Chen Long ( 谌龙 )

Discussion in 'China Professional Players' started by robin7, Nov 6, 2007.

  1. antssantss

    antssantss Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    120
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Malaysia
    When CL plays like this its far from boring.
    You need stamina, great defence and a good attacking game. Both SY and Cl play a similar sort of game but Cl is the master of this style. He wears down his opponents who begin to make mistakes as frustration sets in. SY plays a boring game and lacks the experience that CL has gained playing with LCW and LD. Thats why SY said he didnt know what to do when he played against KM.
     
    Baddyforall likes this.
  2. mater

    mater Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    480
    Likes Received:
    16
    Occupation:
    Postal Worker
    Location:
    Badminton Central
    CL is probably my favorite singles player to watch. He just seems like he's having more fun on the court than others. It is sad to see him drop so fast but still watch him every chance I can.
     
    Justin L, Arisuin and baddie47 like this.
  3. Baddyforall

    Baddyforall Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2015
    Messages:
    5,244
    Likes Received:
    1,176
    Location:
    On the Wheel
    Watched the match of chen long's match with that japanese player once again. I must say that Chen Long played really well . He lost to him in earlier encounters when he was not in his full form. His controlled game and extra ordinary quality in shots really frustrated opponents time and time again. Now, he won a title. I am looking forward to next week's tournament in china. That would be interesting. Hoping for the best to come.

    Sent from my SM-G600FY using Tapatalk
     
  4. lurker

    lurker Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,115
    Likes Received:
    398
    Location:
    KL, Msia
    Some love for the Dragon!

    IMG_2049.jpg
     
    Saru, Master, CLELY and 1 other person like this.
  5. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    48,811
    Likes Received:
    2,938
    Location:
    Citizen of The World
    Finally, The Return of The Dragon !?
     
  6. cboptkh

    cboptkh New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2018
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    singapore
    Good to see Chen Long finding back his Rio 16 form.
    In a way, seeing Lin Dan and Lee Chong Wei stilling fighting for Olympic 2020 has motivated him.
     
  7. AlexMak

    AlexMak Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    player
    Location:
    HK
    hope he will come back
     
  8. Nine Tailed Fox

    Nine Tailed Fox Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2015
    Messages:
    9,363
    Likes Received:
    1,987
    Location:
    New Delhi
    Lost again in the first round. Age is finally starting to show true decline.
     
    racketman123 likes this.
  9. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    48,811
    Likes Received:
    2,938
    Location:
    Citizen of The World
    Allow me to express some thoughts evoked by Chen Long's underwhelming performance in recent years since his return to active competition after a six-month hiatus post-Rio'16.

    First off, he is not as fortunate as Lin Dan as to benefit from the personal coaching and mentorship of the legendary, great grandmaster Tang Xianhu. I recall reading somewhere that when Li Yongbo first tasked TXH to specifically take charge of Lin Dan one year prior to the Beijing Olympics,Tang realized his job is not so much to impart technical knowledge and tactics to Lin Dan whom he believed is already more or less at the top in that regard but more to boost his self-confidence and instill a sense of inner belief that he can do it as he is at that time the best of the best. But I mention this point only in passing though for Chen Long's Tokyo 2020 OG quest, a good measure of confidence and self-belief - that he can still achieve it in spite of his growing age now 30 and will be 31 by then - certainly helps. Having the right mindset is what drives great athletes to success.

    Secondly, and more importantly,in my view, is what Tang Xianhu said about the relationship between coaching and the players' part in training. He notably said, and I paraphrase, that it's not good enough for a player to just maintain his standard, even if he's already the best, for to do so means he is not really improving and, over time,he will stagnate and, sooner than expected, find himself overtaken by his main rivals. Instead, it's absolutely necessary that a top player continuously works on his game to keep abreast of the competition. And it's this perspective of his that struck me , even today, as most enlightening and particularly relevant for badminton at the highest level.

    On that second note, I would earnestly urge Chen Long to concentrate on improving his technical aspects of the game , including reading and anticipation ability, much more than his physical aspect which I believe is still as good as he was in his heyday despite his current age of 30; otherwise, I'm afraid, he's not going to make it to the winners podium, assuming he qualifies for a spot to Tokyo 2020, for which it looks likely at the moment.

