Discussion on GOAT, comparison between different eras and players, etc.

So Xia Xuanze and Hendrawan are now apparently on another level compare to LCW. Cool story:D

It's like saying Li/Liu are better than Gideon/Sukamuljo because they have won WC. Even though Sukamuljo spanked their butts and bully their way to win on every single match leading to 11-2 H2H.

I'm no rocket scientist, but it ain't right.
 
There must be something with Sir Xia Xuanze and Sir Hendrawan that they were able to become WORLD CHAMPIONS of 2003 and 2001 in addition to their Olympic Bronze and Silver Medals which shows their Fighting spirit and Mental stength.

Talking about Sir Xia Xuanze and Sir Hendrawan,their careers have given major Upsets and a born to an ALC
( Peter Gade )

At Olympics 2000 Sir Xia Xuanze defeated Peter Gade in straight sets and earned the Bronze Medal with style against him and At World Championships 2001 Sir Hendrawan defeated Peter Gade in the finals of World Championships and he missed out on being OFFICIALLY tagged as a CHAMPION by these two WORLD CHAMPIONS

For Peter It was his best chance to have an Olympic Medal and World Tittle in his cabinet but sadly Sir.Xia Xuanze and Sir Hendrawan rightfully snatched it away.

I have huge respect for Peter,LCW and other ALCs because they were all Number 1s at some point and have good achievements to their name However,Sir Xia Xuanze and Sir Hendrawan's SINGLE WORLD TITTLE is something that ALCs dont have.
 
BojepJoe said:
So Xia Xuanze and Hendrawan are now apparently on another level compare to LCW. Cool story:D

It's like saying Li/Liu are better than Gideon/Sukamuljo because they have won WC. Even though Sukamuljo spanked their butts and bully their way to win on every single match leading to 11-2 H2H.

I'm no rocket scientist, but it ain't right.
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yeah who cares, people have their own judgment on who's better. LCW is better than XXZ or Hendrawan but if he is not, let the money talks and see who have more. easy and fair.
 
I wish Money could buy me some Olympic or Worlds Tittles However that shall always remain a WISH ..For In Reality these biggest GOLD MEDALS and TITTLES are a result of a combination of Skills,Mental strength and Fighting spirit that makes Normal players LEGENDS and GOATS.

Sadly All the ALCs and GROATS,despite some of them being highly rich,could never get themselves the OFFICIAL TITTLE of being a CHAMPION OF THE YEAR.

#NoOffence #MoneyCantBuyEverything
 
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Talk like OlympicChampion buy you everything in life. lol. at most it buys you some tournaments..
 
To all putting Money in the Equation, I would say,Yes it is important but you only get rich once you earn big,and brightest example of this is my joint Fav Queen the 2019 World Champion PV Sindhu.

She has become the only female Badminton player ever on the planet who have appeared twice consecutive on Forbes Magazine and is anticipated to break into top 10 this year again and make her third consecutive appearance as the Only and Richest Female badminton athlete on planet.

But have you wondered how did she manage to get so rich even so much that her best friend and my joint fav Queen Olympic and Thrice World Champion Carolina Marin stated that Sindhu has earned way much more winning the Silver than she did by winning the Gold after the Olympics..So here is my answer to that.

You See Sindhu has been winning at biggest stages since she was a teen remember Ratchanok being 18 and won the World Tittle..Sindhu was at that same podium with a bronze even before her much hyped compatriot and Olympic Bronze Medalist hadnt won any Worlds Medal.

When she won bronze at Worlds 2013 she was rewarded big, then she won again at 2014,She was rewarded huge money and cheques again then for 15 she couldnt go past Quarters so only that year she didnt get a major medal after that till 2019 she always stood at the Biggest podiums.

Now Came 2016,She was 9 in rankings and yet stood at the biggest sporting podium with her flag high even though she lost a hard fought three set match but being first indian to play at the finals made her the darling of a billion people and that was the main medal that skyrocketed her Millions to MULTI MILLIONS and then properties and cars and all of that came.

Then after two WC Silvers she did get huge amount of money and cars and acres of land and flats and stuff but people wanted her to win that Big Gold of the year and So

In 2019 When she did win the Biggest Gold of the year which she was waiting for the flow of millions started again and this time addition to more land for badminton academey in two three cities for her and a few more luxury Cars to her already 20-30 Luxury ones and obviously her net worth even surpassing some of the male world no.1s which is estimated to be over $xxx USD (inclusive of Properties,Cars,Endorsements,Prize money and all of it )

Now If she wins at Tokyo I mean if its Gold then I got no words it will be just massive but even if she wins a silver or bronze it will still be huge because this will be her consecutive Olympic medal and even if she doesnt she has so much of it that its a wonderful world for her as she has a job as a Deputy Collector which she wishes to continue to serve her country.

So Yeah Money does matter but It only comes if your As Consistent as PV Sindhu at the Biggest tournament of the year.

