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The impact of bad linecalls on MSF players in KO 08 and CO 07

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by Birdwood, Jan 27, 2008.

  1. huangkwokhau

    huangkwokhau Regular Member

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    It will take many months to colllect the fund from our BC members.....:D:D and I need to see the budget how many LV I can spend on it....:D:D
     
  2. alfa-2

    alfa-2 Regular Member

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    Kudos to you if you dare to do that, but there will be more than one racquet flying towards you then........not SMACKDOWN, it's everyone SMACK U DOWN.............:D:D:D:D:D
     
  3. xsakurax

    xsakurax Regular Member

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    No matter what bad line calls can really affect the player attitude and emotion...i'm really glad that lcw handle it in a very good way in CO....this proved to everyone that lcw is not mentally weak....i hate some people who are saying that bad line calls cannot affect the player >.<
    Now we can see how lin dan reacted towards this kind of incident....something that we are not really expected..
    Anyway i think bwf should find a solution to overcome this problem...this things are getting serious and it will ruin the fun of badminton...it is not good for this sport..more controversy will happen in the future...T_T
     
    #83 xsakurax, Jan 28, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2008
  4. jasonmarc

    jasonmarc Regular Member

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    Too costly to go to Moon..! and the shuttlecocks wouldnt land in court because of low gravity...can not..lah..! BWF cant affort it ......i tot antartica is not belong any country right.........a pure neutral ground.....playing badminton infront of penguin...:D...:rolleyes:
     
  5. yen_saw

    yen_saw Regular Member

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    It is time for instant replay

    I am glad people here responded to my instant replay suggestion. Badminton is a huge sport, it is an Olympic event for god sake, to have it spoiled by some bad linesman's call is unjustifying, frustrating for both players and audiences, a disgrace to this sport, and the source of all unwanted scenes like what had just happened. For american football, the reason instant replay was not recommended is due to the fact that it hinder the flow of the game, but they finally realized that it is required to maintane a fair game, and have it re-installed. Now i think instant reply in badminton don't really stop the flow of the game but to implement a fair system protecting both players from bias/faulty judgement. How long could it take to replay the shot? BWF can take a step up and even replace the linesman on the scene who makes the same mistake twice, placed the particular unfit/bais linesman in the (black)list. Hawkeye system cost more money than just instant replay, but to be honest, it doesn't cost THAT much to include one, or even several on the courts. BWF can definately afford it with all the advertisement money (where is the money really gone to?) But for now i think instant replay with multiple cameras from different angles should work. Even for a game in NBA there is instant replay to determine if the last second ball made the basket as time expire, why can't badminton?:confused:
     
  6. Alphonse

    Alphonse Regular Member

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    Bad line calls you say? How about bias linespeople!

    I was there at the Jang Chung Gymnasium during the Men's Singles finals between Lin Dan and Lee Hyun-il. I actually saw a female linesperson, on the side of Lee Hyun-il, clap her hand during an important point to Lee's favor. After she realized that she made a mistake of clapping, she immediately looked around to check if anybody saw her.

    Seeing this, I don't think the Korean linespeople at the 2008 Korea Open were neutral.
     
  7. speedy

    speedy Regular Member

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    The BWF is actually quite problematic already! Look at the quarrel between punchy punch and ganga rao, both of which are from Malaysia, which required the interjection of the Malaysian Minister of Sports a few times:mad:
     
  8. jimbo

    jimbo Regular Member

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    I aint suprised at what you had witnessed. She is a human afterall, and loving and supporting his country is nothing to be ashamed of.

    Hiring non-locals as linemen would be expensive, so the organiser seek locals as volunteers (some of them are even students!!!). in another words, they did not go through any course or training to be a linesman. so we should expect the kinda of "favorable" calls yet humanely made ;) Havent we forgotten the FIFA WORLD CUP in Korea and Soul 88 Olympics (Boxing)??? Our Taufik walked off in KO??? It wasnt coincidental, it was patriotism overrules passion of the beautiful games :cool: Shame on you, the linesman.

    There's no quick fix to this controversy coz BWF has limited funds compare to FIFA or ATP. The hawkeye technology is available but expensive, unless BWF secures IBM sponsorship.

    Lastly, do NOT expect OG08 to be a "clean" and "neutral" coz LYB would tell you he is the boss in CHN!!! :cool:
     
  9. yen_saw

    yen_saw Regular Member

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    I agree it will not be "clean". Not on badminton, or any other events, which is why more precise technology/equipment is needed to help a "clean" call.
     
  10. jimbo

    jimbo Regular Member

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    Do you know that Badminton is the fastest (in terms of speed) game in sports? If i'm not mistaken, Fu/Chai hold the record for 300++kmh :eek: It is faster than tennis!!! At this lightning speed, you dont think the hawkeye is expensive? Think twice my dear fren :)
     
  11. Birdwood

    Birdwood Regular Member

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    What you said is correct. Players should all handle things more like LCW than LD. But, you also failed to pay close attention to the scores at the time. It happened at 21-21 in MSF KO 08. If the shuttlecocks had been called out, it would give LD the match point. Since he won the next point, LD would have won MS title in KO 08 by (23-21) instead of losing it (23-25 to LHI). Most of us can see from the video that the shuttle landed out, but was called in :eek::mad:

    Was LD "robbed" of the title :confused: How were you behave if you were been robbed of your possession? Maybe a range of responses from crying, screaming, kicking to fighting back. LD did go extreme at that moment, but understandable to me :crying:

    btw, we'll need to add a face symbol in the forum for fist fight if things don't get fixed soon :cool:
     
  12. hollywood_t

    hollywood_t Regular Member

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    Not sure about your other points, but there were numerous overules by the umpire/tournament referree throughout the Korean Open to correct bad calls (just look at the tournament daily summaries).

