Victor VE-50

[viver]

Stringer choice, but it can only be done with a flying clamp/s because one fixed clamp can't reach both sides of the racket.

Absolutely does not matter, as long as they are tied as close to the last cross as possible.
(Purely aesthetically, I loathed seeing crosses tied at shared holes, but that's me.)

The only hard rules are, IMO
1. Mains from the middle out, and keep the L/R as balanced as possible.
2. Tie knots as close to their anchor strings as possible.
3. Crosses bottom up (this is known to be safer).

This might be a dumb question, I have been looking for an explanation but unsuccessfully...
In the past, when using the wooden and aluminum rackets, the practice to stringing the crosses in badminton rackets was Top Down. Stringing the crosses starting from the bottom would change the racket head form and was an absolute NO NO. What is the reason now to do the crosses starting from the bottom?

My stringing machine is an old 30 years from Fleet (now Felet I think) and I string only mine and my wife's rackets, and occasionally for a friend - I do the crosses bottom to top now, as seen in the instructional videos in Youtube. But I still like to do a good job on the rackets even though is just for my own rackets!

Thank you, and apologies if this is a dumb question.

 

[slim416]

This might be a dumb question, I have been looking for an explanation but unsuccessfully...
In the past, when using the wooden and aluminum rackets, the practice to stringing the crosses in badminton rackets was Top Down. Stringing the crosses starting from the bottom would change the racket head form and was an absolute NO NO. What is the reason now to do the crosses starting from the bottom?

My stringing machine is an old 30 years from Fleet (now Felet I think) and I string only mine and my wife's rackets, and occasionally for a friend - I do the crosses bottom to top now, as seen in the instructional videos in Youtube. But I still like to do a good job on the rackets even though is just for my own rackets!

Thank you, and apologies if this is a dumb question.

Yonex changed their suggested stringing patterns from top down to bottom up around 15 or so years ago around the same time the first nanospeed rackets were introduced as racket frames were getting thinner and thinner. Frames are usually thicker on the bottom so the bottom-up method would put less stress on the frame.

 

[kakinami]

This might be a dumb question, I have been looking for an explanation but unsuccessfully...
In the past, when using the wooden and aluminum rackets, the practice to stringing the crosses in badminton rackets was Top Down. Stringing the crosses starting from the bottom would change the racket head form and was an absolute NO NO. What is the reason now to do the crosses starting from the bottom?

My stringing machine is an old 30 years from Fleet (now Felet I think) and I string only mine and my wife's rackets, and occasionally for a friend - I do the crosses bottom to top now, as seen in the instructional videos in Youtube. But I still like to do a good job on the rackets even though is just for my own rackets!

Thank you, and apologies if this is a dumb question.

At the 2005 Badminton World Championships in Anaheim A stringer was doing a racket at 34 pounds for a Korean player, he was stringing top down and broke 3 rackets in a row, I believe he was on machine #4. The 4th racket he went bottom up and had no problem. I believe due to the higher tension players are using now a days, it is recommended to go bottom up. With the higher tensions the bottom of the frame becomes weaker with the higher tensions, that is where they were breaking when the stringer was going top down at the 4 or 7 oclock position.

So maybe my guess to your question is because of the higher tensions players are using now, which makes the bottom of the frame weaker with the higher tensions.

 

[viver]

At the 2005 Badminton World Championships in Anaheim A stringer was doing a racket at 34 pounds for a Korean player, he was stringing top down and broke 3 rackets in a row, I believe he was on machine #4. The 4th racket he went bottom up and had no problem. I believe due to the higher tension players are using now a days, it is recommended to go bottom up. With the higher tensions the bottom of the frame becomes weaker with the higher tensions, that is where they were breaking when the stringer was going top down at the 4 or 7 oclock position.

So maybe my guess to your question is because of the higher tensions players are using now, which makes the bottom of the frame weaker with the higher tensions.

Thank you very much for your reply.

I have been trying to find on the internet the answer to my question for sometime... I did run into a tennis rackets stringing forum, maybe about 4/5 years ago where the stringers there favored the crosses from top to bottom - my understanding for their reasoning was that the tension/stress builds to the direction of the stringing. The 4/5 and 7/8 o'clock being the stronger of the racket frame, stringing the crosses from top to bottom, the tension would be higher at the bottom, that was why it recommended (also according to different rackets manufacturers) the doing the crosses from top to bottom.

