Finals...

Discussion in 'All England 2004' started by Syaoran_Style, Mar 13, 2004.

  1. spectra

    spectra Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2003
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Kuala Lumpur , Malaysia
    i'm speechless...and kwun knew why ...
    hahahahahaha
     
  2. rejang

    rejang Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think the M'sian pair only has themselves to blame for losing the finals. At the end of the day they just do not have what it takes to stay focus in an important match despite the setbacks of the umpire's call.

    Having said that, I have to say that the umpire's somewhat unjustifiable decision marks the turning point of the whole match, and to a great extent an inproper decision.

    First of all, the decision virtually robs the M'sians of the deciding 2nd set, coming at such an important junction of the set. I think the penalty is only part of the problem; the yellow card adds salt to wounds. It is rather difficult to expect the pair to refocus so quickly if they felt that they are unjustifiably done by the umpire.

    In fact I question totally the right of the umoire to do what she did. Maybe one can give her the benefit of the doubt on the point awarded to the Danes for the service, it is rather incredible that the umpire overrides the legitimate right of a player to seek the arbitration/decision of the tournament referee. Not only she overrides such a request, which is the only avenue to protest her own decision, she even penalise the player who seek remedy against her decision!! I think the IBF may have to take a hard look at the credentials of this lady.
     
  3. Runner23

    Runner23 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Stock Analyst
    Location:
    Orange County, USA
    Well,

    It would seem that a lot of badmintonforum people are not very observant when watching badminton on TV.

    Regarding Men's Singles:
    Peter Gade showed that he is indeed a superior player when it comes to sheer technique, thinking and strategy. To all those people who say that he threw away the 2nd and 3rd games: He was tired, very tired indeed. Peter had a much harder way to the final. Add to that that he is still struggling with coming back from his knee injury. He has only just recently been able to start training twice a day, and only 2 times a week does he train twice. If he could have trained twice a day all week long for a longer period, he would have won. Brain beating brawn.

    Peter lost because of his inferior physique, but he also showed that he is a better PLAYER than Lin. After all, Lin is a chinese copy of Peter. Look at the way he serves and plays generally. It is very apparent that he has tried to emulate Gade.

    Regarding Men's doubles:
    Jane Hancock's call was correct. Lee Wan Wah deserves both a point penalty and a yellow card for VERY BAD sportsmanship. He repeatedly pretended he was not ready when being served too, only trying to throw the server's concentration off by using such ill-reputed psychological tricks. He did the same thing with several times refusing to have the shuttle changed.
    The only thing you can argue, according to the rules, is whether he should have been warned first. He certainly warranted a warning, but the umpire is not obliged to give him warning first.
    In the end, it's only proper payoff for using cheap tricks like that.
    And by the way, Lee Wan Wah shouldn't complain- he was allowed to do an overhand serve most of the time without being faulted.
     
  4. Runner23

    Runner23 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Stock Analyst
    Location:
    Orange County, USA
    By the way, Kwun.
    "Denmark Kunne" has no meaning in Danish- at least not when cheering.

    It literally means "Denmark could". And unless you want to make a remark about Danish players being has-beens it won't make any sense :)

    A more standard idiom when cheering could perhaps be "kom saa"- it means "come on"
     
  5. viver

    viver Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,765
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Interesting points. I did not watch the games, too bad here in Canada we seldom have chance to watch top level badminton games.

    From what I've seen before, Peter Gade is a very good player. Very fast, powerful smashes and quick to the net. Too bad it seems that on big occasions he gets a bit nervous. Lin Dan is also very fast and the last game I watched was against Wong Choong Haan - China open??. Lin is a fighter, apparently very strong mentally and a positive attitude towards any match. Also it appears that his game is more all around, not relying only on smashes and net. He moves his opponents around with good shots placements and outstanding in changing direction and rhythm. If Peter Gade is technically better I don't know - have not watched enough both of them to compare, but should be the more experience of the two.