    As it is, his performance has been lackluster these past few years, to say the least. To compound matters further, I'm quite sure his game has been thoroughly scrutinised and deeply analysed by practically all his opponents, young and old. And, yet, he continues to keep playing his 'normal standard' game and relying on his just as 'remarkable physicality' to overpower most of his opponents. So far, things do not seem to bode well for him.

    Even so, I am not prepared to rule him out of Olympic medal contention just yet. The fact that some older players around 30 , such as Brice Leverdez, Hans Kristian Vittinghus, just to name two in recent years, could reach a new peak in their career is proof positive that the possibility is very real. What's more, didn't Lin Dan and LCW, most notably, showed they were still very much the players to beat in their early 30s ?

    In conclusion, I'd like to believe that Chen Long too has the caliber to peak one last time for the Tokyo Olympics for he was able to reach the apex of his career , winning two WC titles and one OG gold, while still in the magnificent (albeit tail-end) era of Lin Dan - Lee CW. Lest we forget,the 2013 WC was contested between Lin Dan and LCW whilst the 2014/2015/2016 WC and OG were fought between Chen Long and LCW. Also note that Lin Dan was absent in the 2014 WC as he wasn't awarded a wild card entry by BWF, unlike for the 2013 WC, but at the Incheon Asian Games'14 he captured gold beating both Chen Long in the semifinals and LCW in the final. In other words, it speaks volumes of Chen Long's singular accomplishments in that he achieved them against the two great living legends at a time when nobody could challenge them.
     
    Baddie lover likes this.
  10. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    7,167
    Likes Received:
    1,370
    Location:
    Germany
    But how?
     
  11. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    48,811
    Likes Received:
    2,938
    Location:
    Citizen of The World
    How did, say, Wei Nan, Hu Yun, Sho Sasaki, Brice Leverdez, Hans Kristian Vittinghus do it ?

    Btw, Leverdez has Chen Gang, the ex-Chinese coach to train him , from what I've read somewhere. Sho Sasaki is an interesting case, he's not only a remarkable late bloomer, I'm intrigued by his Zen meditation retreats before he played every tournament, a sort of mental preparation for him(which I once suggested that Li Xuerui do something similar but I doubt she did).

    Anyway, as to your specific question ( I sense a degree of cynicism, perhaps) - that's for him and his coach to work it out.

    Previously, for Chen Long's WC preparation, Li Yongbo engaged Sun Jun to train him personally for several months and he succeeded in overcoming LCW in 2014 and 2015 for the world titles. That's why Wang Shixian also approached Sun Jun for his coaching service when she wanted to come out of retirement temporarily to compete in the 2017 China National Games for the last time before she finally retired for good and she made it into the WS final but lost to Chen Yufei, still a commendable result for her after a six-month training under Sun Jun.
     
  12. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    7,167
    Likes Received:
    1,370
    Location:
    Germany
    I wouldn't say the players you mentioned have great reading skills. Yes, they are fine players and most of them late-bloomers and still playing good badminton, but not necessarily because of their reading and anticipation skills.

    Yes indeed, I'm being a bit skeptical wether you can improve something like that. Stamina, physical fitness, power or explosiveness, sure, but reading and anticipation sounds very very difficult. I think it's something you either have or don't. Usually the reading comes from playing lots of different players over the years, which Chen Long already did. It's not like he is inexperienced. And we also have to differentiate between reading the game overall and being familiar with one particular players' game (e. g. Chen Long knowing LCW's game through excessive coaching).

    Take for example the exercise where you cover the net with a blanket, towel or whatever and the coach plays underhand shots. What they are doing is not improving the anticipation skills, but the players' capability to still react in a reasonable amount of time when being late to the shot. Then there's that other exercise where they do video analysis and show the opponent just before he plays a shot and the player has to decide which shot he is going to play. Now, is that really improving the reading skills in a match situation?
     
