How To Quantify Improvement ?

[dnewguy]

Hello everyone,

While going through a few threads online, this thought occurred to me...

How can a casual badminton player judge his improvements of the game ?

I have been playing for close to a decade now (no formal coaching) and although I have definitely came a long way, I have never objectively thought about - 'My Level'.

Earlier learning new shots; deceptions; footwork; rotations; netplay etc used to be my learning milestones.
But now that I can execute almost all the shots with satisfaction (get the intended results), what should be my goal or reference point?


I see most people upgrade to stiffer and more head heavy racquets. Is that a mark of better technique?

I'm most comfortable with a 4u flexible headlight racquet. Now leaning towards 4u balanced Arcsaber because generating power from backcourt is definitely more taxing. Is this a progression to stiffer & headheavy racquets ?
Because I'm changing due to my partner's inability to score from backcourt. Unfortunately I have never paired with an agile heavy Smasher otherwise I would love to improve as a front court player.



So once again my question is :- How should I know (objectively) that I'm making steady improvements to my badminton game (doubles) ?

My goal is just to keep improving.

Thanks.

 

[speCulatius]

How should I know (objectively) that I'm making steady improvements to my badminton game (doubles) ?

If you're not sure, you're probably not improving.

There goes so much into it that it's impossible to objectively say overall. You can pick out some aspects of the game like shot placement and figure out a drill that can objectively count if a shot landed where you wanted it to go and then do it regularly to literally count.

You can chart your games for unforced errors made, for winners played, for good or bad shot choices even, but it gets subjective pretty quickly.

The best general idea you'll get is through achievements. But that is not objective at all.

One aspect where you have to improve is definitely tactics, because...

my partner's inability to score from backcourt

That's not the job of the backcourt player. It's very unlikely that (assuming evenly matched pairs) anybody will hit a straight winner from the backcourt. Move the opponent, wait for a weak return or set up your partner in front when you're in the back. You can go for a winner from a shorter lift or as a surprise every once in a while from the rear, but that's not the general idea. Or it shouldn't be.

I see most people upgrade to stiffer and more head heavy racquets. Is that a mark of better technique?

I have not seen that. Some of it may be ego (said the Adidas Wucht P8 user). Overall, better players will be able to deal with the downsides of more extreme rackets better than beginners. When you're prepared, a head heavy racket is not that bad in defense. When you have good technique, you can generate a ton of power with (head)light rackets. As a beginner, all of that is difficult. When you're better, you have more choices available that will not pull you down.

 

[Budi]

Hhhmmm.... Difficult answer i guest. Not sure if im high intermediate, or low advance or what... No exact measurement number to tell one skill.

Does racket is the mark. Stiffer mean im improved? Probably but it still very bias measurement. I use stiffer racket coz i like the feel of control it give, the stability on the shaft. Maybe due to my technique improving & my swing are more explosive, the flex racket makes me feel ackward. But again if i never want new toy, trying stiffer racket i wouldnt know & still kicking with my old flex racket. Even now if i switch to my old racket, im still kicking hard & not makes me much worst, just feel ackward with the bending.

Now the skill & technique. I could do clear efforthless, smash hard, drop shot, net, & any other shot. Consistency not to bad. Footworks... Not the fastest consider my belly panda but not a slow snail either. So am i good? Well... I play alot with many different player. I win some but lose some to. So i guest just having the correct tecknique itself is not enough. Not just how to use it but we also need to learn when to use it & where to use it & all that come with experience.

Im not aiming for pros, but just hobby fun competitive player. For me, am i improving?
Whenever im getting beaten badly & for every rematch i could close the gap, then i know im improving. Maybe my skill is lacking or maybe i made a bad call but as long im scoring more & more on every rematch, i know im getting better.

 

[Cheung]

Because I'm changing due to my partner's inability to score from backcourt.

Hmm. If you look at top class doubles, you would very frequently see inability to score from the backcourt.

So once again my question is :- How should I know (objectively) that I'm making steady improvements to my badminton game (doubles) ?