2013 WC Bronze
2014 WC Bronze
2015 ------------------
2016 OG Silver
2017 WC Silver
2018 WC Silver
2019 WC Gold

Not counting her ( WORLD TOUR TITTLE and Silver )
 
Anks said:
To all putting Money in the Equation, I would say,Yes it is important but you only get rich once you earn big,and brightest example of this is my joint Fav Queen the 2019 World Champion PV Sindhu.

She has become the only female Badminton player ever on the planet who have appeared twice consecutive on Forbes Magazine and is anticipated to break into top 10 this year again and make her third consecutive appearance as the Only and Richest Female badminton athlete on planet.

But have you wondered how did she manage to get so rich even so much that her best friend and my joint fav Queen Olympic and Thrice World Champion Carolina Marin stated that Sindhu has earned way much more winning the Silver than she did by winning the Gold after the Olympics..So here is my answer to that.

You See Sindhu has been winning at biggest stages since she was a teen remember Ratchanok being 18 and won the World Tittle..Sindhu was at that same podium with a bronze even before her much hyped compatriot and Olympic Bronze Medalist hadnt won any Worlds Medal.

When she won bronze at Worlds 2013 she was rewarded big, then she won again at 2014,She was rewarded huge money and cheques again then for 15 she couldnt go past Quarters so only that year she didnt get a major medal after that till 2019 she always stood at the Biggest podiums.

Now Came 2016,She was 9 in rankings and yet stood at the biggest sporting podium with her flag high even though she lost a hard fought three set match but being first indian to play at the finals made her the darling of a billion people and that was the main medal that skyrocketed her Millions to MULTI MILLIONS and then properties and cars and all of that came.

Then after two WC Silvers she did get huge amount of money and cars and acres of land and flats and stuff but people wanted her to win that Big Gold of the year and So

In 2019 When she did win the Biggest Gold of the year which she was waiting for the flow of millions started again and this time addition to more land for badminton academey in two three cities for her and a few more luxury Cars to her already 20-30 Luxury ones and obviously her net worth even surpassing some of the male world no.1s which is estimated to be over $xxx USD (inclusive of Properties,Cars,Endorsements,Prize money and all of it )

Now If she wins at Tokyo I mean if its Gold then I got no words it will be just massive but even if she wins a silver or bronze it will still be huge because this will be her consecutive Olympic medal and even if she doesnt she has so much of it that its a wonderful world for her as she has a job as a Deputy Collector which she wishes to continue to serve her country.

So Yeah Money does matter but It only comes if your As Consistent as PV Sindhu at the Biggest tournament of the year.

2013 WC Bronze
2014 WC Bronze
2015 ------------------
2016 OG Silver
2017 WC Silver
2018 WC Silver
2019 WC Gold

Not counting her ( WORLD TOUR TITTLE and Silver )
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I think Sindhu gets so much endorsement contracts, luxury cars, etc etc . It's because here people (non badminton followers) only know about Olympics and Worlds. Corporates would like to cash in on an individual's achievements .And remember we're not a country where winning Olympics medals is a normal thing. What changed Sindhu's bank balance trajectory was Rio silver, had she been from any other badminton or sports powerhouse country I doubt she would have even got 10 percent of what she's getting. So money is not a factor which defines greatness.

Whereas Carolina Marin is from a country where they already have a good record at Olympics. There, Olympic champions and World champions are in good number. Hence she doesn't get endorsements or $$ she deserves. Sindhu and India both are lucky to have each other, and Carolina is little unlucky that she is from a sporting powerhouse country already. Though I think, Carolina is satisfied with what she has. Money is not everything for everybody. I would choose decent amount of money and respect than only money.
 
Baddie lover said:
I think Sindhu gets so much endorsement contracts, luxury cars, etc etc . It's because here people (non badminton followers) only know about Olympics and Worlds. Corporates would like to cash in on an individual's achievements .And remember we're not a country where winning Olympics medals is a normal thing. What changed Sindhu's bank balance trajectory was Rio silver, had she been from any other badminton or sports powerhouse country I doubt she would have even got 10 percent of what she's getting. So money is not a factor which defines greatness.

Whereas Carolina Marin is from a country where they already have a good record at Olympics. There, Olympic champions and World champions are in good number. Hence she doesn't get endorsements or $$ she deserves. Sindhu and India both are lucky to have each other, and Carolina is little unlucky that she is from a sporting powerhouse country already. Though I think, Carolina is satisfied with what she has. Money is not everything for everybody. I would choose decent amount of money and respect than only money.
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Indeed,Had Carolina been an Indian..I cant even imagine lolz...Perhaps we would have the first Billionare of Badminton World :D
 
Usually in sports GOAT talk, what matters is the player's skills, titles won and his dominance over his peers. There are also lesser points like longevity or how someone changed the sport (like the Sidek serve). Usually it doesn't consider stuff like off court behavior, money earned, etc.

I'd say in Men's Singles most people would agree it's Lin Dan. Would people also agree it's Zheng Siwei in Mixed Doubles?
 