    #1352 Rob3rt, Mar 31, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
  13. Sundis

    Sundis Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,470
    Likes Received:
    380
    Occupation:
    Watching and playing badminton
    Location:
    at home
    After RIO 2016 a lethargic and casually playing CL appeared, he lost the next tournament after the OG, his home tournament the China open to O´Jorgensen in the final. After that he struggled to string some great results together. He won CHN open 2017 though but I dont remember so much else, French open 2018 also I guess he won.
     
  14. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    48,811
    Likes Received:
    2,938
    Location:
    Citizen of The World
    Yes, indeed, reading the opponent's game and anticipation is the most difficult thing to do, I couldn't agree with you more. Still that's what I hope he can improve on the most based on his accumulated experience, maturity and lots of training with players of different playing styles.

    Note that Chen Long wasn't particularly good at that aspect of the game in the past and yet he could beat LCW for the three most coveted major titles. But also bear in mind, he didn't just overcome LCW, en route to the final he had to face other tough contenders, so you can't say he's trained specifically to take on LCW alone while ignoring the rest of the opposition as if they posed little to no threat to him. Besides, he wouldn't know in advance (apart from the players list) exactly who he would meet from the opening round to the final. Even after the draw was made, he couldn't be too sure about each possible opponent's form and standard at that time ,e.g., some players might improve their game significantly, less familiar opponents could surprise you (remember how he was stunned by a certain Guatemalan Keven Cordon in 2011 WC, perhaps irrelevant if we only consider his best years), certain opponents might rise to the occasion or play above themselves, not to mention unforeseen circumstances might arise, or whatever.

    My point is during those years when Chen Long was in the ascendancy, he and his coaches, Sun Jun and Xia Xuanze, must have done something very right to elevate him to the top of the heap. Personally, I'm hoping he and his coaches can do that again under a new set of circumstances and different challenges. Talking about the need for improving his reading of the game and anticipation ability is just my own wish for him but, I believe, Chen Long himself and his coaches know better, in view of his current situation , his strengths and weaknesses, his shortcoming and limitation, what he can or cannot do ,what areas he can still improve on, such as wider shot variation, a bit more deception, perhaps, play more aggressively, more sudden injection of pace and suchlike, or, generally speaking, adopt a different but suitable gameplan against different opponents according to their playing styles, etc, etc. Just saying.

    By the way, for the Rio Olympics, Chen Long specially credited Wang Shixian for his success as he had promised to bring home the gold medal as a gift to her, and,on her part, she actually flew to Rio and stayed in a nearby hotel to cook for him and spend some quality and romantic time with him - the impact of such a motivation cannot be underestimated considering he was among the top three contenders for Olympic gold. In fact as early as the London Olympics 2012, Li Yongbo was openly saying to watch out for Chen Long who might be the one to mount the winners podium for gold but, as we know, he lost to LCW in the semifinals and went on to take bronze beating Lee Hyun Il in the play-off.

    To be honest, what irks me the most about Chen Long is that his basic game is very strong but he has a tendency ,I call it a 'bad habit', to play mostly simple, straightforward and all too predictable textbook shots and at a pace that the opponents find comfortable so much so that he often finds himself losing the initiative ,being dictated to, getting entangled and unable to extricate himself. To put it another way, as Li Yongbo impressed upon him at the Rio Olympics after he dropped G2 to Son Wan Ho, the only hiccup to an otherwise perfect rendering from the get-go in the opening round all the way to the final , a consummate display of masterclass badminton at the highest level:" Don't play to the opponent's rhythm, play at your own rhythm." , said during the break before the start of G3. Timely advice that woke Chen Long up, he immediately reasserted himself and stamped his authority on Son Wan Ho to romp home to victory in commanding fashion again.

    I know, all that is history now. Admittedly, it seems to me that Chen Long, in spite of his multiple World and Olympic Champion status, is the most under-appreciated and underrated titleholders in recent times, the forgettable Ji Xinpeng, the Sydney 2000 OG gold medallist aside.

    Nevertheless, the question is, can he do it again ? Perhaps it's wishful thinking on my part, certainly not fanboyism, it's just not me, but, I'd to think he still has at least an outside, if not realistic, chance of achieving it again. Not a high probability,I concede, but not mission impossible, either.

    In reply to your question in the last paragraph, I have only this to say, don't confuse random guesswork with anticipation based on reading the opponent's game, two entirely different matters.