Entering tournaments / playing league matches and observing the trend of your results.

 

[SnowWhite]

Hello everyone,

While going through a few threads online, this thought occurred to me...

How can a casual badminton player judge his improvements of the game ?

I have been playing for close to a decade now (no formal coaching) and although I have definitely came a long way, I have never objectively thought about - 'My Level'.

Earlier learning new shots; deceptions; footwork; rotations; netplay etc used to be my learning milestones.
But now that I can execute almost all the shots with satisfaction (get the intended results), what should be my goal or reference point?


I see most people upgrade to stiffer and more head heavy racquets. Is that a mark of better technique?

I'm most comfortable with a 4u flexible headlight racquet. Now leaning towards 4u balanced Arcsaber because generating power from backcourt is definitely more taxing. Is this a progression to stiffer & headheavy racquets ?
Because I'm changing due to my partner's inability to score from backcourt. Unfortunately I have never paired with an agile heavy Smasher otherwise I would love to improve as a front court player.



So once again my question is :- How should I know (objectively) that I'm making steady improvements to my badminton game (doubles) ?

My goal is just to keep improving.

Thanks.

I'd say the best way to measure is by results. Are you scoring better against the same players than you did before? It is unlikely that all players at the club are steadily improving. Usually, especially when it's all adults, most players' level will be stagnant, so it can be a good measurement to see if you are scoring better against the same players than a year ago, or 5 years ago.

I think a racket's balance is more of a personal preference separated from playing level. But as timing, technique, and power improves, a player can find that they can more easily access the benefits of a stiffer racket. In general, a flexible racket will be easier to play with, while a stiffer racket allows a higher power ceiling and perhaps a crisper feel. It is a similar effect to playing with a higher string tension.

Still, there are plenty high level players that play with flexible rackets. Stiffer rackets require more effort and precision in technique. Despite the benefits, due to the less forgiving nature of stiff rackets, it can lead to more mishits, mistakes, and loss of power when not hitting cleanly. At most levels it is more important to not make mistakes than it is to have a slightly better smash. Your preference for flexible rackets is likely due to the ease of use. This allows you to not worry too much about perfect technique and instead focus on tactics, your own game and the opponent instead.

If you improve and find that you are consistent enough with more demanding rackets then more power to you, but many decide that it is not worth the tradeoff. I remember Lee Yong Dae played with Bravesword 12 for quite a while, a famously forgiving racket.

I play with Apacs fusion speed 722. Very light, even balance, medium stiff. That is as stiff as I ever want it to be.

Finally, try to find a consistent partner. It is difficult to judge yourself on doubles play if you play with many different partners of varying skill levels. It is possible to adopt bad positional habits when playing with worse players, even if it improves your results with those players. It's easier to judge a doubles pair than a doubles player, because it can be troublesome to determine whether you or your partner contributes to a win or a loss. Usually players are biased towards themselves. Therefore it is best to find a partner you enjoy playing with and practice together and judge yourselves together as a unit.

 

[SSSSNT]

Earlier learning new shots; deceptions; footwork; rotations; netplay etc used to be my learning milestones.
But now that I can execute almost all the shots with satisfaction (get the intended results), what should be my goal or reference point?

Well just because you get the intended result, it doesn't mean those shots are optimal yet. You can record yourself and see if the power and steepness of your smashes for example are close to a tournament level athlete you see in youtube. If not then that's one objective goal. This can be applied to a lot of things like drop, net, defense, etc.

 

[BadmintonDave]

Hello everyone,

While going through a few threads online, this thought occurred to me...

How can a casual badminton player judge his improvements of the game ?

I have been playing for close to a decade now (no formal coaching) and although I have definitely came a long way, I have never objectively thought about - 'My Level'.

Earlier learning new shots; deceptions; footwork; rotations; netplay etc used to be my learning milestones.
But now that I can execute almost all the shots with satisfaction (get the intended results), what should be my goal or reference point?


I see most people upgrade to stiffer and more head heavy racquets. Is that a mark of better technique?