    On the men's doubles, I believe you may the describing what was missed on other posts. Frankly speaking I would either bet on the Danes - more on JR/LP or Chinese pair Cai/Fu to win the title. The Malaysians could have gone to the president umpire to complain the decision if they thouhgt it was unfair. On the other hand, the umpire might be right to issue the warning and deduct a point(?), but the question remains on the timing. If the Malaysians were behaving not properly, the warning and penalty should occur earlier in the match. Why at the late stages of the game? These issues happened before and as far as I know, experienced umpires always consider the effect of the penalties on the outcome of the matches. The umpire is there to ensure the match is played is the fairest situation and should not favour any side. I would ask, do you think the umpire decision did affect the outcome of the match? As I mentioned, I did not watch the games and don't really know what has happened. And please don't be offended if my comments does not sound right.
     
  6. Runner23

    Runner23 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Stock Analyst
    Location:
    Orange County, USA
    In the first set Peter showed that he was superior in all aspects- except physique unfortunately. He overplayed Lin several time and succeded in wrong-footing Lin as well. And when it comes to deception and slicing, Peter is far better (that's what I meant with tecnique). If he can continue the positive development with his recovery, he might be able to reclaim his lost throne.

    Of course, any umpire has to secure fairness in the game. I think the logic behind her evaluation was that when Wan Wah did his "I look ready, but I'm not" trick for the Xth time, it was too much, and hence he was faulted.
    Of course you're allowed to not be ready when being served too, but not if you do it more often than not, which was Wan Wah's case.

    When manipulating and twisting the more ethical parts of the game like that and doing overhand serves continuously, you must also be prepared to get the occasional point penalty or warning.

    Sure the umpire's action has some effect on the game, but then again, so does Wan Wah's morally questionable behaviour. Anyway, he should be professional enough to keep focused and win the 2nd set. It's his own and only his own fault that he prefers to become a cry-baby about it instead. Had he been more professional in that situation and they would have won in 2 sets. In that case nobody would have even thought about the umpire's decision.
     
  7. tama-aki

    tama-aki Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2003
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Grad student
    Location:
    Leiden, Netherlands
    Oh how I wish I were back in Asia!

    Don't know why there's no such coverage here in Canada despite so many badminton fans and players in this world's largest country :rolleyes: . I kept on sending complaints to Singapore Cable TV who also has lack of badminton coverage. I remember they once reschedule the live finals of All England for.......American Dart Competition. WHO on earth will watch that in Asia?

    In Indonesia, free-to-air channels will compete harshly to get the licence for broadcasting badminton tournament. My friend's family will sit together--complete with percussions and trumpet--to cheer our players.....from the glass screen. Can't quite imagine that, must be hard to be their neighbors. :D

    Anyhoo, I can't remember quite clearly when it was, but I don't think it's the first time Chong/Lee got a yellow card or point deduction (need your help here guys). And yes it's pretty amazing that players like them would have been so much influenced by such factor.

    Well, it's really hard to choose anyway, I like both teams and couldn't decide which one for the champion, but I was hoping it would be our "neighbour" Malaysia. I like how Jens/Martin play and couldn't be happier they won--despite beating our Flandy/Eng in the semi.

    When I first saw Jens (then pairing Jesper Larsen), it's caught to my attention how this tall 'creature' loves to play on the net and his shorter partner do all the smashing job. Wonder if Jesper often hit the bird to his head instead for obstructing it :D

    Gade-Lin Dan? I would never doubt it must have been Gade's physique. But for someone who's coming back from a knee injury, Gade's still able to show he was a king once. The Eddy Chong Player of the Year adds one more winning record against Taufik to 5-1. Something that shows that he is still a threat. I think he's amazing.

    Gao Ling/Huang Sui? NO COMMENT!!!!!! But I surely am going to sue the organiser for reducing the ticket value--had I bought it and watched it in the arena :D
    BTW, did anybody watch Yang/Zhang's easy win against Wei/Zhao in the semi. Were they injured?

    Ra-Kim's 12 consecutive title, I LOVE THEM!

    No one can ruin Ruina, SOME DAY Mia will rule the ladies' singles......SOME DAY. :D
     
  8. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    963
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Accountant / Coach
    Location:
    uk
    The umpire's decision to award the point was unfair. Clearly as he looked up the Dane had already gone into his service and the receiver held up his hand and made no attempt to return the shot.

