Been playing around with an undercut serve to wobble the shuttle. Notice how it angles downward just before it's supposed to cross the net. However, it's not easy to be consistent yet with this action, perhaps with more practice. Having thin rough strings at high tension, eg. ZM62 @ 23x24 lbs, certainly helps to increase the wobble effect. My usual serve action is the simple tap/supination action. For reference, I'm standing 6.5 ft away from the drape, and the net height is the thin line in the middle of the window. Video is played at 1/8th speed. [video=youtube_share;q-HxHQALYJs]http://youtu.be/q-HxHQALYJs[/video]
No tips im afraid - hours of practice, including tears and frustration. No slice at all, just a push action. It feels I can serve without error at will. I do not slice the wide serve low - I rarely do the wide low serve, and instead vary my serve within T and halfway along the service box - thats enough for me to find someone's weak point on return. If I do serve wide, I simply set my self up to serve as normal and then turn and serve wide - whilst the service ACTION is not deceptive at all, thats not the point of the serve variation. I want them anticipating my regular short serve, and the wide serve is just to get them thinking and unsure of where I will choose to serve - I don't care whether my service action is deceptive for the wide server, I want my opponent to be unsure of where I will choose to serve it. In order to get the flick serve, i give the shuttle a "shunt" with the racket, almost like jabbing at the shuttle. Its very difficult to describe, but to "demonstrate" the shot (which is slightly different to doing it, but you get the idea), you hold the backhand grip with the racket almost horizontal and strings pointing towards your target. You then quickly move your hand forwards and squeeze the grip. It will look as though the racket had not moved at all in the hand - as if the hand has moved a couple of inches forwards, but with the racket strings not having changed direction (accuracy is hence very easy). There is no backswing, and the forward swing is only a couple of inches. My flick serve seems to be very deceptive, and whilst the best players I play are only county standard, they all seem to have extraordinary difficult in attacking my flick serve (tip: aim for the forehand rear corner - most players movement at that level is very slow to that corner). Not sure I can explain any better than that. Matt
Thanks Matt, that's interesting. The thing I find tricky about this style of serve is that you start with the strings pointing down (a bit). Then for a flick serve, the strings will need to point upwards a similar amount on impact. So you're looking at about a 90 degree change of angle, which feels like a lot when I try the serve. Clearly it can be done; I just find the transition from "strings pointing downwards" to "strings pointing upwards" awkward -- compared to "strings pointing flat" to "strings pointing upwards". Good video. You can really see the effect on the shuttle flight.
Matt, you talk about starting with the racket head downwards, and then using a simple push action with no slice at all (and I assume no attempt at "brushing" the shuttle or anything at all "slicey"). This does seem to match what Lars Paaske does. His hitting action looks very short and simple. But how does the downwards-angled racket head help? That's what I find hard to understand. Obviously it works very well for Lars (and you, and others). I'm curious about why it works. What do you think? Maybe it just compensates for the tendency to angle the strings up too much after the backswing? Is it just a way to "prompt" the player to hit flatter? Or is there something more subtle going on?
In all honesty, I believe it is exactly what you said - it helps me to ensure that I am hitting the shuttle flat, rather than slightly upwards. It is no more than that - when I start with the strings straight, and use the same action (which should be the same!), I had a tendency to hit the shuttle slightly higher. By starting with the strings angled downwards, I think my strings are more likely to be flat, or slightly downwards as I strike forwards. I think, in particular, pushing slightly upwards, whilst angling the strings perhaps slightly downwards seems to give me a nice and consistent flat serve that does not rise after the net. Im afraid I can't give a helpful explanation - it feels right, is very consistent, and works well for me.
Would be interesting and useful to analyze your own serves in slow mo like I did. Then you'll understand and see the subtle things. Like making sure to hit the shuttle "out of your hand" before it has a chance to fall. And in your case which way your racket is facing on strike.
is this the goal? to hit it out of the hand? i see some struggling players letting it fall a bit, but i dont say anything unless i am 100% of what im talking about but i wanna help them especially when theyre my teammates how to hold it best? i hold the shuttle by my thumb and my indexfinger and spread the other fingers away when i taught a beginner who is very engaged and wants to improve that she should hold it so, she refused and kept holding it with all her fingers IN the shuttle... is that important or a detail i should not further address?
Yes, hitting it out of the hand without falling much further is the single most critical factor for consistency. Which brings us to why you see the pros use the top edge corner strings to make contact, ie 1-2 o'clock position. Because it's closest to the hand so the shuttle can be struck immediately after letting go, instead of waiting for it to drop further to hit with the sweetspot as some players would argue is better. Holding the shuttle, all pros hold the same way which is the best. But I find my hand too small, so I hold by the cork with first 3 fingers.