I'm most comfortable with a 4u flexible headlight racquet. Now leaning towards 4u balanced Arcsaber because generating power from backcourt is definitely more taxing. Is this a progression to stiffer & headheavy racquets ?
Because I'm changing due to my partner's inability to score from backcourt. Unfortunately I have never paired with an agile heavy Smasher otherwise I would love to improve as a front court player.



So once again my question is :- How should I know (objectively) that I'm making steady improvements to my badminton game (doubles) ?

My goal is just to keep improving.

Thanks.

Smart goal measurement is

Specific
Measurable
attainable
realistic
Timely

Keep the above in mind for any improvements you want to make and observe in yourself.

A few years ago I made a spreadsheet to rate myself on every shot, and things like tactics, speed of movement, deception etc. I rated each out of 10 and colour coded them. 8 9 10 were green or dark green. 5 6 7 were yellow. 4 and below were orange 2, 1 and 0 were dark red.

I play nearly every day of the week and I would challenge myself to focus on one specific shot or tactic and see if I could make it work in a game situation.

Overall it worked for me, but it would have been quicker (and more expensive) to hire a coach.

I reviewed my progress after one year and I am very happy with my backhand crosscourt drop, and my serving consistency. My serve returns are the next thing I need to improve on.

-
As for, your "goal" or "reference point", look at a club of players. Are you good enough to play with them? Look at a better club of players (higher division in a league or whatever), Are you good enough to play with them? Move up that way and improve your flaws too.

Your question about progression of racquets is an interesting one, but I would say 80% of your skill determines your badminton performance and shoes and racquet are the other 20%. Therefore, it's better to focus on the 80% rather than modifying the 20% and looking for a quick fix. If your technique or body does not suit a head heavy / stiff racquet, then you can short term / long term injure yourself. So be careful.

 

[UkPlayer]

Answer for me is in the training.

How long does it take to run xkm/how many km can I run. How much weight can I lift. How long and what breaks for my shadows. How flexible are my stretches. How many (insert shot here) can I hit out of 100. How long does it take to get from front court return to rear overhead and how often can I repeat in a rally. etc.

I can tell on court that I'm improving through games and matches but if you want it measurable on a regular basis you have to train and measure your training. Even if it's not as exact as above you can tell when your strokes/fitness/movement is improving in the training and it translates through to the games.

 

[Ffly]

Can you beat opponents that you couldn't before ? if not, is the score getting better ?

If yes, then you improved. If not, then you didn't.

Simple as that.

 

[Rittersport]

Can you beat opponents that you couldn't before ? if not, is the score getting better ?

If yes, then you improved. If not, then you didn't.

Simple as that.

I would not take the opponent as a base for the comparison as his level of play may vary (improvement / good day / bad day) but instead see if I can take some shuttle in a particular situation better than before. Maybe I can now clear all the way to the back from a late forehand / backhand, have better defence, etc

 

[ralphz]

A key in your post is you say you haven't had formal coaching. A coach might look and say "perfect" no need to work on that. Or they might say rubbish or how you should improve it.

My experience is everybody would remark on my amazing improvements very often. Being told I improved more than anybody, in multiple clubs I played at.

Being told I couldn't play at a club but improving so much that they wanted me there and improving so much more that I was asked to represent them.

So many signs of improvement it was never even a struggle to see.

Looking at players on another court that were understood to be better than the group I was playing with. Then being invited into that group and hanging in there and I realised I was now at similar level to them.

Having a coaching session where I was doing something wrong and fixing it to the coach's satisfaction.

It's like how a beautiful woman knows she is beautiful , everybody is stunned and remarks on it. Somebody that makes amazing improvements gets complimented on the improvements. And not people being polite. But people seeing something amazing and wanting to say it.

I quit for a long time due to an injury , I played at strong intermediate level. I never got to regional level (and that's fine) . I don't know if I'd have gotten to regional level had I kept on with it and not gotten the injury. So Even with all those improvements I didn't get to regional level though. So players that did must have had even more reactions of amazement from people. I did play alongside some regional level players sometimes. (Who also remarked on my improvements).