I would also like to say a thank you here for showing the Gudgeon knot. I have been practicing it in my stringing job, it's not perfect but I think I am getting better at it.

 

[NorthGuy]

I keep getting mixed results when looking into tension distribution.

If I want to string a racket at 25 lbs. Some say you just string it all at 25 and it evens out as you hit. Others say you string mains at 25 and crosses at 27 due to weaving displacement.

Is there any true proven method that gives you the true lbs you are looking for?

 

[Mark A]

At the 2005 Badminton World Championships in Anaheim A stringer was doing a racket at 34 pounds for a Korean player, he was stringing top down and broke 3 rackets in a row, I believe he was on machine #4. The 4th racket he went bottom up and had no problem. I believe due to the higher tension players are using now a days, it is recommended to go bottom up. With the higher tensions the bottom of the frame becomes weaker with the higher tensions, that is where they were breaking when the stringer was going top down at the 4 or 7 oclock position.

As I understand it, it was basically Yonex saying

"we were breaking rackets with top-down, and it stopped when we went bottom-up, so that's how we do it now"

You can do all the maths you want, but you can't beat experience.

 

[kakinami]

I keep getting mixed results when looking into tension distribution.

If I want to string a racket at 25 lbs. Some say you just string it all at 25 and it evens out as you hit. Others say you string mains at 25 and crosses at 27 due to weaving displacement.

Is there any true proven method that gives you the true lbs you are looking for?

I recommend you do what feels best to you. You are probably the best judge of your string jobs. You see yourself everyday. You help yourself eat and drink, pee and poo. You brush your teeth, you comb your hair, sometimes you might do a rocket air (for any Animal Chin fans). I recommend you string how you feel your rackets feel the best, if you like your straight up tension, then do it straight up. If you feel you like the 10% method then do that. If you like the Yonex 2 piece or Haribito, or even if you like the AK modified Yonex pattern with the Yonex modified loop tying on a cross method. You shouldn't listen to other stringers tell you what they think is best. Play with your tensions and see what feels best to you. That is what I recommend you do for finding what tensions are best for you and your customers.

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[NorthGuy]

So I have done about 12 rackets so far in the last 3 weeks. A few a pre-weaved, a few I didn't.

I had a few questions.

1. I am sort of cofused by the difference of a "starting knot" and a "finishing knot". Like a knot is a knot in my mind. they all held no matter which one I chose. So I don't know the real difference and if there is an "optimal/easy" knot for each, as someone who is new to all this.

2. I have always strung at 27x27. I thought I would experiment and do 27x29 to see the feel difference. But if I go 27x29, what end tension am I actually achieving? If I tighten the crosses for the main displacement, I would assume I am then achieving a final tension of either 29lbs or 28(splitting the difference?)

3. I strung 2 Adidas Uberschall F5's. Thank goodness it came with a small booklet for stringing each model. Is this a string pattern I should get more used to and familiar with? there is no pre-weaving that or 1 piecing it, thats for sure.

4. what is a good "lube" to use on my machine for the fixed clamps? I mean its brand new and pretty smooth but I am finding the vertical portion of the fixed clamp could need to more for smoother up and downs, especially releasing and going down.

So far with my busy life and having 5 kids at home it's definitely nice to utilize the pre-weave so that I can be walking around or monitoring the home. But I much more enjoy doing it all on the machine. I have been doing a bit of both. I have been using mostly LN #5, #7 and BG 65 for my club players. So its not like im straight pulling aerosonic or bg80 straight across on the machine when preweaving. It's more slippery strings.

 

[DarthHowie]

1. Starting knots tend to be bulkier so that the knot doesn't sink into the grommet in the event you pull tension (the knot is the only anchor point vs it being clamped and have a knot [usually fininishing] tied afterwards.

2. As long as the racket head shape remains the same is all that matters. Each stringer has their own interpretation with tension (i always communicate that with all my clients). We can all agree 27x27.. is 27. Now when a stringer strings a racket at 27x 29 there are 3 most likely interpretations:

• 27 lbs (the main tension)
• 29 lbs (the cross tension)
• 28 lbs (the overall average) - This is the interpretation I use.

As a stringer we just do what the client asks us, but can offer feedback like, if i do 27 x 27 on my machine, my racket head will be more compressed inwards on the mains and look odd vs 27x 29. We adjust based on the equipment we have.