Other than how to hold the shuttle, the size of the hand doesn't affect getting in the way. The fingers should just simply release the shuttle, without moving the hand at all. And the shuttle should be struck almost immediately before it has a chance to fall much eg 1 inch.
Good idea, how did you slow down the video? Was it taken on a smart phone or camera? I'm thinking it may be a good idea to see your own serve from the receiver's viewpoint, that way you can see whether it is effective.
Yes, on my Samsung S5, there's a feature where it can record at 8x speed, then on playback becomes 1/8th speed. If you upload to YouTube, you can also choose to playback at 1/4 speed.
Gollum, as I understand it, the point of this thread is to talk about ways to improve your serve to prevent it being attacked easily. Given it's an old thread and that you have tried varying your technique quite a bit, I would be very interested to hear your view on how you would serve against the fastest rushers to stop them from attacking your serve? I have always had trouble with some exceptionally fast receivers who toe the line and have such a long reach they can take the shuttle well within a foot of the tape. The topspin serve does help a little as it makes the shuttle "sit" quicker but there are a few rushers at my clubs that are just too quick.
First, remember that different serving styles may suit different players. If you find technique X gives you a fantastic low serve, then just keep using it -- even if it doesn't work for me. Remember also that changing your service style can be difficult, and requires an investment of time. Remember that the quality of your other serves -- especially your flick -- affects how much you can neutralise the rusher. It's not only about your low serve technique. Now to the problem in hand: you are facing a very aggressive rusher. What can you do? There are many answers. Mostly these are basic tactical ideas and have little to do with your technique: Keep your nerve. An aggressive receiving position can easily pressure the server, causing his serves to get worse. Keep calm, decide for sure which serve you are going to play, concentrate, and then serve. Try a semi-wide low serve. Aim for around the receiver's front foot. This makes it harder for the receiver to choose his shot. In particular it is difficult for him to choose between a forehand and a backhand. This tactic can sometimes completely neutralise a dominant receiver. Try a flick serve. You want to discover early on how well your opponent can cope with this. It is also useful to establish some uncertainty in your opponent, which makes him slower to rush the low serve. Try serving short deliberately. This sounds crazy, but often a rusher will fail to realise your serve is short. This is a bit of a last resort, but sometimes it works really well. You can mix it up with "proper" serves to keep him unsure. You are never going to stop really (really!) good receivers from taking your low serve early. You can use the tactics above to help things, but they are still going to take your serve early. With that said, "advanced" low serve techniques may help you get the serve a bit tighter. But you must get consistency, and this is difficult. I am not a great server, but here's what I've found: Passing extremely close to the top of the net is not the most important thing. It is better to get the shuttle tight to the service line and dropping just after it passes the net, even if you have to add an inch or two to the height for consistency. As long as the serve is working, you can reduce that extra height over time. You need to get the serve working consistently enough so that you can use it in games, because that will give you lots of practice. We want a situation where the shuttle is slightly below net height, and angled slightly downwards. This makes drives and pushes difficult for the receiver, because they will go upwards a bit. With that in mind, video your serve from the side and check this. Does the shuttle land on (or near) the front line? Does it start to dip soon after crossing the net? These things are not always obvious from your perspective as the server, which is why video helps. You might be surprised by what you see. Bear in mind that you don't have to stand right at the front. Especially if you're short, try taking a small step back from the service line. This can help you get a flatter serve. Try this if you find your serves can go tight to the service line, or tight over the net, but not both at the same time. That extra step back may be all you need. If you are trying to decide what serving style to use, here are some questions to ask yourself: Does it give me the desired flight path (as above)? Can I get it consistent enough? Is there an alternative "advanced" option that I find easier? If I use this style, does it make my other serves harder? They need to look similar in preparation. The most important thing is consistency. For this reason I would avoid the really fancy serves, such as the ones that make the shuttle spin and tumble. One in a hundred will be amazing, but the rest will fall short or go in the net. My personal experience so far has been that a slight (slight!) undercutting serve is my best option for an "advanced" style. I like the way Cai Yun serves, because it is very simple. I would teach a similar technique to a complete beginner, just without the undercutting. Eventually, if desired, the player could "tweak" the technique slightly to introduce some undercutting. This is what I'm trying at the moment for my own serves. Compare this to a very fancy serve, such as Lee Yong Dae's. It's a fantastic serve, but I wouldn't recommend it because it's so difficult. It's either perfect or broken -- nothing in between. In his case it's perfect; in my case, broken. You cannot develop this serve from a basic foundation. But like I said, it really depends on the player. Experiment with different options, check the results on video, and choose something that works for you. ...and remember the basic tactics too!
