how should we promote badminton?

[Birdwood]

..in the earlier days prior to the SGVBC and OCBC opening (i believe both opened their doors roughly in the mid 90s, so it hasn't been too long), the only available baddy facilities are public school gyms (high schools, colleges, Junior colleges or public parks' multi purpose gyms). I believe it's the same story up north, in NorCal, as they also used to borrow public gyms prior to the recent explosion of FT baddy clubs.

The gym type system is the proven route to get baddy started from scratch. Even today, we see these type facilities everywhere, charging $2-5 to play 2-6 hrs baddy on a given day. Some may get too crowded so more become available, eventually leads to dedicated ones, like SGVBC. A lot baddy players would prefer to play $7/day+evening, rather $5/a few hours, but not many have the deep pocket for a baddy investment. If anyone can do it, it would make a lot ppl happy

 

[ctjcad]

^^Fee to play is one thing..^^

..and i would say quite a big part of it...But another factor is the level or type of challenges/competitions one will get, say, in an open/public gym in comparison to a full-time baddy club. If there are available baddy clubs, i'm sure more competitive/serious/active players will probably prefer to play there.
But yeah, i guess the saying is probably true "the more the merrier"..

 

[enthusiast]

Thanks for the info, Birdwood. The proposed fee was $14-18/hr/court. That still seems high to me, esp. if you like to play singles. The difficulty is getting enough people together to reserve the court. And you don't have the option of just "dropping in". That's why I say $7-8/person/day sounds like a real bargain.

 

[enthusiast]

I realize I got off the thread a bit when talking about building courts for profit rather than promoting the popularity of the sport. Courts for profit still indirectly promote the sport, I guess, by reflecting the local demand for dedicated facilities and offering facilities for scholastic and team events. As a means of popularizing the sport, though, I think expensive private courts do not cater to the general public, but rather to those players who already have some proficiency with the game. They then become like the racquetball courts that were (are?) so popular years ago.

I think a big negative of badminton is that it takes a while to get the skills whereby more people will play with you. Public courts are usually inclusive, but I'm sure those who prefer to play with those around their own level (who wouldn't, if you are shelling out money to play) would opt for the private, badminton-nly courts. The exclusivity and expense of private courts don't do much to encourage new members who are not already familiar with the sport.

Sure, lessons are offered at the private clubs, but it would take real interest for a person to pay for lessons in a sport that is still viewed by the public as a backyard sport.

In short, I guess I did get off the point when I discussed private court fees. as private courts seem to be neutral on popularization of the sport.

 

[Birdwood]

...
As a means of popularizing the sport, though, I think expensive private courts do not cater to the general public, but rather to those players who already have some proficiency with the game. They then become like the racquetball courts that were (are?) so popular years ago.

I think a big negative of badminton is that it takes a while to get the skills whereby more people will play with you. Public courts are usually inclusive, but I'm sure those who prefer to play with those around their own level (who wouldn't, if you are shelling out money to play) would opt for the private, badminton-nly courts. The exclusivity and expense of private courts don't do much to encourage new members who are not already familiar with the sport.

Sure, lessons are offered at the private clubs, but it would take real interest for a person to pay for lessons in a sport that is still viewed by the public as a backyard sport.
...

You might assume something wrong here. Private court should not be exclusive, otherwise it's looking for failure. Why can't a private club cater to the general public (beginners)? Just assign the courts according to the proportions of player groups, maybe 2 courts for beginners, 3 for intermediate, and 2 for advanced levels (add a couple of courts for mixed leveled play as some may wish to play that way). Then ppl are playing with others at their own levels. If someone is playing above his/her assigned court level, they can always move up to next level. This would encourage those who want to take class, learn, and improve to become more proficient. Not everyone comes to play so seriously. I'd bet many just simply want to have fun and some exercise.

Ppl will pay for baddy lessons, just like they pay for tennis lessons, especially kids, as soon as parents realize baddy can offer better return for their investment.

