Good coaching or not?

Boo....boo

2cents said:
Congrats to KKK/TBH and ZB/GL for their first all England title. They are new formed pairs, and soon became the best in the world, ZB/GL are even invincible.

But if you say that's all because good coaching, and credit Rexy and LYB for that. I then disagree.

They are good just because they are good themselves. The truth is that coaching was bad because the coaches and managers had not realized that before. Both of the pairs teamed together because of accidents, not because of coaching.

When KKK's partner CCM's dad passed away, then TBH came up as a substitute, even though they lost in the final of Tokyo open (runner up was a pretty good results even for KKK/CCM), the coaches still wanted KKK playing with CCM instead of TBH. Maybe there are political reasons, but the final decision was not even better than a nobrainer. Although Rexy wanted KKK play with TBH, this was still not good coaching, it was just a reasonable thing any one would do.

Same thing applies to ZB/GL too. ZB had been in the national team for 5 years. Even before the Asian game, LYB claimed that the only pair will go to Olympics 2008 were Gao Ling with Zhang Jun, and GL/ZJ pair is unchangeable. Then another accident happened, Zhang Jun wanted to have his wedding during the Asian Game (I think that's one reason China does not that care about Asian Games), then Zheng Bo went to Asian game as a substitute, exactly like TBH, a substitute in the case of emergence. Then the new pair ZB/GL is unbeatable so far. If the coaching were good, they should finding out that before the accidents.

So, in this sense, both coachings were bad coachings, I mean bad because they were not any better than any ordinary people's thinking and doing. I say bad because the good resutls resulted from accidents, not from coaching. And when accident proved their coaching's wrong (in Rexy case not in China's case), they still not wanted the pair which delivering better results.
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This forum is getting nowhere....yucks terrible posts:D The chinese must be laughing their axxx off man:p
 
Rexy Dreams Of Olympics Success

From Jaiarajo Letchumanan

BIRMINGHAM, March 13 (Bernama) -- The year 2005 marked a very significant beginning to Malaysian badminton, especially for the men's doubles, with the arrival of Indonesian coach Rexy Mainaky.

The former Indonesian doubles ace who together with partner Ricky Subagja won every title that was available during their time -- world championship, All- England and Thomas Cup -- to name a few, was appointed national doubles coach.

Two years on, he had plotted the success of two youngsters who become the most exciting doubles pair in world badminton.

Koo Kien Keat and Tan Boon Heong who clinched the All-England men's doubles title two days ago after beating world number one seeds Cai Yun/Fu Haifeng of China, were quick to pay tribute to their coach for his tireless efforts, contributions and guidance.

"He has been a key factor in our success. We've learnt many new tactics and skills from him and so are the new players who have come through the ranks. He also guides us during games, shouting quick instructions when we make mistakes or when there is a change in tactics by our opponents.

"For example, during the final, the Chinese pair switched tactics during the second game and Rexy was quick to observe and gave us instructions to vary the game," said Kien Keat.

Under his guidance, the duo shot to fame within a span of five months, winning the Asian Games men's doubles gold after 36 years and now the All- England men's doubles gold after 25 years.

"Our goal now is to win the World Championships that will be hosted by Malaysia later this year and the ultimate aim is to win the gold at the 2008 Beijing Olympics," said Kien Keat.

Rexy, who feels very much at home and who has become more than just a coach to the players, said the best thing about the players was that there are many young players coming through the ranks and they are willing to learn.

Besides the Kien Keat-Boon Heong pair, there are three other young pairs along with the Choong Tan Fook-Lee Wan Wah veteran pair.

Among the young pairs under Rexy's charge are Mohd Fairuzizuan Mohd Tazari/ Lin Woon Fui, Mohd Zakry Abdul Latif/Gan Teik Chai and Ong Soon Hock/Tan Bin Shen.

"Preparing the players entails a number of aspects like tactics, skills, endurance, sports science and of course mental. As a coach, I take charge of the first three and we have sports science experts and mental trainers from the National Sports Council.

"In a match, mental strength is very important as when the players are on court, 40 per cent is skill and 60 per cent mental. If a good player doesn't have the mental strength to absorb the pressure from his opponent, he or she will most likely lose the match.

"When preparing players mentally, players need to be assessed individually and according to their characters because different players have different characteristics.

"Some may be soft while others can be tough. Some can take pressure while others tend to buckle," Rexy told Bernama in an exclusive interview here.

He also said grooming players to become champions cannot happen overnight.

"Time will be an essence and patience is a key factor. My dream is to see players whom I coach emulate my success or go a step further than what I've achieved as a player," he added.

>>so who said coach is not important:rolleyes:
 
I guess when it comes to coaching, apart from able to produce outstanding results, one have to look at the practical aspect of it. If the contracts are not renewed or quality is not commensurated monetarily, any coach should leave. Its just a way to survive, being practical. Like, you can't expect Li Mao who was already unhappy of the lagging contract incident stay on when he has other offers. He SHOULD leave, and since he is a foreigner, it was nice of him to leave quietly to avoid embarrasment to BAM by voicing his grievances. I'm sure he has lots to say.

