Attacking in MD

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by DarkHiatus, Jan 20, 2016.

  1. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    At pro level, attacking badminton consists of almost always smashing if the shuttle is high, even on the back tramlines.

    I have no illusions about being a pro, however, the differences in handling a lift to a back corner troubles me. Personally, I prefer to smash these straight, with an occasional straight/crosscourt drop to keep opponents on their toes

    Last night, I was playing with a partner where the lift would come, I would smash, and the reply would be a (predictable) straight block to the net. My partner expected me to cover this reply, where I expected him to be attacking. Most of the time we would lose the point as I couldn't recover from a rearcourt jump smash. I stopped smashing from the back and just played a clear or drop instead, to allow me time to move back into a sides defensive position.

    Firstly, am I being unreasonable in expecting him to cover the front if I'm returning a high rearcourt lift to the corner? And secondly, even if it correct to do so, what can I do to play with this style of player optimally?
     
  2. Kikuhito Senshi

    Kikuhito Senshi Regular Member

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    1. Not unreasonable at all :)

    2. Tell your partner he needs to cover the net or get a different partner ;)
     
  3. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    Sounds like déjà vu. If the lift you smashed was short (i.e. mid-court), your partner may have a good reason to expect you to follow your own smash to the net. But if it's deep enough (e.g. close to 1st Doubles line), he should cover the net block, by positioning himself on same side of the court as you're before your smash.

    If it's anything deeper, you may consider use other shots than smashes, but if you do smash, consider not to jump. In this case, your opponents are predictable, but in practice, they could also cross-block/drive/lift to you, and you'd be playing full-court singles for the next shot. You could talk to your partner if he'd cover any of those shots.

    You could also do a search at BC for this topic. There's at least one other thread discussing this.
     
  4. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    A little more information is needed.

    As Raymond said, how far back into the back corner are you and also how close are you to the sideline?

    Where is your partner standing when you smash?
     
  5. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    I know OP szeneario pretty well. When you play sometimes with less experienced doubles player you will have always a debate in this situation.

    I try to analyse the situation and give [MENTION=124499]DarkHiatus[/MENTION] a few arguments which will assure your partner.

    When you move to the back, your partner should move 1-2 steps to the T. He would only get into trouble when you play a flat crosscourt clear, which is absoluteley nonsense. So when you clear, you clear 99% longline, so you partner will have enough time to move back to his side. So this step/steps towards the T isn't a dangerous situation.

    I think your partner stay at his side and wait for the crosscourt lift or crosscourt block. Both shots will give him more time to react. The fastest return is the straight and you will never get it, if you smash from the rear court. So why is he ready for the crosscourt block, which needs the most time of short returns and the crosscourt lift which is the shot which gives you the most time? Smashing should be an advantage and with his logic, it will never be.

    The smash is mostly in doubles not a winning shot. You need to penetrate the opponents defence to get a point. The first smash will mostly, and IMO when you smash from the back of the court, nearly never a real winner without preparation.

    If you smash straight, and than must take the straight block, you will give up the attack. You won't be able to take a shuttle that high and play anything offensive regardless how fast you are and how good your footwork is. Than you can only lift. So a smash without your partner, who cover a block at the net as combo isn't smart and effective. With his logic you could save your energy and play only a clear which isn't mostly a smart choice in doubles.

    IMO a smash outside the hip of one opponent and maybe near the tramlines is not the best placement. Especially if you smash from the back. If you smash from the around the head corner straight and your partner, who rushs to the net will be under pressure, because he must take it with his backhand. The forehand is to much way. I suggest to smash between both opponents through the middle. The angle of flat returns will bring your frontcourt player better in play.

    Your partner is wrong and IMO you could do something to get him better into play. FME it's not always worthy to do a full smash. A steep check smash/stick smash, will get your opponents into enough trouble. You won't get the point, but a full smash should only FME executed when you have a high chance to win the rally. So your jump smash is not timed well and maybe not steep.