 

[enthusiast]

When I said "exclusive", I meant only in the sense of cost. A lot of people can't afford, or are reluctant to pay the $40-60/mo it takes to play at private venues; hence the overcrowding at public multi-purpose courts. Personally I love courts built esp. for badminton, just because I cannot see well enough to play anywhere else. It just so happens that all such courts are "private" (It'll be a long time before our cities shell out money for single -sport courts.

Having courts alloted for different levels is a good idea when there are enough courts, but it might also be difficult to set courts aside when it is pay-by-the hour. I have no objection to playing people with less experience and do all the time. It's just that IF I had only one or two hours (which I am paying dearly for), I would have more fun and get more of a workout playing with others of a similar level. That's just natural and I don't think saying that makes me a snob or elitist.

Maybe it's reserving the courts and the pay-by-HOUR format that I am uncomfortable with because it would NOT encourage drop-ins and mingling of strangers. You'd better believe that those who reserve these courts already come with a partner or a group. The assignment of courts by level of play would be much more possible at the pay-by-the-DAY courts that you described. That is why I say that,in regards to the promoting of badminton to the public, private courts are mostly neutral, although they do help in reducing the strain on public facilities.

 

[Birdwood]

If the price tag is set at $40-60/mo, there is nothing anyone can do. Maybe some in the general public (beginners) can afford it, they have the right to play as much as the elite players. If I was the owner, I’d go out my way to promote the club/sports and cater to the general public just like any fitness, tennis, and golf clubs do.

The club will have to choose between pay-by-hour/reservation and pay-by-the day/no reservation. In the former, there should be no need to worry who plays with whom since the court is rented out as a whole (otherwise how it works is beyond me). In the latter case, it would be a good idea to separate players by levels on a first come first serve basis. Either way, I don’t see much difference between a private club and gym type courts in promoting baddy beyond the price differential (to different income customers).

 

[Fan888]

So. Cal is lucky indeed and for many years. US Open, World Championship, world class coaches, etc. I am happy to say No. Cal is getting pretty lucky too nowadays.

With 8-9 dedicated facilities, availability is still "a bigger factor" Can you please explain this a little more. I'd think with the competition among all the facilities, the cost to play would be way down and anyone who wants to play can find an empty court anytime.

What I meant by lack of availability is for other areas, not any more for No. Cal. Until these gyms opened ~3 years ago, it was hard to find places to play. I used to go this place in Fremont that opened for 2 hours once a week. Some time the gym would be reserved for other event. It was frustrating and hard to get your buddies together.

Now, on a typical week night at Smash City, there are 6, 8, or even 10 people playing/waiting per court. I guess the players cycled probably twice per evening. I assume the crowd is about probably the same at other gyms. Where do all these players come from? Where did they play before? Are they new to the game? Or come out of the hiding now gyms are available?

You are right. Price might go down due to competition. I know my wallet would love that. But as a badminton fan, I don't mind the $7. That is still pretty affordable. I would much rather the gym owner make some money and I'll get to play. Now, badminton is very popular here and great for the sport.

 

[chris-ccc]

BC is a place for promoting Badminton !!!

...i think we might be referring to different point of views...
Of course, the talk & discussions @ BadmintonCentral.com would be and should be mostly centered around badminton. And BC is promoting badminton. No doubt.
...But would you, say, visit an NFL (American football) forum and stay there a while & be active if you don't have interest in the sport??..I certainly wouldn't want to visit, let alone stay a while, in a "How to Build a Space Station" forum if i didn't have any interest...

.
Hi ctjcad,

Yes, we might be referring to different viewpoints.

I was referring to "to be promoting Badminton" as "to be popularizing and/or to be contributing to the expansion and to the growth of Badminton, for both players and enthusiasts".

Many BCers are Badminton players. So if both of us are to round up a few playing BCers to have a few games, then I wouldn't consider us as promoting Badminton, since we haven't increased the population of Badminton players.

But if we could get someone new who has never played Badminton before to play with us, then I would say we have promoted Badminton.