I certainly hope BAM will extend Rexy's contract on time, as he is one of the outstanding coaches who has shown to produce results.

A lot of Indonesians like staying in Malaysia, its like a much better quality of live, best of all we speak and understand their languange.

Can you imagine Li Yong Bo coaching the Malaysian team?????!!!
 
wow, a hot topic.
Not reading all the posts yet to make my comments, i think success in life and any relationship involve some luck and some good decison making.
Saying good coaching by rexy alone is wrong since kkk and tbh went thru many coaches before reaching national level. Those earlier coaches should get credits too since all the basic to advance badminton were learnt from them. If i put a noob under rexy, chances are the noob will achieve B+ level at best, on average statistically speaking. U have to be super good before u even get coached by rexy. That said, kkk + tbh was a chance meet which i tend to agree but so is meeting rexy. England coulda extend rexy contract and rexy would never be under BAM possession when kkk meet tbh. As in life, u persue opportunities and one bound to pan out. Is this luck or good planning, both i say.

kkk+tbn = experimental luck
kkk&tbn + rexy= timing luck.
li mao leaving = bad luck LOL
KOR gets li mao = good luck
lee HI leave team = bad luck
TH wins 06 AG = good luck (hehe)
LD lost 06 AG = bad luck
TH bet AE title and lost fight with pbsi = bad luck LOL
LD won 07 AE = good luck (ie. no TH)

is there a chinese proverb that says 'as one chance slip away, another new one would drop by';)
 
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ixory said:
hay yuqiu i have some news 4 u..

Badminton: ‘I’m staying on’

13 Mar 2007
K.M. Boopathy


REXY Mainaky has committed his future to Malaysia but in the same breath, challenged his senior pairs to prove that Malaysian doubles is more than just about newly crowned All England champions Koo Kien Keat and Tan Boon Heong.

.....

Thanks you ixory. I can breath easy now. Rexy should stay because Mal is such a lovely country. No tsunamis, no earthquakes, no terrorism, good foods, friendly people, lovely weather and we speak the same language. :) :) :)
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IMO, it takes both...and all the good reasons then...

ixory said:
"He has been a key factor in our success. We've learnt many new tactics and skills from him and so are the new players who have come through the ranks. He also guides us during games, shouting quick instructions when we make mistakes or when there is a change in tactics by our opponents".
For example, during the final, the Chinese pair switched tactics during the second game and Rexy was quick to observe and gave us instructions to vary the game," said Kien Keat.
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..(just quipping these portions from the article) and this shows, esp. how important Rexy is/was to their success..The thing i want to see now is, how will the 2 young talents find their success when Rexy is not there, physically, by their sides during their match(es)..:confused: ;)
yuqiu said:
Thanks you ixory. I can breath easy now. Rexy should stay because Mal is such a lovely country. No tsunamis, no earthquakes, no terrorism, good foods, friendly people, lovely weather and we speak the same language. :) :) :)
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OFF TOPIC:..to come and visit Malaysia this coming August for the World Championships..hehe;):D:cool:..Btw, have you signed up for the BC get-together in this thread: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40431&page=4 ??..:cool:
 
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I don't think that's crucial -- try to let KKK/TBH play without Rexy being there. Although they rely on Rexy a lot currently, the relation seems healthy. Rexy is not suffocating them by endless instructions, and Koo/Tan are not treating themselves as morons and just waiting for Rexy's words.

There is a danger lying in leaving them on their own pre-maturely, they may lose terribly and lose confidence of themselves. So Rexy must be very careful and choose the right timing and the right tournament to "test" and more importantly, develop their independence.

The issue (how much and what kind of help should a mentor give his student) is very subtle (the goal is to bring the student to his limit), and seems to me Rexy is doing very well so far.

ctjcad said:
..(just quipping these portions from the article) and this shows, esp. how important Rexy is/was to their success..The thing i want to see now is, how will the 2 young talents find their success when Rexy is not there, physically, by their sides during their match(es)..:confused: ;)

OFF TOPIC:..to come and visit Malaysia this coming August for the World Championships..hehe;):D:cool:..Btw, have you signed up for the BC get-together in this thread: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40431&page=4 ??..:cool:
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Understandable...

ye333 said:
I don't think that's crucial -- try to let KKK/TBH play without Rexy being there. Although they rely on Rexy a lot currently, the relation seems healthy. Rexy is not suffocating them by endless instructions, and Koo/Tan are not treating themselves as morons and just waiting for Rexy's words.

There is a danger lying in leaving them on their own pre-maturely, they may lose terribly and lose confidence of themselves. So Rexy must be very careful and choose the right timing and the right tournament to "test" and more importantly, develop their independence.