3. Uncommon pattern and uncommon racket for me to string too. I have the booklet as well and need it refer to it whenever my friend drops his F5 off. The Babolat racket pattern is also uncommon as the main tie offs are at the top vs the bottom.

4. I use no lubes. Just thorough cleaning (rubbing alcohol) by wiping of the fixed clamp posts and use a straw brush (and cloth after) to clean the inside of base clamp posts.

Wow 5 kids!! I have a hard enough time with 1 (3.5 yrs old)!! He does like watching me string and helps me pre-weave. I'm hoping he takes a liking to stringing...need an excuse to buy a 2nd machine =)

 

[Kaelhdris]

About 3. there are also some 88 holes Forza madness with 24 mains. You definitely want to go 4 knots on those rackets with 20 or 24 mains, as this is simpler and/or safer for the racket than the alternatives.

 

[Rittersport]

1. I am sort of cofused by the difference of a "starting knot" and a "finishing knot". Like a knot is a knot in my mind. they all held no matter which one I chose. So I don't know the real difference and if there is an "optimal/easy" knot for each, as someone who is new to all this.

About that, @kakinami did a trick to start with a finishing knot in one of his thread but it would required a starting clamp if I am not mistaken.

 

[kakinami]

So I have done about 12 rackets so far in the last 3 weeks. A few a pre-weaved, a few I didn't.

I had a few questions.

1. I am sort of cofused by the difference of a "starting knot" and a "finishing knot". Like a knot is a knot in my mind. they all held no matter which one I chose. So I don't know the real difference and if there is an "optimal/easy" knot for each, as someone who is new to all this.

2. I have always strung at 27x27. I thought I would experiment and do 27x29 to see the feel difference. But if I go 27x29, what end tension am I actually achieving? If I tighten the crosses for the main displacement, I would assume I am then achieving a final tension of either 29lbs or 28(splitting the difference?)

3. I strung 2 Adidas Uberschall F5's. Thank goodness it came with a small booklet for stringing each model. Is this a string pattern I should get more used to and familiar with? there is no pre-weaving that or 1 piecing it, thats for sure.

4. what is a good "lube" to use on my machine for the fixed clamps? I mean its brand new and pretty smooth but I am finding the vertical portion of the fixed clamp could need to more for smoother up and downs, especially releasing and going down.

So far with my busy life and having 5 kids at home it's definitely nice to utilize the pre-weave so that I can be walking around or monitoring the home. But I much more enjoy doing it all on the machine. I have been doing a bit of both. I have been using mostly LN #5, #7 and BG 65 for my club players. So its not like im straight pulling aerosonic or bg80 straight across on the machine when preweaving. It's more slippery strings.

For starting knot and finishing knot it is just what it sounds like. When you start your crosses if you tie a knot and then pull tension you pull tension on your main with your tension head. When you finish your crosses you only pull tension on your knot with your hand leverage not adding extra from your tension head.

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[slim416]

I noticed more and more stringers these days are skipping the starting knot altogether and just using a starting clamp to hold the string in place temporarily before going back to and just tying it off as a standard knot.

I am still experimenting with various types of starting knots but I found the original starting knots (https://www.perfect-tennis.com/best-tie-off-knots/#Starting_Knot) that I used many years ago don't work very well anymore with modern (thin) strings and rackets with wider tie off grommets.

@kakinami when you are stringing for Yonex were they still using starting knots and if so, was there an official starting knot you had to use?

 

[NorthGuy]

For starting knot and finishing knot it is just what it sounds like. When you start your crosses if you tie a knot and then pull tension you pull tension on your main with your tension head. When you finish your crosses you only pull tension on your knot with your hand leverage not adding extra from your tension head.

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I understand positionally what it means.

I more mean the actual physical differences? Like how are the knots themselves different and why are the different?

I have used the same knot to start and stop on many of my rackets on this new adventure. They all held. So I am not not sure why a starting knot style would differ from a finishing knot.

 

[kakinami]

I noticed more and more stringers these days are skipping the starting knot altogether and just using a starting clamp to hold the string in place temporarily before going back to and just tying it off as a standard knot.