    Given the pressure situation the Malaysian reaction was reasonable and the yellow card unfair. Just as you can say that the Malaysian tried to slow down the server the Danes tried to serve before the reiver was ready, at the end of the day the point should be replayed when both are ready.

    Now having said all that we again see a Malaysian pair who play well enough to win a big title and yet whose attitude and team spirit were found lacking in the final analysis. In a few months we will remember the winner, not the controversy.

    Great players overcome problems, fair or unfair.
     
  9. leowjc

    leowjc Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    JB, Malaysia.
    dlp has the point...
     
  10. CarlK

    CarlK New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    COACH
    Location:
    CHESTER, ENGLAND
    I can't help laughing at the umpire. She total killed the game by not having the slightest idea about the rules. She can't be from UK. Get out of here! Didn't she know that's the right of the player to get the tourney umpire in situation like that? LOL :D .
    So is Runner23 who is just purposely biased and ignorant about the rules.

    At the end of the day, the Malaysia should have just got on with it. They are just not strong enough mentally.

    Oh, well we r only human!
     
  11. Runner23

    Runner23 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Stock Analyst
    Location:
    Orange County, USA
    I agree that Lee Wan Wah was not ready and he signalled it. But you're not allowed to do that almost every time someone is serving to you. He was being giving the yellow card and point penalty because he did so repeatedly, not just because of that one time.
     
  12. leowjc

    leowjc Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    JB, Malaysia.
    he did that for 3 times, 3 times is still acceptable right? The penalty was too heavy... As the spectator, I was so angry at that moment. Runner32 kept on saying that Lee is not strong enough mentally, what if you are at his place? Like CarlK said, we're only human...
     
  13. Runner23

    Runner23 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Stock Analyst
    Location:
    Orange County, USA
    Being a professional player myself, who on occasion participates in minor international tournaments, I do not appreciate being told that I am ignorant of the rules.
    I never said anything about the right to call in the tournament umpire!!!! I am merely trying to say that the judge is right not to let a player get away with trying to disrupt the opponent's rhythm like that.
     
  14. Syaoran_Style

    Syaoran_Style Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,264
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Paris
    Oh My God!!!!

    272 replies and 4365 views this is my record!!! i will organize a party for this
    come on everybodyy come on to the Syaoran's partyy!!!!!
    LoooL =))))
     
  15. CarlK

    CarlK New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    COACH
    Location:
    CHESTER, ENGLAND
    Hey, guys! Don't get too fired up.

    I thought Lee got the yellow card because he referred the umpire's decision to a tourney umpire. She got all red faced and pulled out the yellow card, must be watching too much footies like me. Hahaha...I was hoping she pulled the red too.
     
  16. ants

    ants Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    13,156
    Likes Received:
    24
    Occupation:
    Entrepreneur , Modern Nomad
    Location:
    Malaysian Citizen of the World
    Its so dissapointing to see them lose... they themself are to blame. Umpire problem is just a factor.. they are professionals and they should know how to overcome these kind of problems.
     
  17. da ding

    da ding Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2003
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    tut tut tut

    wonder what happened this time? Maybe yang wei sprained her eyelashes or maybe zhang jiewen had her leg broken by a dancing midget hippo from the planet zog?!

    This is not a good thing for badminton as a sport!
     
  18. kwun

    kwun Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    40,167
    Likes Received:
    1,166
    Occupation:
    BC Janitor
    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA, USA
    the reports says Zhang Jiewen has a hamstring injury..
     
  19. tama-aki

    tama-aki Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2003
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Grad student
    Location:
    Leiden, Netherlands
    They may be cursed or something, seems that the injury only happens in the final. Poor them!
     
  20. sunzhi

    sunzhi Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Singapore/Indonesia
    in the match btw peter and lin dan, 6 services of lin dan wr let n repeated as peter wsnt ready, and each repeated serve saw peter winning n regaining possession... i think its part of the game as long as you indicated you aint ready before the service made...
     

Share This Page