The issue (how much and what kind of help should a mentor give his student) is very subtle (the goal is to bring the student to his limit), and seems to me Rexy is doing very well so far.
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..and yes, it's quite true that both of them are still relatively young & developing very well..Thus the careful and close guidance of Rexy is what's needed..
But i still would like to see how both of them handle situations in which Rexy is not there, by their sides..;) :cool:
 
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ctjcad said:
..and yes, it's quite true that both of them are still relatively young & developing very well..Thus the careful and close guidance of Rexy is what's needed..
But i still would like to see how both of them handle situations in which Rexy is not there, by their sides..;) :cool:
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If I were Rexy, I would probably very slowly cut down on the amount of advices I am giving them or perhaps holding it off until crucial points to allow the players to think for themselves. But ofcourse before doing so, I would inform the players of what I will be doing and the purpose of doing so :) Finally, would be when they can win consistently without much advice, then I would push them to totally think for themselves.
 
Iwan said:
Your thinking is way too egoistic. Maybe you have never met a coach like Rexy and therefore cast all coaches aside down the drain. If coaches play such an insignificant role as you said as to only find the right partnership, then why need coaches at all for singles? Might as well just let the players train themselves and play with themselves allowing their natural talent to help them improve.

I have been coached by professional coaches and I have been coaching teenagers at a competitive level too and I can say for sure that coaches play a significant role in helping out their players. The thing about players is that when they play, they don't always pick up on the little stuff that they can exploit. Worse still, the stuff that they do pick up don't always register into their brain as experience. This is where coaches come into play, enlightening their players on what has been happening. What they've been doing wrong, what they could've done instead of what they did, what they can further exploit that they didn't exploit enough, etc2. You see, sometimes, players are so tired after training that they don't have the energy left to think much about what happened, usually they just want to rest. And it is only understandable that they do so, which is why we have coaches to help them think about what went on and enlighten them on what has been happening.

You think Rexy isn't a good coach? Look at the English Mixed Doubles right now. They were once one of the best an winning the Olympics Gold. Then the following all england in 2006, Rexy commented that they have the skills to win the game, but was afraid that they don't have the proper physical levels to execute them. When I heard this, and saw Nathan's play, as a coach I immediately knew that Nathan is not one of those guys who can self motivate himself to do the required physical training that he needs to do to be good. But when Rexy was there, Rexy made a difference enough to make him do enough physical training so that he becomes enabled to perform the high level techniques required of him to win a game. How did Rexy do it? Maybe you should go and watch Nathan and Rexy's training video clip at youtube. As a coach, Rexy is my ultimate inspiration, I desire and am working on being a coach like him.
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May I have the link pls? thanks a lot..I'd love to see that. I've met Rexy before with his wife and daughter..He was really humble..
 
Anyway , what do you ppl think of Ong Soon Hock n his partner? I think they are rising stars..not yet but going to be if they stop playing fancy shots n overconfidence go over their head!
 
2cents said:
For those think Rexy is so important, please think again.

Why before the formation of KKK/TBH, Mas always ended with nothing in men's doubles? If he's so important, why he cannot inspire LWH/CTF who were even better before?

It's just because of the players themselves. If there are some roles for the coaching, it will definitely less than 50%. The biggest difference a coach can make is to find the right persons and pairs. That's what I was talking about they did not do well. The training and inspiring are also important, but come after picking up the right pair.
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This isn't entirely accurate as to have a successful program it's more than talented players. Champions don't just spontaneously come into being. Even w/ the right talents you have to support the mental development and training of the players. This is an area of strength of Rexy. As someone else made the point w/ all the talented players in the Malaysian system why no champions for 25 yrs! Also in interviews Rexy commented that the mental approach was lacking. This is not something technique and talented shot making will develop or improve. It's about developing a mental approach in the players to push themselves beyond their limits and not accept defeat in training or competition. That is one of the true values of competent coaching. There are many parallels in other sports, Johan Cruyff as coach of Barcelona soccer/footbal club, NBA Detroit Piston, etc ....

Selection wise it is more complex than you articulated and again if it was so easy why wasn't it done before. I see that 1) either the coach doesn't have the ability to see the potential or 2) he doesn't have the guts or influence to challenge the political system. In both areas Rexy has suprassed all the other coaches in the last 25 yrs in Malaysia. From his interview he was trained under philosophy that the doubles squad will play w/ different partners w/ money on the line to add that competive edge. This would also allow the coach to test out pairs in a real competitive environment. I think his other advantage is that he is mentally strong and can handle the pressure that comes w/ taking risks. More importantly I believe he is willing to walk away if the players don't meet their end of the bargain. This promotes accoutability and leads to results.

I would like to see where Rexy takes the Malaysian doubles and yes we should temper our expectations as this is just the first real success. The real challenge begins now to make winning a habit and dealing w/ all the distractions. This is the real test of the coach's skills and the mentality of the players.

Derek
 
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