You can't really be a very good player without a coach.

Part of seeing improvements also is identifying flaws. Opponents pretty much do that for you! Coaches can too. A good improvement is when what opponents or an opponent did that got you last time doesn't get you this time(cos you trained to correct it). Or now they are afraid to hit it to you and you need to play with better players.

Sometimes starting out you can't tell if you are improving cos many around you are improving eg you all do group coaching . But then you have to improve more than all of them.. eg 1-1 coaching, and it is doable to improve more than all the people in beginner group coaching, if you enjoy it and get coaching and are kind of obsessive. It seems you haven't gone to group coaching even so that's like not even starting re steps to significant improving!

 

[Budi]

I would not take the opponent as a base for the comparison as his level of play may vary (improvement / good day / bad day) but instead see if I can take some shuttle in a particular situation better than before. Maybe I can now clear all the way to the back from a late forehand / backhand, have better defence, etc

True, but for not coached player its hard to measure self improvement. So, measuring ourself based on opponent are the simplest way. Afterall we didnt aim for perfection like the pros but just enjoy the games competitively.

So its all back to the one who question themself. Why one ask this? Is it for perfection to compete at the highest level or just life expectation? Am i really improving myself or just do thing for nothing?

 

[dnewguy]

Apologies for the late comeback (got pinned all week) and grateful for the replies.

When I said that my partner is unable to score from the backcourt, I meant that they don't have a smash strong enough for a weaker return so I can finish at the front. They are less agile + inferior backhand so if they have to move from one corner to the other then they would most definitely clear and lose the attack.
Even when they are at the front, they have a tendency to lift and can finish off the easy ones only.

I try to retain/ generate attack opportunities as much as I can. And a light flexible racquet allows me the freedom to play against my instincts. But it also takes away the punch from a smash.
My current Arcsaber Play gives me more chances for a winner from the midcourt(after I have forced a weaker lift ofcourse). But it also hampers my confidence to play tight net.

I was lucky to have a young coach play a few games with us today.
I asked him about the racquets.
He suggested me to stick with headlight/flexible racquets and to give a try at the mid range ones instead of using lower end racquets. Something about better materials giving more punch from the backcourt etc.
He said that headheavy would further invite elbow pains etc. He also pointed out that i remain stationary (which I thought was wise to save energy expenditure) between rallies.
He would be joining our academy soon so I guess it would be nice to have some training sessions later on.

Thanks again.

 

[dnewguy]

(said the Adidas Wucht P8 user). Overall, better players will be able to deal with the downsides of more extreme rackets better than beginners. When you're prepared, a head heavy racket is not that bad in defense. When you have good technique, you can generate a ton of power with (head)light rackets. As a beginner, all of that is difficult. When you're better, you have more choices available that will not pull you down.

So should I plan to progress & play with an extreme racquet and find ways to deal with the downsides?
Or keep improving the timing & shot selection with the light & forgiving racquet?

Because I'm sure that gameplan would change accordingly.

 

[dnewguy]

At most levels it is more important to not make mistakes than it is to have a slightly better smash. Your preference for flexible rackets is likely due to the ease of use. This allows you to not worry too much about perfect technique and instead focus on tactics, your own game and the opponent instead.



It is possible to adopt bad positional habits when playing with worse players, even if it improves your results with those players. It's easier to judge a doubles pair than a doubles player, because it can be troublesome to determine whether you or your partner contributes to a win or a loss. Usually players are biased towards themselves. Therefore it is best to find a partner you enjoy playing with and practice together and judge yourselves together as a unit.

Hello,

You are right about the racquet here. Although I shifted to light racquets after I started having persistent elbow pain after my dislocation injury.

The headlight racquet allows me confidently put pressure & take the net away from the opponents... My partner at the back may not be able to make good use of that opportunity but that's a different story.

I keep trying to play tight net shots even if there's a decent opponent at front. I do make mistakes but that's what challenges me to do better next time.
A stiff or heavy racquet would force me to lift or give me less time / options.


