Good coaching or not?

2

2cents

Regular Member
Congrats to KKK/TBH and ZB/GL for their first all England title. They are new formed pairs, and soon became the best in the world, ZB/GL are even invincible.

But if you say that's all because good coaching, and credit Rexy and LYB for that. I then disagree.

They are good just because they are good themselves. The truth is that coaching was bad because the coaches and managers had not realized that before. Both of the pairs teamed together because of accidents, not because of coaching.

When KKK's partner CCM's dad passed away, then TBH came up as a substitute, even though they lost in the final of Tokyo open (runner up was a pretty good results even for KKK/CCM), the coaches still wanted KKK playing with CCM instead of TBH. Maybe there are political reasons, but the final decision was not even better than a nobrainer. Although Rexy wanted KKK play with TBH, this was still not good coaching, it was just a reasonable thing any one would do.

Same thing applies to ZB/GL too. ZB had been in the national team for 5 years. Even before the Asian game, LYB claimed that the only pair will go to Olympics 2008 were Gao Ling with Zhang Jun, and GL/ZJ pair is unchangeable. Then another accident happened, Zhang Jun wanted to have his wedding during the Asian Game (I think that's one reason China does not that care about Asian Games), then Zheng Bo went to Asian game as a substitute, exactly like TBH, a substitute in the case of emergence. Then the new pair ZB/GL is unbeatable so far. If the coaching were good, they should finding out that before the accidents.

So, in this sense, both coachings were bad coachings, I mean bad because they were not any better than any ordinary people's thinking and doing. I say bad because the good resutls resulted from accidents, not from coaching. And when accident proved their coaching's wrong (in Rexy case not in China's case), they still not wanted the pair which delivering better results.
 
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wow is that really the reason why ZB got paired up with GL? Not because ZJ has lost form and it's time to replace the old goat with a fitter younger one??
And I think I'm starting to develop a crush on GL and ZYW!
 
I disagree with your point here and want to emphasize again that Rexy is the best coach I've ever seen. I'm not sure about LYB due to his "improper" conduct during the match between Lin Dan and LCW.
Although the partnership of KKK and TBH were formed accidentally, I would say that we will only know the partnership could work well after some experiments in real games. It's not easy for every coach to know upfront which partnership can win the titles. However, a good coach should be the one who can always motivate the players and tuitor them on the pitch to win the game.
 
No, ZJ's form have drop since the new scoring system started, they didint perform well......that why he was dropped and substituted by ZB....this is was i observed......
 
I think your claim is not true.

First, as far as I can remember, Rexy had claimed that KKK & TBH is the "real shot" for 2012 Olympics and he planned to form KKK/TBH after KKK/CCM have played 2008 (CCM will retire after that). Such claims are made long before the 2006 WC accident. So Rexy did see the great potential of this pair long before any "ordinary man" could. The accident just made him change his time table a bit.

Second, if Zhang/Gao is still in good form and has no sign of being broken up, Zhang Jun, being not Taufik, will never choose to wed during Asian Games. So you have simply reversed the cause and the effect.

Finally, Rexy is the coach coaching Mas MD, but LYB is NOT the coach coaching Chinese XD, it is Chen Xingdong who has been coaching XD all along and is coaching MD and XD now.

2cents said:
Congrats to KKK/TBH and ZB/GL for their first all England title. They are new formed pairs, and soon became the best in the world, ZB/GL are even invincible.

But if you say that's all because good coaching, and credit Rexy and LYB for that. I then disagree.

They are good just because they are good themselves. The truth is that coaching was bad because the coaches and managers had not realized that before. Both of the pairs teamed together because of accidents, not because of coaching.

When KKK's partner CCM's dad passed away, then TBH came up as a substitute, even though they lost in the final of Tokyo open (runner up was a pretty good results even for KKK/CCM), the coaches still wanted KKK playing with CCM instead of TBH. Maybe there are political reasons, but the final decision was not even better than a nobrainer. Although Rexy wanted KKK play with TBH, this was still not good coaching, it was just a reasonable thing any one would do.

Same thing applies to ZB/GL too. ZB had been in the national team for 5 years. Even before the Asian game, LYB claimed that the only pair will go to Olympics 2008 were Gao Ling with Zhang Jun, and GL/ZJ pair is unchangeable. Then another accident happened, Zhang Jun wanted to have his wedding during the Asian Game (I think that's one reason China does not that care about Asian Games), then Zheng Bo went to Asian game as a substitute, exactly like TBH, a substitute in the case of emergence. Then the new pair ZB/GL is unbeatable so far. If the coaching were good, they should finding out that before the accidents.