And this is what/how I was referring to BC as a place for promoting Badminton.

(1) There are new members who have not played Badminton before. But if after reading our BC posts, go and try playing it, then BC has increased the population of Badminton players.

(2) Even if these new members do not go and try playing it, but go and try watching some tournaments, then BC has also increased the population of Badminton enthusiasts.

In both cases, BC has promoted Badminton.

We know there are many followers of Basketball, Football, Golf, Tennis, etc... but they are not players; they are just enthusiasts. Somehow, the Associations of those sports have managed to promote their sports as an entertainment.

Hope that I have made my viewpoint clearer now.

Cheers... chris@ccc

.

 

[jchan04]

make badminton as a team sport

We know there are many followers of Basketball, Football, Golf, Tennis, etc... but they are not players; they are just enthusiasts. Somehow, the Associations of those sports have managed to promote their sports as an entertainment.

You know what though? Team sports seems to be much more popular/entertaining than "individual" sports like tennis, squash, cycling, running and BADMINTON. It just means that when a team plays together the excitement is where the results will vary. For example, in soccer... theres always a possibility that a top rank team will be beaten by an underdog team. Whereas in badminton, the focus is on an individual. That's why another way to make badminton more entertaining is to have badminton leagues and make badminton as a team sport. I know in Europe they have leagues where clubs will play against each other and it's exciting to see those kinds of tournaments because the results will vary. I remember in the 2006 thomas cup, Denmark was playing against Indonesia. And even though two of Denmark's singles players lost their matches, it was the two doubles pair and singles who brought them to the finals with China. Stuff like that makes it entertaining.

Other than that, I think we needs badminton to be televised and promoted through the concepts of badminton being a physically demanding sport and fast reaction.

 

[ctjcad]

Yeah..

.
...
And this is what/how I was referring to BC as a place for promoting Badminton.

(1) There are new members who have not played Badminton before. But if after reading our BC posts, go and try playing it, then BC has increased the population of Badminton players.

(2) Even if these new members do not go and try playing it, but go and try watching some tournaments, then BC has also increased the population of Badminton enthusiasts.

In both cases, BC has promoted Badminton.

We know there are many followers of Basketball, Football, Golf, Tennis, etc... but they are not players; they are just enthusiasts. Somehow, the Associations of those sports have managed to promote their sports as an entertainment.

Hope that I have made my viewpoint clearer now.

Cheers... chris@ccc

.

..it's quite clear to me already and yes we've agreed that BC is a place for promoting badminton...I would also say the followers of badminton could be called "enthusiasts" as well, wouldn't you agree??..

I was thinking:
Whether one has already played or followed baddy or not prior to visiting/becoming a BC member, the general consensus or the majority of BCers has 1 interest in mind. And that is badminton.
I mean why else would all of us be here?? For a "social" gathering??...

As for the role of BC itself, it's one of many avenues (a great one i may add) for people who love badminton to come, share, learn & enjoy the game, as well as meet many other BCers worldwide.

Thus, I would say the interest in badminton, in whatever motive(s) or purpose to find/be active in BC, is what drives all of us to BC.

*sorry, folks, if the replies have somewhat strayed a bit from the main subject..

 

[chris-ccc]

The more they know, the more they could be persuaded to try Badminton

Thus, I would say the interest in badminton, in whatever motive(s) or purpose to find/be active in BC, is what drives all of us to BC.

.
Just checking the poll conducted by kwun, we find that around 1.25% of BCers don't play Badminton.

I keep telling many people to join BC in the hope that "The more they know about Badminton, the more chances they could be persuaded to try playing and/or watching it".

Also, check this thread What drives us to play Badminton ?

.

 

[slimejocke]

Warning: Long Post

Hello, I haven't read everyone's post carefully just mainly skimmed so please don't flame me if this has already been addressed.

I am 17 and I have already given up on this god forsaken sport.