    I have to applaud IBF for doing a better job here and having some non partisan umpires and tournament ref. I was quite surprised that there were so many corrections. Usually the bad calls just stand.

    What is strange is that any/more of the ?? line judges weren't replaced. Is this not a perogative of the player to request such an action? You have to tough mentally to do this though. If so, more excercising of this right would help correct bad calls significantly. Or the tournament ref should do it immediately in any high stakes matches.

    Second, I'm not sure LHI really has the credibility to say that it's just like that in the China Open. Sure the calls were bad there, but Korean major sporting events have had a much longer reputation of controversy starting w/ the 1988 Seoul games, 2002 world cup, etc ..... Much more convincing from say Kenneth Jonassen ....

    I do have to say it is disappointing that China has joined the bad line calls club. Time was when they didn't resort to these types of tactics. This could be a change of the culture and not for the better.

    Hopefully something structurally and rules wise can be done to miminimize this sort of thing. Really a bummer to enjoying the game.





     
  13. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    Of course it is an invalid asumption tha LD "must" have won the next point just because he did under "current circumstanses".. For example, he would have the dissadvantage of serve in that hypothetical scenario. and the break would not have afected both players.. He may also have been less (or more) nervous serving for the match etc..

    just 2 cents..

    -Twobeer
     
  14. hollywood_t

    hollywood_t Regular Member

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    Actually now that I think about it, it should be the tournament/referre/IBF that takes full responsibility for changing the linespeople. It is unfair to ask the players to be responsible for ensuring a professional, fair environment for competition. That is the organzer's responsibility.

    It's also too easy for the remaining lines judges to become biased against a player for asking one of them to be removed.



     
  15. yen_saw

    yen_saw Regular Member

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    We are not talking about speed here, the issue is judging whether it is a good call or not, and yes i know badminton very well, been playing this game for 20 years and at a competitive level. Hawkeye system can capture speed of any kind, it is not cheap but not astronomical figure and i merely want to point out that with all the money pouring in to this sport it is affordable, however, if you look back to my thread i have been suggesting an instant replay anyway, not hawkeye system that someone else recommended.
     
  16. Birdwood

    Birdwood Regular Member

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    I saw your line of thought a couple of times. This more sounds like what we teach kids or were taught growing up: what was the potential consequences for certain behaviors. But in justice system, the punishment has to fit the "crime". We can't go around to extrapolate what will happen if LD's racket was to hit someone just because LD threw his racket in MSF KO 08.

    Why he went into rage to protest? Because (1) linesmen wrongly called LHI's shot in, instead out (2) umpire would not listen to his plea (3) ML did something with his words, movements, expression, etc. What's this "the form of protest must also be right", do you think LD should wait patiently in Beijing for BWF to take back the title from LHI and hand over to him :confused: What's the chance there? None.

    No way I condone LD's behavior. But in that situation, he did what he thought was the right form of protest, unless you have any better suggestions for him to resolve being robbed a point and possibly the MS title on the spot :rolleyes:
     
  17. sepang

    sepang Regular Member

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    I could not clearly see the shuttle was out from the provided video. I would not comment it. There is no doubt that LD is outstanding badminton player, no matter you say he just smashes and taps.....whatever it takes to win a game is a great player. On another hand, I have no respect of him because he said no home court advantage when lost his game in CO07 and threw racket outside of court is totally unacceptable. I wish WBF really takes serious action against the incident. I certainly won't mind losing a great player than has such poor spirit player on the court.

    The earth moves on with or without you.
     
  18. Birdwood

    Birdwood Regular Member

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    With all my respect, I would like to agree with you that the assumption might not be either a sure thing or a correct one. We all play baddy one way or the other and we know anything can happen if we waited another 5'' before serving, serve a little differently, play the shuttlecocks at a slight different angle, etc. But, I was discussing it as an after-fact that LD did win the next point so he should have won the MS title in KO 08 if he had gained a point at 21-21. Nothing can beat that argument by simply looking at the sequence of the scores.

    If anything changes, other things may or may not change and we will never find out. We can go into possibility and probability calculations, but with that we will not be able to discuss anything. One might ask what if there had been an earthquake in KO 08, then wouldn't we all be saved from those discussions, would we?
     
  19. bic33

    bic33 Regular Member

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    i personally believe LM said something to make LD angry... i watched the match live... let's say, LD threw his racket in LM and the umpire's direction... but after a few seconds, LD was very enranged... angry to the point that he wants to smack LM with his racket... now now, what could have possibly triggered that...
     
  20. Simp84

    Simp84 Regular Member

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    Cmon.. everyone is different.. some are more aggressive and some are cool & calm.. Some people just cant take criticism or verbal insult, & they resort to violence (not being sarcastic here)
    LD always had a strong personality even b4 he was world #1, he has no fear or respect for any of his opponent, whatever he did on that day was considered inappropriate, but then it had already happened so what can we do..
    I suggest everyone, lets just move on and anticipate for more exciting events ahead, leave this behind and forget about it, no point speculating what they said to each other, because no one have heard the entire conversation other than LD and LM
     

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