So, in this sense, both coachings were bad coachings, I mean bad because they were not any better than any ordinary people's thinking and doing. I say bad because the good resutls resulted from accidents, not from coaching. And when accident proved their coaching's wrong (in Rexy case not in China's case), they still not wanted the pair which delivering better results.
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I agree with the point on Rexy. Without Rexy, Malaysian MD will not have achieved the incredible feat of Asian Games gold and an All-England title!

As much as I envy the achievement of KKK/TBH, kudos really to Rexy and both players. They have worked hard as a team and u can see how delighted Rexy were of his boys in charge. The concern on his face during the closing set of the second set was apparent to us who were watching the match. Both young players also looked up to Rexy and I fear that this young pair is now set to dominate the MD field...with Rexy behind them.
 
KKK/TBH + Rexy = A Perfect Combination.....

2cents, i agreed with u on the finding of KKK/TBH part. It's an accident. But pairing them up is one story, KKK/TBH for sure will not be this GOOD or have excelled in MD without the guidance of Rexy.

During past few tournaments, Rexy acted as a co-driver in a rally race as if KKK/TBH were the rally racer, predicting sharp corners ahead for them or when they should go to their top speed during every match......Without Rexy, they would have not predicted the things that were coming ahead. Thus the lost at KO when Rext werent there as a co-driver for KKK/TBH.

I love you Rexy but I'm not gay.....

KKK/TBH + Rexy = A Perfect Combination.....
 
Zhang Jun was dropped because the pair didn't perform well in the new scoring system. So he wasn't in the team to the Asian games. That's why he hold his wedding during AG.
 
look what happened during the all england final.. on both sets, the msian pair was trailing behind during the break at 11.. on both occasions, the chinese pair was leading.. during the break, only God knows what rexy spoke to motivate them, and on both sets, the msian pair managed to gain consecutive points after the break.. is there such a coincidence??

also, during matches, kkk/tbh would definately turn back looking at rexy seeking for motivation and advice.. in fact, during the final.. the msian supporters knew how crucial rexy played a part in the match tat they shouted "rexy boleh" numerous times.. lol..
 
I hope BAM didnt screw up the partnering with Rexy again this time, get a 20yrs contract!!! coz we supporters of MAS wont forgive BAM for that.......
 
It's a mixture of both. A good coach is important, not just tactical, but also mental (I think Rexy inspired mental strength in KKK/TBH), but the players must have also a certain quality to start with.
 
I'm proud that KKK/TBH made an impact in the local and international badminton scene. But you have to remember that Msia Badminton is not all about KKK/TBH. Same like Taufik with Indonesia. We also have other good doubles players. And they need our support too.. But i do agree that Rexy is a great coach. Not because of his ability to target potential in KKK/TBH.. but at the same time his way of coaching and conducting himself with the players as a Coach/Friend and Mentor. Personally, i think other Msian coaches should learn from Rexy's way of coaching. But at the same time , no one is Perfect, even Rexy. I'm sure he agree with this. One must keep humble and at the same time give 110% in whatever he does.
 
For those think Rexy is so important, please think again.

Why before the formation of KKK/TBH, Mas always ended with nothing in men's doubles? If he's so important, why he cannot inspire LWH/CTF who were even better before?

It's just because of the players themselves. If there are some roles for the coaching, it will definitely less than 50%. The biggest difference a coach can make is to find the right persons and pairs. That's what I was talking about they did not do well. The training and inspiring are also important, but come after picking up the right pair.
 
Rexy is important is some way.. you have to give him the credits he deserved. But i also agree with you that no all coach can influence their players. Its the players themselves who is willing to change/adapt and be open minded to constructive criticiscm that can make things change. Coaches is there to GUIDE them.. the rest is really up to the players.
 
I remember in AG 2006,rexy said he already gave 200% to the player but they failed to listen what he tought.He even treathen to quit.To me it's like a ship and captain.Imagine if there is no captain on the ship while travelling to the sea.What would happen to the ship.That importancy of Rexy.If u don't find a captain how could the ship face the sea.No doubt the player had show their power and amazing skill but there also Rexy who help them to stay on the ground and tighten their skill and mentality.Just my 2cent.;)
 
2cents said:
For those think Rexy is so important, please think again.

Why before the formation of KKK/TBH, Mas always ended with nothing in men's doubles? If he's so important, why he cannot inspire LWH/CTF who were even better before?