May be I should try and reduce the number of unforced errors. Try to have a safer shot selection. But then it will lead to longer rallies and increase the chances of errors on my partner's part.
I will try that nonetheless....

 

[dnewguy]

Your question about progression of racquets is an interesting one, but I would say 80% of your skill determines your badminton performance and shoes and racquet are the other 20%. Therefore, it's better to focus on the 80% rather than modifying the 20% and looking for a quick fix. If your technique or body does not suit a head heavy / stiff racquet, then you can short term / long term injure yourself. So be careful.

Hello,

I'm trying to get deeper into the quality of my basic shots one by one. Like I'm working on my clears for now. I will get back here after I get something substantial.

Regarding the footwear, I have learned that a snug fit works better for me (booty type design) than the conventional types. When I heel lock the laces, they impinge my ankle.

 

[dnewguy]

Answer for me is in the training.

How long does it take to run xkm/how many km can I run. How much weight can I lift. How long and what breaks for my shadows. How flexible are my stretches. How many (insert shot here) can I hit out of 100. How long does it take to get from front court return to rear overhead and how often can I repeat in a rally. etc.

I can tell on court that I'm improving through games and matches but if you want it measurable on a regular basis you have to train and measure your training. Even if it's not as exact as above you can tell when your strokes/fitness/movement is improving in the training and it translates through to the games.

I'm in my late thirties so my focus is on retaining my current physical attributes for as long as possible.
May be working on my small muscles would give me some edge.

 

[dnewguy]

You can't really be a very good player without a coach.

Part of seeing improvements also is identifying flaws. Opponents pretty much do that for you! Coaches can too. A good improvement is when what opponents or an opponent did that got you last time doesn't get you this time(cos you trained to correct it). Or now they are afraid to hit it to you and you need to play with better players.

Sometimes starting out you can't tell if you are improving cos many around you are improving eg you all do group coaching . But then you have to improve more than all of them.. eg 1-1 coaching, and it is doable to improve more than all the people in beginner group coaching, if you enjoy it and get coaching and are kind of obsessive. It seems you haven't gone to group coaching even so that's like not even starting re steps to significant improving!

Yep.

I'm always at a lookout for better players.
Or if an opponent has a special serve or catches me off-guard with a flat drive etc then I take a mental note and counter the next time it happens.

I'm trying to better my anticipation game. It's difficult for now. It's always a second later that I realise the missed opportunity.

 

[speCulatius]

So should I plan to progress & play with an extreme racquet and find ways to deal with the downsides?
Or keep improving the timing & shot selection with the light & forgiving racquet?

Because I'm sure that gameplan would change accordingly.

Play with a racket that makes it feel easy and keep improving. Your taste for rackets may change and that's fine, then you can still change.

 

[Budi]

When I said that my partner is unable to score from the backcourt, I meant that they don't have a smash strong enough for a weaker return so I can finish at the front. They are less agile + inferior backhand so if they have to move from one corner to the other then they would most definitely clear and lose the attack.
Even when they are at the front, they have a tendency to lift and can finish off the easy ones only.

Its common on club where level gap between player are big.
But still its possible to measure with the same method i mention above.

Sometimes its not all about skill. You had devastating smash, your net play is hairline tight, your defense rock solid. But bad decision, bad choice, also play part in player performance.

Its easier to ignore all when you play on equaly high level as your partner are expected to handle the preasure, taking some risk. But with unbalance/weaker partner, you need to be very considerate on your choice. You play fast pace... do your partner could keep up with the pace? Do i play in my partner advantage or i play on my own advantage regardless my partner condition?

So... when you are partnered with this person again & again, could you score more on every rematch? If yes, then you are improving. Either better skill or better judgment.

So should I plan to progress & play with an extreme racquet and find ways to deal with the downsides?
Or keep improving the timing & shot selection with the light & forgiving racquet?

Because I'm sure that gameplan would change accordingly.

If you want to try & see if you like it, thats totally fine. But to burden yourself with extreme racket.... whats your aim? Become a pros? Nope? Enjoy the games but not kill yourself brother.