I live 7 miles from Manhattan Beach Badminton club and I have unsuccessfully tried 3 times to join their club, but I was rejected through email, phone, and email again (in that order). Although they gave me some reasons such as "we're full" or "adults only" I know the real answer is if your not good you can't join or you have to have connections

The closest place available is a local YMCA 3 miles away that only has 3 gyms and 1 court available for my level of play. It opens on every Friday for 4 hours, which I play for only 3. And since it is crowded, singles is a dream and I am afraid to play a game without fear of losing (if I lose people don't want to play with me).

I've also tried going to SGVBC, but it was a horrendous experience. I didn't know anybody there, nobody seemed nice, court arrangements were confusing, etc. It seemed like everybody there just wanted to get as much court time as possible. I felt very lonely and I decided never go back to that horrible place ever again.

I went to Orange County badminton Club once and received a similar experience. I had entered a tournament because I had never (literally) played anybody near my own age and I thought it would be a nice experience. Being inexperienced I quickly lost the first game, which was disappointing not because I lost, but because these people were so lucky to have a gym nearby with coaches, people their own age, and many courts. I didn't see one friendly face there and I was also embarrased because so many people were good and I think I got a lot of stares expressing "why is this kid even playing in this tournament? hes a joke!". And that was that. Good riddance.

Now to answer the Thread Question how to promote badminton. Badminton doesn't need any promotion. It just needs to be free and more readily available. Interest attracts more players and friendly people/court spaces will keep them interested. Then there will be a greater demand for more courts, which will allow more players to play. Then television networks will broadcast matches since there are already many players, they can expect lots of viewers. Afterall why would you display badminton games when nobody wants to watch it?

Additionally, Badminton has a negative side because it is played primarily by Asians. It isn't a bad thing, but imagine if a white kid wanted to play badminton where 99% of the people are asian? At my Gym i cannot even count the number of kids who enter the Gym all alone and not have anybody to play with them. They could ask others, but like all children they are shy. I have seen so many talented kids who quit because they can't find anywhere good to play that is actually open or nearby. Also parents and adults do very little. They are always busy helping their own kids to become better (which I can understand), but what athlete would want to play against similar kids who are gegraphically lucky to have a GOOD Gym nearby or financially to hire a coach?

Well thats my 2 cents. I got tired of seeing too many people wondering why, well the answer is YOU. You are the problem.

A shame, really.

 

[ctjcad]

Hmm..

.
Just checking the poll conducted by kwun, we find that around 1.25% of BCers don't play Badminton.

I keep telling many people to join BC in the hope that "The more they know about Badminton, the more chances they could be persuaded to try playing and/or watching it".

Also, check this thread What drives us to play Badminton ?

.

- That's an interesting percentage number. Hmm, btw, can you lead me to which poll you're referring to??
- I think we all can tell/refer people who haven't played baddy or even visited BC to come and visit this place. But until they are somewhat interested enough, themselves, to visit or be active in here, it's going to be a challenge to instill an interest in baddy.
And i think, even if they're not playing baddy but would prefer watching or following the sport (in BC), it should be fine. Afterall, all of us are baddy enthusiasts.
- The thread you've pointed out is very good. However, i feel that the inputs, in there, are a bit too broad-based (too many varieties/factors).

To slimejocke: sorry to hear about your unpleasant experiences. Yes, i know & can feel your sense of disappointment and frustration. Hmm, as far as other places to play near your area, if you're interested, there's a place @ SMC where one can play in. Not sure if you've tried that place or not. They're usually open on Sunday from noon til 8 pm. It has plenty of courts and there are people you can ask to play with. Anyway, hope you won't give up baddy and hope you'll find a good group to play with.

 

[chris-ccc]

slimejocke has provided some good reminders for us

Please don't flame me if this has already been addressed.

I know the real answer is if your not good you can't join or you have to have connections.

"Why is this kid even playing in this tournament? he's a joke!".

I have seen so many talented kids who quit...

.
slimejocke... Yes, I understand just how you feel.

Actually, it is because I see so many clubs are doing it that I have decided to start one different myself.

You can follow some of our discussions... Post #12 of this thread here .