    After all you should talk with your partner (if it is a longtime relationship) otherwise you will get frustrated and won't play seriously doubles. Try to deliver my arguments in a silent mood, without any other listeners. I think you will satisfy him. If not he might be a d***head. Be patience if he is a beginner or less experienced player. Just my 2 cents.
     
  6. bbirdman

    bbirdman Regular Member

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    I have this problem aswell. IMO its very common problem with especially lower level league players. Its annoying. Playing in Manchester myself, maybe its a Manchester thing haha.
     
  7. opikbidin

    opikbidin Regular Member

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    There needs to be more information

    1. From where do you smash?
    2. Where is the front player standing?
    3. Is your smash flat or steep?
    4. Is the smash return high or low?
    5. Philosophy of attacking : Stay front or back or rotating?
     
    #7 opikbidin, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
  8. alien9113

    alien9113 Regular Member

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    It's a common problem and it could be just a communication issue or techniques or both.

    If it's a communication issue, try talking with your partner and work it out. Another possibility would be to try out rotations of duties and see what both of you and your partner are comfortable with.

    One is the traditional front-back, back court player attacks, defender does a net block, front court player intercepts or sets it up again for the back court player to attack.

    Second one is the back court player attacks, defender does a net block and back court player comes forward straight away to intercept or set up. Front court/side player rotates to the back to continue the attack.

    Some are comfortable with first type of rotation and others more comfortable with the second type.

    If it's clear that you and your partner has different preferences, then a change of partner might be useful.

    On the technique side, are you able to cover the front court after you smash without jumping? If yes, one possibility is to not jump smash. Another possibility is to explore how high you should jump before you aren't able to recover fully and cover the front court. Personally I do the second option because my smashes aren't deadly enough and because I'm still not fast enough.

    If you can't cover the front court even without jumping smash, then you have to work on your techniques. I have seen many who could jump smash but couldn't get the returned shuttle because of technique error (mainly because they landed backwards instead of forward).

    Lastly, you might want to evaluate where you placed your smashes. At one time, I used to place smashes in certain areas only. When people got used to it and it was pointed out to me, I then learned to place smashes between players to force confusion and errors as well as smashing to my preferred areas if middle doesn't work. As well as dropshots, half smashes, both cross and straight.
     
  9. ipang_bam

    ipang_bam Regular Member

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    Brother Dark Hiatus..I'm understand situation that you had in the court, little dissapointed and frustated. Yeah It's a big trouble when a front man can't read the game as well. In your situation, maybe some tips for me can help ; 1) Try to smash in centre line. 2) Smash opponents body. 3) Forehand drop in near T line, to get best moment to deliver quality smash. 4) Keep attacking yyour weakest opponent player. If this can't help, try to push your partner to rear position, maybe his typical isn't the front man. Try to release the ego, keep read the game point by point. If your service reciever, try to play net / short. And make your opponents lift high the shuttle, and your partner play attack from base line. If this not bring benefit too, maybe another personal quality effected to the game, maybe focus and fitness not in perfect condition.
     
  10. opikbidin

    opikbidin Regular Member

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    Are these the situations?

    A hit smash to C or D (smash trajectory shown by blue) or other places like in the middle or tramlines
    D or C hit smash return (trajectory shown by red) in front of you, and your partner, B, is at the crosscourt

    wrong place1.jpg


    wrong place2.jpg

    Don't worry, many...I think most BC-ers have been put in this situation before. I was even at a worse situation where my partner run out of the court (it's true), so I don't know wnat to implement,

    By traditional front-back, my partner doesn't cover the front
    By rotating front <->back, my partner doesn't retreat as I go forward.
     
  11. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    The other thing to consider is that it may not be your partner's fault.

    If your smash is not good enough, and allows your opponents to easily counter attack, there would be little your partner can do. Also in this situation, your partner may have to stand more central rather than slightly to one side to anticipate a straight return.