It's just because of the players themselves. If there are some roles for the coaching, it will definitely less than 50%. The biggest difference a coach can make is to find the right persons and pairs. That's what I was talking about they did not do well. The training and inspiring are also important, but come after picking up the right pair.
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TBH/KKK is a new combination by Rexy, like a young bamboo, you can bend which way you want and they will adjust. CTF/LWW is old dogs, you can teach old dog new tricks and old habits are hard to turn back, therefore Rexy could not help, better pick the telephone and call Jesus for help, that may works...hahaha! LOL!!!:D :D :D
 
badMania said:
I agree with the point on Rexy. Without Rexy, Malaysian MD will not have achieved the incredible feat of Asian Games gold and an All-England title!

As much as I envy the achievement of KKK/TBH, kudos really to Rexy and both players. They have worked hard as a team and u can see how delighted Rexy were of his boys in charge. The concern on his face during the closing set of the second set was apparent to us who were watching the match. Both young players also looked up to Rexy and I fear that this young pair is now set to dominate the MD field...with Rexy behind them.
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Disagree with your belief that KKK/TBH are set to dominate the MDs. No way. They got lucky that KOR MD battery dried up by QF. TKH (KOR coach) forgot his energy mathematics. If he wants his boys to win and yet play two events (XD as well), then they should forget about a warm up tournament. The GO gave them a title but cost them the AE shot.
I still believe KOR MD has an edge over MAS MD . KKK will not win the MD if he also works for the XD. I hope he can prove me wrong in the SWO this week.
 
Definately disagree. Rexy is an integral part of MAS Mens doubles achievements as much as KKK/TBH. KKK/CCM were a good pairing under Rexy's helm, it just took time to develop KKK into a more knowledgable player. I agree that KKK/TBH are amazing in their own right, but I say that Rexy is the reason they are what they are today.
 
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2cents said:
For those think Rexy is so important, please think again.

Why before the formation of KKK/TBH, Mas always ended with nothing in men's doubles? If he's so important, why he cannot inspire LWH/CTF who were even better before?

It's just because of the players themselves. If there are some roles for the coaching, it will definitely less than 50%. The biggest difference a coach can make is to find the right persons and pairs. That's what I was talking about they did not do well. The training and inspiring are also important, but come after picking up the right pair.
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Your thinking is way too egoistic. Maybe you have never met a coach like Rexy and therefore cast all coaches aside down the drain. If coaches play such an insignificant role as you said as to only find the right partnership, then why need coaches at all for singles? Might as well just let the players train themselves and play with themselves allowing their natural talent to help them improve.

I have been coached by professional coaches and I have been coaching teenagers at a competitive level too and I can say for sure that coaches play a significant role in helping out their players. The thing about players is that when they play, they don't always pick up on the little stuff that they can exploit. Worse still, the stuff that they do pick up don't always register into their brain as experience. This is where coaches come into play, enlightening their players on what has been happening. What they've been doing wrong, what they could've done instead of what they did, what they can further exploit that they didn't exploit enough, etc2. You see, sometimes, players are so tired after training that they don't have the energy left to think much about what happened, usually they just want to rest. And it is only understandable that they do so, which is why we have coaches to help them think about what went on and enlighten them on what has been happening.

You think Rexy isn't a good coach? Look at the English Mixed Doubles right now. They were once one of the best an winning the Olympics Gold. Then the following all england in 2006, Rexy commented that they have the skills to win the game, but was afraid that they don't have the proper physical levels to execute them. When I heard this, and saw Nathan's play, as a coach I immediately knew that Nathan is not one of those guys who can self motivate himself to do the required physical training that he needs to do to be good. But when Rexy was there, Rexy made a difference enough to make him do enough physical training so that he becomes enabled to perform the high level techniques required of him to win a game. How did Rexy do it? Maybe you should go and watch Nathan and Rexy's training video clip at youtube. As a coach, Rexy is my ultimate inspiration, I desire and am working on being a coach like him.
 
Recall that KKK & TBH paired up for the first time during TC finals in last May. Although it was because MAS team wanted to seize the opportunity of facing a weak opponent to experiment a new combination, this probably indicated that the BAM did have the idea of eventually pairing them up in mind way before the so-called accidental pairing up at JO. Had Rexy already joined MAS team during last May?

Still, I strongly agree that Rexy was an important factor behind the duo's achievement. Recall that TBH stumbled when Rexy was absent from KO'07 SF, which means that Rexy's role wasn't just telling them the DO's and DON'Ts in the middle of every game, but had also given them (especially the inexperienced guy) the psychological strength to fight fearlessly. In this sense, the combination has yet to prove their come of age - not until they could win a title of a prestiguous or SS event without Rexy's presence in the final.
 
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