the bias problem though not all the time considering that each person no matter from what country always has a favorite player and if that player happens to be playing the game they are judging at we might have the same bias situation. As for the Hawkeye idea, its good but I don't think that BWF is going to do it anytime soon.

    As for the reaction of the LD's coaches I think that was uncalled for. If I was LD I think I would have reacted the same way or at least would have been really pissed off. I don't know what the outcome should have been, they are suppose to be professional players but when stuff like this happens at that point in the game and more then once in a match I think the players have the right to get pissed and sometimes you just can't control yourself and you lose it. You will have to pay the consequences but it doesn't really matter to you at that point. I do think that LD should have still acted respectfully with his opponent, which I believe he did after watching the video, it's not his fault that the line call was bad.

    But here is a question, if LHI saw the shot himself and if it really was out but how much LD was saying it was. Should he have give the next point away to LD on purpose as an act of good sportsmanship? I know the stakes are high and it might have risked the game for LHI but still would that have been a good thing to do? Just curious what other think about this. I could have sworn that LCW gave one of the points away back to TH in one of the recent finals that they met. I believe that TH played a great rally and had LCW in a lot of trouble and then LCW ended up hitting a shot which was clearly out (i think thats what the situation was) (both TH and LWC knew it) but the line judge called it in and then LCW gave the next rally away to TH on purpose.
     
  17. jump_smash

    jump_smash Regular Member

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    1. The BWF address this issue of line judges, by simply just using the international line judges as in Thomas and Uber Cups 2006 for all Super series matches. The use international referees and pay them accordingly.
    As i have said before if BWF is serious it will do the same with line judges.


    2. Lee Hun Il played an incredible match, and show he can beat anyone, as in his previous rounds of Korea Super series and Malaysia Super Series. But not just this he previous from in Sudirman Cup 2003(http://www.badmintonsalon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9322)

    3. Li Mao and Lin Dan should be dealt with by BWF for the manner of their actions during the final.

    4. Being a former line judge (at many tournaments such as Sydney Olympics 2000) I can attest to the concentration required and pressure of matches.

    5. Korean line judges, should not be singled out. Their have been dubious calls at other events. I personally shaw some at Thomas and Uber Cups 2002 in Guangzhou (noting since WBF used international line judge team as in Japan Thomas and Uber Cups 2006 - where I attend, there does seem to be any issues.

    6. Yes Taufik and others have had issues with their poor behaviour on court before, but that doesn't make Lin Dan's actions okay.
    I saw Lin Dan play Taufik in Japan Thomas and Uber Cups, and the was an interesting issue. The Japanese had a large video screen showing the match at on end of the stadium behind one end of the finals court. For the first game Taufik saw the screen and ignored it. then when they changed over Lin Dan saw it and complained straight away.
     
  18. skunklover

    skunklover Regular Member

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    i know I would have given it to him. If i knew that it was clearly out...I would lose then next on purpose...If it was maybe..then i would just play on as normal. Event though the game is close....if you know that you should have lost that point, you would give it to the other party, to be fair..
     
  19. alfa-2

    alfa-2 Regular Member

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    can you leave Malaysia out of it?? i dont remember any issues similar of KO or CO happening in MO.;) i recalled of a thread praising MO line judges for the unbiased line calls.
     
  20. Birdwood

    Birdwood Regular Member

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    Just LD's coaches? I thought it also involed LHI's coach LM :confused:

    If this is the case, I would raise my hand, and said the call was bad and the point should be given to my opponent instead of waiting to return a favor by purposely giving away the next point. A bad call is a bad call, which players are aware of, just don't have the guts to admit them when favoring themselves and the national pride is at stake.

    Imaging that LCW lost MO 08 MSF to LHI in a tight match, what would have happened to Msia linesmen, who appeared to bend backwards to call in favor of LHI because some of shuttlecocks landed to close to call. Fortunately, LCW won the match, which let the linesmen off the hook.
     

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