Lol... I wouldn't call LYD's serve fancy... fantastic maybe, but not fancy. But all those points above are very good as usual by Gollum. Which points to how crucial a good consistent serve is in high level doubles. As others have mentioned before, this is the only shot that you have complete control. I'd say if there's one shot we all need to practice on, this is the one that is least practiced and the one that needs it the most. This is also the easiest shot to practice as you don't really need a partner nor a net and court... you just need to measure some heights and distances at home and away you go. Spend the time on it... If you do it right, it'll give you amazingly *poor* returns.
Great post Gollum. Just wanted to add some other points: The semi wide low serve should be your greatest weapon against a rusher. By definition, a rusher takes off quickly before they get a chance to judge the flight of the shuttle perfectly. If you vary your serve so that it is aimed at varying points around the servers racket shoulder, as Gollum suggests, you can get vastly different returns. Varying one inch at a time from left to right will produce a whole spectrum of returns, it may be they find forehand returns easy, and wide backhands easy, but they get confused when it comes to close backhands. This will also vary depending on which side they are receiving from. I have effectively nullified people who could attack my regular low serve by serving a few inches further to the left or to the right. I am now confident that in most cases I can force my opponent to lift my serve, within about 5 serves versus that opponent (to learn what they are capable of). Also, for those who haven't tried it: Do not be afraid of the drive serve. An upwards drive serve (clearly travelling upwards, like a very shallow flick) down the centre line can really screw up a lot of returners! Its easy to play the "drive" serve without faulting - do not aim flat, just aim slightly upwards as if you were playing a very shallow flick serve. I think the point you made about good receivers taking it early is an important one - a good receiver will take the shuttle early, and as long as they cannot hit the shuttle too steeply downwards, then the serve has done its job! In all honesty, a good receiver is one that has a large variety of shots they can play when they take it early - its not the shots that are difficult to retrieve, its that you need to cover so much of the court. Serving to different places (left or right of receivers racket shoulder) can greatly reduce their options. Based on what I have just said, I personally think its most important to get the shuttle flat over the net (tight to the net), rather than landing on the service line. It is not possible to kill a shuttle that is 1cm above net height, from a foot away from the net. As I said - I am happy if they play a drive or a push - it shows the serve was too tight to attack/hit downwards. Finally, in my opinion, a good receiver will not care if their drives or pushes have to go up a bit. The best players in the world will not care if their shots go slightly upwards (either a push that has to rise slightly to pass the net or a drive that rises shallowly after passing the net) - the purpose of their shots remains the same: 1. pushes need to stay low and be hit away from the front court player, because its a push, it doesn't have much pace, or much height, meaning the back court player is unlikely to take it very high, even if I had to hit it slightly upwards. I will not worry about hitting slightly upwards BECAUSE I am taking the shuttle very early, and the front court player will not have time to react (given they have no idea what shot I will play). 2. drives should travel quickly to the mid/rear court, and if possible make it very awkward for the back court player to play a downwards attacking shot (given how far away from the net it is, this will certainly be the case). I really like the point Gollum made about getting the serve consistent first, and then improving it - this is exactly the right advice. LYD will have developed his serve over the last 15 years - its not something that he would perfect straight away... so imagine if you gave yourself 10 years to perfect your serve, do you think you would achieve it? Thats exactly what every professional has done! Best to remember that for those players looking for quick changes and quick results. Sorry for the wall of text!
I haven't studied it at length, but from a quick look: He "angles" the preparation out wide, and then "bends" the serve in as he hits it, so that the end result is a serve that goes straight or semi-wide. This action includes a fair amount of side spin, which causes the shuttle to "wobble". Now I can't speak for you, but I find that serve difficult to pull off. The same could be said for Gao Ling, who points out to the side but with a vertical racket. Fantastic serve, but unusual and -- for me at least -- very difficult to learn.
I can go back-and-forth about this. In general I think you're right. In this context, however, I am thinking of players trying to change a "basic" serve to an "advanced" one -- say, by adding some undercutting. In this situation, I think you have to allow more height. Here's why: The purpose of the "advanced" serve is to get the shuttle landing on/near the service line, where before it was landing deeper (and therefore coming upwards after passing the net). They are never going to succeed in making that change unless they can start using the new style in their games. But the problem with "advanced" serves is consistency. In order to practise the "advanced" serve, you need it to be landing near the service line; this is the nature and purpose of such a serve. But to get some consistency, you need to find margins elsewhere. Something has to give. The only thing left is how tight you aim over the net. For that reason, I suggest players give themselves a bit of margin with their serve height. Not too much, or it gets killed! Bear in mind this only applies for a player who is trying to make the transition from a "basic" style to an "advanced" style. And I keep putting "advanced" in shudder quotes because this style isn't necessarily better or sensible, and it would be perfectly reasonable (perhaps even wise) for players to ignore it and keep the serve simple and consistent.