Why can we compare across eras for GOAT discussions but not across disciplines? The MS games played across eras are arguably as different as the games played across MS and WS now, given all the technology and fitness differences from past to present. So how is it fairer to compare Zhao Jianhua with Lin Dan than it is to compare Lin Dan with Marin for example? Given that in both cases the players will never be able to directly spar each other.

The conclusion doesn’t matter, I’m only questioning the principle behind the comparisons across eras. To me, it’s as absurd as comparing Mayweather and Mohammad Ali, because it’s pure speculation. Who knows, Zhao Jianhua might have been even better with all the new technology to match Lin Dan had they played in the same era. We’ll never know, so these psuedo direct comparisons are nothing but speculation with a bit of bias in favor of the present as compared to the past
 
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rhoder said:
Why can we compare across eras for GOAT discussions but not across disciplines? The MS games played across eras are arguably as different as the games played across MS and WS now, given all the technology and fitness differences from past to present. So how is it fairer to compare Zhao Jianhua with Lin Dan than it is to compare Lin Dan with Marin for example? Given that in both cases the players will never be able to directly spar each other.

The conclusion doesn’t matter, I’m only questioning the principle behind the comparisons across eras. To me, it’s as absurd as comparing Mayweather and Mohammad Ali, because it’s pure speculation. Who knows, Zhao Jianhua might have been even better with all the new technology to match Lin Dan had they played in the same era. We’ll never know, so these psuedo direct comparisons are nothing but speculation with a bit of bias in favor of the present as compared to the past
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yes, its bias cos goat is not something specified like a trophy. Phelps is not the fastest swimmer but the goat. If we had the time machine to bring all the best players at their best for a champion, we would know who in which time is the best of all time. But goat is something more, including long career, special skill, the fame, the influence,... and especially the achievement
 
vozer here said:
yes, its bias cos goat is not something specified like a trophy. Phelps is not the fastest swimmer but the goat. If we had the time machine to bring all the best players at their best for a champion, we would know who in which time is the best of all time. But goat is something more, including long career, special skill, the fame, the influence,... and especially the achievement
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Okay, but even achievements are not well defined. Zhao or anyone of his era never had the opportunity to win OGs, WCs or other prestigious tournaments that we have today. So how can we compare achievements to that of LD then?

Everything else you mentioned are all intangibles and can change depending on one’s POV. One man’s GOAT may not be another man’s GOAT. Declaring someone as “the GOAT” is just to justify one’s own belief and project that onto others.

The only thing that can be said is Phelps is the greatest swimmer of his era, just as LD is of his.
 
rhoder said:
Okay, but even achievements are not well defined. Zhao or anyone of his era never had the opportunity to win OGs, WCs or other prestigious tournaments that we have today. So how can we compare achievements to that of LD then?

Everything else you mentioned are all intangibles and can change depending on one’s POV. One man’s GOAT may not be another man’s GOAT. Declaring someone as “the GOAT” is just to justify one’s own belief and project that onto others.

The only thing that can be said is Phelps is the greatest swimmer of his era, just as LD is of his.
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yes, its bias. For majority's POV, lin is GOAT
 
rhoder said:
Why can we compare across eras for GOAT discussions but not across disciplines? The MS games played across eras are arguably as different as the games played across MS and WS now, given all the technology and fitness differences from past to present. So how is it fairer to compare Zhao Jianhua with Lin Dan than it is to compare Lin Dan with Marin for example? Given that in both cases the players will never be able to directly spar each other.

The conclusion doesn’t matter, I’m only questioning the principle behind the comparisons across eras. To me, it’s as absurd as comparing Mayweather and Mohammad Ali, because it’s pure speculation. Who knows, Zhao Jianhua might have been even better with all the new technology to match Lin Dan had they played in the same era. We’ll never know, so these psuedo direct comparisons are nothing but speculation with a bit of bias in favor of the present as compared to the past
Click to expand...
Do remember that GOAT talks are just subjective fun. Therefore, of course there will be speculations and assumptions, hopefully educated speculations. But usually there's ground rules that's agreed upon. One of the ground rules is usually we take players as they were, not how they might be if growing up in the present era or past era or what if they have no injury.
 
SSSSNT said:
Do remember that GOAT talks are just subjective fun. Therefore, of course there will be speculations and assumptions, hopefully educated speculations. But usually there's ground rules that's agreed upon. One of the ground rules is usually we take players as they were, not how they might be if growing up in the present era or past era or what if they have no injury.
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Yeah haha I get that, but some of the other people here talk as if they’re discussing cold hard facts, that’s not fair to the pioneers of our sport.

But anyway I’m out of here, have fun with speculation guys!
 
rhoder said:
Yeah haha I get that, but some of the other people here talk as if they’re discussing cold hard facts, that’s not fair to the pioneers of our sport.

But anyway I’m out of here, have fun with speculation guys!
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Well, I think it's safe and fair to say that the pioneers for any sport were much worse than the more modern players. And that's actually a very good thing! In the future I hope to see a player we can all agree is much better than Lin Dan.
 
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