    But even at pro level, against some of the best defenders, there will be times when the defence is just too good.
     
  12. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Thanks for all the ideas, guys. I'm glad that it does seem that I'm not being completely crazy! My partner is older than me and has more experience with the tactics of the game so it's difficult for me to be sure.

    The diagrams posted are pretty much what I experience: the forehand rearcourt corner near where the tramlines cross basically, smashing straight (I generally aim it down the tramlines relatively steep which means the common reply is a straight block to the net). Other reply is a lift as usual, but my smash is generally consistent enough not to give them the crosscourt net shot.

    My partner normally stands as if we are defending in this situation, but slightly shifted to the right (so quite central, but in the left half of the court - about 1-1.5m behind the T).

    Rotation generally isn't a problem outside of this specific instance. We transition between front/back and sides relatively well otherwise. If I'm on the other side (round the head smash), he's prepared to take the straight block oddly enough.

    I'll try and do a check/stick smash without the jump and reserve the jumping for a more aggressive partner.

    Regarding smashing from back corners to the middle - is it worth the additional reaction time? I do I occasionally to keep me from being predictable, but is it worth doing more often to take advantage of the confusion between the opposition?
     
  13. opikbidin

    opikbidin Regular Member

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    I'd say more than 90% and even 98% shots are either straight or at the middle. The middle is good because of the confusion factor and the smash return will usually will be straight ( to the middle, either block or lift) which is most dangerous as smashes from the middle is the most dangerous.

    Trying to return a smash to the middle to the empty area (crosscourt) is hard as it can go out to the side (in my case)

    so it's okay to aim to the middle. But be prepared as you have to move around the court more, including the front player. There will be more rotation especially during crosscourt returns. not recommended for those who don;t have stamina and speed
     
    #13 opikbidin, Jan 22, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
  14. OhSearsTower

    OhSearsTower Regular Member

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    definitely not a manchester problem
    its a very common problem expecially with lower league players here too!

    those players unfortunately are lower level players for a reason - so if you tell them they either dont get it right (be on the T before i hit the shuttle!!!! rather than waiting for my shot and then come too late :crying:) or they forget it quickly...
    its the same type of player who play a short net shot and run away from the net! they just do it for years and never change...


    personally, i do not change my game because of such problems
    i will not get used to bad habits because my partner plays wrong tactics, i just play the match, lose, and go on find a better partner
     
  15. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    If what you're doing now isn't working, it's definitely worth considering a change. Instead of having straight smash as a default, and use the middle as a variation, you could do the reverse. If you could convince (or change) your partner, then this is not a problem.

    By playing to the middle, just to be clear, we're talking about the space between the two opponents. Note also that it may not be the exact geometric center, equal distance from each of them. If one of them is faster, or more active, or simply better/stronger, he may cover more space. In this case, bias more to the other player (but still in between the two of them). You know, if you keep probing that area, you're bound to see either them both standing there, or racket clash.

    Playing to the middle in your case also brings your partner into the game, to maintain the attack.

    In summary, you should try to change your placement, and see if it's better.
     
  16. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    If you are in the position that those diagrams show, then I strongly suggest you do not smash. If you do smash down the tramlines, you definitely have to be prepared to come into the net. Any decent opponent is going to block there.

    May I ask why you choose to smash down the tramlines? Usually, if you smash, you should be smashing so that your partner is able to reach the opponent's reply very easily, which means smashing to somewhere to the opponent's end in front of your partner.

    I also think if your partner is standing exactly as shown in the diagrams, he is also positioned suboptimally - he should be on the court on the same side near the T area.

    When is the diagram the correct position for the forecourt player? When you are in the midcourt or 3/4 court back and able to smash, then run to the net. And your smash should be to the middle - not to the tramline (unless there is a massive space there for an outright winner).

    In summary, smash is the wrong choice of shot for your original position.
     

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