That's an interesting percentage number. Hmm, btw, can you lead me to which poll you're referring to??

ctjcad... That kwun 's poll is located here .

Cheers... chris@ccc

.

 

[ctjcad]

^^Gotcha..^^

.. thanks for confirming the link~had a feeling, but wasn't sure. Yeah, hope those (in the poll) who haven't played, yet, can maintain their interest in baddy/BC.

 

[chris-ccc]

About 1.25% of BCers do not play Badminton

.. thanks for confirming the link~had a feeling, but wasn't sure. Yeah, hope those (in the poll) who haven't played, yet, can maintain their interest in baddy/BC.

.
Hi ctjcad,

Yes... About 1.25% of BCers do not play Badminton. Perhaps they have retired from the sport, and not that they have never played Badminton before.

But it was thoughtful of kwun to have included in his poll the category: "I don't play badminton".

Even though the sample size is small, with only 1 out of 30 BCers voting, it still shows that not all BCers are playing Badminton.

Another interesting thing is that for every BCer active in our forum, there are usually about 3 nonmembers active most of the time. I wonder if the same result holds for them as well ???

Cheers... chris@ccc

.

 

[enthusiast]

Thanks, Slimejock, for the your informative, if lengthy post. Starting out in the sport can be rough and most people must know exactly how you feel. I even had a serious, advanced player say to me that he was not for promoting the sport because even worse congestion would result. When I first started playing a few years ago, public courts were all that were available. That situation is starting to change. Since then, one badminton-only facility opened up near me and I took a chance at joining, even though friends warned that it would be expensive, cliquish and that no one would play with me. But because of it's proximity and great playing conditions, I stuck with it and in time have found lots people to play with.

As for your view that badminton is viewed as a foreign, mainly Asian sport, you're probably right. I don't know your ethnicity, but I (Asian), too, have wondered about the comfort level of non-Asians coming to a facility that was near-100% Asian. It's my view once play begins, everything else is forgotten.

I think it is true that most Asians tend to be less outgoing than people from other groups, whether for cultural reasons, shyness or language difficulties. Most, unless they grew up in the West, are reluctant to approach strangers because that might be considered presumptive or agressive of them and they would prefer to mind their own business, anyway. So, when stepping into a new facility filled with Asians, if no one comes forward to invite or greet you, don't take it personally. Exclusivity in Badminton is much more a matter of skill level - whether you can play a good game or not.

You are right in implying that most clubs exist for their clientele and not to promote the sport. If the clientele is abundant, they have even less motivation to promote, although popularization would be in their best interest in the long run.

Judging from your interest in the subject, though, you will not and should not give up on this great sport that you can play for the rest of your life, barring disability (there were even wheelchair badminton teams in the recent Paralympics in Bangkok last year). To my great regret, I gave up the sport in college after hitting myself (in a particularly sensitive place) and lost 35 years of skills development. It's a lot harder to take up a sport at age 55 than at 21. So, don't give up. Play at school, college, or public courts if you must.

PS, If you see so many kids standing on the sidelines, why don't you invite them to join you?

 

[ctjcad]

Hmm..

...
Another interesting thing is that for every BCer active in our forum, there are usually about 3 nonmembers active most of the time. I wonder if the same result holds for them as well ???
...

..that's an interesting stat; mind sharing w/us how that stat came up?. Anyway, whether they haven't played or they have stopped playing/retired, they're here (in BC) for a reason & of 1 interest...Well, i hope so...

Okay, now back to discussing the original thread subject..

 

[Fan888]

slimejocke, I would believe many of us here know how you feel. It is not easy to find a group of friends with similar skills and share the interests and reasonably like each other . I had a tough time finding a group that fits me also. That is why you'll find online groups and query on BC looking for partners.

One suggestion for you. Since you are 17, the best place to hookup with players would be in your high school or friends from high school. Beyond that, colleges and universities would be the next best choice when you go there.

I can't comment on the clubs that you mentioned since I don't play there.