    Finally, even if you have a good reading of the game and hence anticipation ability, you are still beatable if other important aspects of your game is not fully up to it. That's why, even Kento Momota, who is highly capable in that regard, was defeated by eight different opponents in the last one year or so when he was on the comeback trail, but discounting 2017 as he was initially struggling to regain his form after a one-year imposed layoff. As Momota himself has given the reasons for each of those nine losses (twice in a row to Anthony Ginting), I shan't presumed to delve into it. Suffice to say that as long as you've a vulnerability, your opponent, while probing for weaknesses discovered it, would definitely waste no time in exploiting it to his maximum advantage.

    When even Momota, the most hotshot player the past one year, understands the necessity to continue working on his game, I'm sure Chen Long, despite his manifest accomplishments, is no exception and, for that matter, anyone else. Precisely, the legendary grandmaster Tang Xianhu's sage advice , no less.

    Ah, before I forget, it was none other than Super Dan who has said more than once that when he saw Lee CW constantly snapping at his heels, he felt the urgency to be continuously on his toes, and that's what motivated him to be better and better, thanks largely to LCW's great rivalry. You might like to know that in Lin Dan's early years it was first Peter Gade, then Taufik Hidayat, who lifted up his game before LCW took over to become his greatest archrival for many years that comprised the highlights of his glorious career. Pardon my long-winded post.
     
    antssantss likes this.
  15. Baddyforall

    Baddyforall Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2015
    Messages:
    5,244
    Likes Received:
    1,176
    Location:
    On the Wheel
    Justin, even I thought of reading the post but once I saw the length I simply could not. Why don't you write it short?
     
  16. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    48,811
    Likes Received:
    2,938
    Location:
    Citizen of The World
    Yes, Chen Long virtually rested on his laurels after the apex of his career winning the Rio Olympic gold and taking a six-month break, after which he is never the same again until today. At least, he showed glimpses of his former self by beating Viktor Axelsen decisively at the MAS Masters this January in the semis before losing to Son Wan Ho in the final.

    Right, at the French Open 2018, he beat Kento Momota in the SF and then Shi Yuqi in the final for the title. At the WC'18, he also knocked out VA in the QFs. Correct, at the 2017 Tahoe China Open, he overcame VA, the then reigning world champion, to lift the trophy. In that same year, he also captured the BAC'17 title beating Shi Yuqi and Lin Dan to it in the SF and Final respectively.

    All in all, if not for the fact that he is Chen Long, we probably won't be so dismissive of or disparage such results by lesser players. The guy is still WR5, MS2 in CBA (Lin Dan as MS3 is good distance behind), and at age 30 , not too old, physically as robust as ever, and, more importantly, he's made known his strong desire to strive for greater success and aim for another Olympics for which he has the unconditional and endless support and encouragement from his beloved Wang Shixian.
     
    antssantss and Saru like this.
  17. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    48,811
    Likes Received:
    2,938
    Location:
    Citizen of The World
    Haha, blame Chen Long.:D I've mixed feelings for him, a bit more positive than negative, admittedly. I mean, all these pent-up thoughts and emotions accumulated over the last couple of years released at one go. My apologies for getting carried away.:)
     
  18. GingerCorslette

    GingerCorslette Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2017
    Messages:
    502
    Likes Received:
    144
    Location:
    Asia
    If y'all actually watch videos of when he's losing, it's because of his style of play. Too predictable. No matter how good he is as a defender, the opponents keep getting early on shots.

    Same with LD and his lifting to deep forehand (when opponent is right-handed). Opponents read it now, and LD can't defend most of the shots coming back like he used to. Although LD is more deceptive and has more variety, CL is less prone to errors.
     
  19. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    369
    Occupation:
    Chartered Civil Engineer
    Location:
    London, UK
    Actually, I quite enjoy reading these long posts. It's a good post, lots of insight and nuggets you wouldn't get unless someone just as well informed posted otherwise.

    I say keep them coming Justin L! :D
     
  20. antssantss

    antssantss Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    120
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Malaysia
    I totally agree . Justin your comments are well worth reading and your analysis of the players is very good.
     
    #1360 antssantss, Apr 2, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019

Share This Page