I am still experimenting with various types of starting knots but I found the original starting knots (https://www.perfect-tennis.com/best-tie-off-knots/#Starting_Knot) that I used many years ago don't work very well anymore with modern (thin) strings and rackets with wider tie off grommets.

@kakinami when you are stringing for Yonex were they still using starting knots and if so, was there an official starting knot you had to use?

When I was stringing I always used a starting knot, never used a starting clamp to start or a floating clamp. While in tennis I always used a starting clamp to start my crosses, finish my crosses then tie my knots. While stringing professionally for tennis we were using Babolat Star 3's so adjusting the tension was using a dial, so if you switched up doing some crosses and then tying your actual tension might be off by .1 or something so we would just finish crosses and then add tension to last crosses for knots. I didn't want to use a starting clamp for badminton because I felt it was heavier for a badminton frame so I never tried it until about last year. Things I do now I feel I could have done and make my string jobs even more technical than before. Badminton stringing to me was there is only 1 way it should be, there are many rules with the rackets, you can only tie off in certain places because of grommets, but in tennis you can bend some rules and the racket manufacturers design rackets to be strung more technical.

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[kakinami]

I noticed more and more stringers these days are skipping the starting knot altogether and just using a starting clamp to hold the string in place temporarily before going back to and just tying it off as a standard knot.

I am still experimenting with various types of starting knots but I found the original starting knots (https://www.perfect-tennis.com/best-tie-off-knots/#Starting_Knot) that I used many years ago don't work very well anymore with modern (thin) strings and rackets with wider tie off grommets.

@kakinami when you are stringing for Yonex were they still using starting knots and if so, was there an official starting knot you had to use?

All my knots from 2009 were Gudgeon knots starting and finishing. Aerosonic I might add an extra half hitch to bulk it up if I saw it slip otherwise yea aĺl Gudegon knots

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[DarthHowie]

Still have the "Rice Rocket"/"Franken-Machine" (for now), but I've upgraded to the VE-50 Pro. It was an offer I couldn't refuse.

 

[s_mair]

Still have the "Rice Rocket"/"Franken-Machine" (for now), but I've upgraded to the VE-50 Pro. It was an offer I couldn't refuse.

View attachment 203197

Holy smokes, that is one massive upgrade. Congrats on that amazing new machine!

Although I really have to admit that your old machine has so much character, it surely has its own passport.

And just to put thoughts into your head - I wonder if the Xpider pressdown bases would be an actual upgrade to the VE-50.

 

[DarthHowie]

Holy smokes, that is one massive upgrade. Congrats on that amazing new machine!

Although I really have to admit that your old machine has so much character, it surely has its own passport.

Thanks! If I ever sell my machine, I'm keeping the xpider bases and the toyo clamps.
Wise is still churning (i still have the replacement circuit board and load cell - which i still haven't replaced yet)
I've kept all the original gamma clamps (badminton + tennis) and clamp bases. The machine is still solid.

I've been jumping back and forth between the machines when things got "busy".

And just to put thoughts into your head - I wonder if the Xpider pressdown bases would be an actual upgrade to the VE-50.

I've gotten so used to the press down locking of the XPiders that reverting back to the swivel lock is an adjustment. I'll definitely give it a try one time.

 

[kakinami]

I understand positionally what it means.

I more mean the actual physical differences? Like how are the knots themselves different and why are the different?

I have used the same knot to start and stop on many of my rackets on this new adventure. They all held. So I am not not sure why a starting knot style would differ from a finishing knot.

Wow!! Sorry for not replying. When you use a starting knot you anchor it to a string and then pull tension, most stringers when using a starting knot pull 2 strings so the knot doesnt snap the main that it is anchored on. If you tie a starting knot and pull that cross most likely it will break the main. If you start with a starting clamp on your first cross you can actually fully tension that first cross, then say pull until cross #3 which would free up your clamp to use a finishing knot on your first cross. In a way a knot is a knot, if you cinch it well but some knots kinda lock better, for instance if you use a simple half hitch, most people would rock the tail back and forward to get it to lock. The Gudegon knot, if done correctly, only needs to be pulled 1 way to lock itself, the way I do it is towards the frame, I think Halim the stringer pulls away from the frame, my tail is against the frame and Master Halim is pointing towards the center of the frame. So some knots lock tighter than others. Knot what you thought? Knot, knot... Who's there? Knot me. Knot a fan? Sorry just being stupid.

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