NEWS : SwissOpen07 : Men's Singles

Discussion in 'German Open / All England / Swiss Open 2007' started by kwun, Mar 14, 2007.

  1. OneToughBirdie

    OneToughBirdie Regular Member

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    Mental, I guess, sudden changes like LM departing affect LCW's play...also, when CHN MS or WS players lost for 1st time, they study the opponents and find ways to beat them next. As for LD, you can beat LD in 2 games, or LD could lose to a first round opponent cos' I think he is no focus and take things easy but when the game go into later round, esp SF and Finals, LD is hard to beat, and if the game go to rubber set, LD could play the 3rd set like the first, while his opponents are half dead and out of breath. I think the only players capable of beating LD, at any rounds, would be TH and any CHN MS players, CH, PG and maybe LCW (if he return to form). Therefore, CH is still too good to retire...sigh! Import him to MAS, hahaha! LOL!
     
  2. bad_fanatic

    bad_fanatic Regular Member

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    That's true huh. I forgot that LM is leaving to Korea right? Maybe there isn't a coach good enough to keep his skill level sharp.
     
  3. TKG2609

    TKG2609 Regular Member

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    Only Taufik n Peter Gade can beat Lin Dan in a good condition .... The others just "lucky", hehehehe .....
     
  4. JaCk™

    JaCk™ Regular Member

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    do not forget our LCW too. give him so time to regain his confidence
     
  5. zzz...

    zzz... Regular Member

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    No... Sony and Simon will soon...
     
  6. Makkem_1

    Makkem_1 Regular Member

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    I think Chong Wei will come back. There is being emotionally weak and there is not having confidence. They are not one and the same thing.

    I would say Kuan Beng Hong is the former, Lee Chong Wei the latter. LCW played with a stress fracture in his foot in his domestic championships, for goodness sake. It is not for want of heart or effort that he is not succeeding.

    I recently lost to a guy in an almost identical fashion to LCW vs Chen Yu. I led 12-1 and 19-12 in the first game, against a player who I'd never lost to. Come to think of it, he took only 1 set from me in about 30 attempts and that was old scoring 17-16. He was always a bit more skilful but I always had the edge in our previous games. but I still felt nervous, and he came back and sneaked the set 21-19. Second game: I didn't feel I was good enough with even a 7-0 lead, and when he caught it back I was like 'it's fate'. His confidence grew, mine shrank, and he raced away to 18-10. Then I tried to not feel sorry for myself and dug deep, but I'd left myself too much to do and went down 21-19. At which point I shook hands and in frustration broke my pride and joy Nano 9000 X over my knee. My confidence crisis stemmed from a pulled muscle that wasn't quite alright, but by the end it was 'my game isn't good enough, I used to be able to take this guy but he's improved and I have too many weaknesses, but the reason is immaterial.

    The point of the story is that I didn't stop fighting, and I was battling the pain in my bicep from my injury, but in that sense, a more relaxed player might have said after game #1, you came here to do a job, you took the set away from him once and should have won, now you can do it again. And also that before the game I had said to myself to be psychologically prepared to play 3 sets or lose the opener. When I lost the opener, I felt I had failed because even if i won the next 2, i should beat him straight games.

    The worst aspect is that my opponent could see my mental disintegration - and that was, he said the only thing that gave him hope in the 2'nd, and he said he felt he had to burn everything to get a big lead because he thought he'd get destroyed if I got my bounce, my confidence back. Had I bounced back sooner, he would have died in the 3'rd, I think.

    On a practical level LCW's confidence, like mine is not intrinsic [like Lin Dan's is] it is extrinsic and requires building up. Both of us build up confidence on a roll of points, but neither are naturally confident in ourselves. Kind of like needing a crutch. It is not even really a badminton thing - at least not in my case.

    So on a practical level, what is the difference between CW now and when he was on fire? Very little, is the honest truth. I actually think he's technically better in some areas, he's bulked up upper body muscle, his backhand clear seems stronger. I think before he never let his opponent see his emotions - either positive or negative. Like in the AE semi against Lin Dan, he only fist-pumped once. That is very intimidating to play against: I think it was very hard for LD because he tries to drag his opponent into a fist-pumping heart-on-their-sleeves game, which suits him because he feeds off the crowd and his opponents emotions - boo him and he's like 'I will show you', stand up to him and he'll hit you harder until he knocks you down. An impassive opponent worried him because its almost like its not worth the opponents while. And CW should have won there. But when LCW played Chen Yu he was fist pumping and shouting, but also less in control of the negative aspects. His face then betrayed his strain, lack of confidence. Of course, he does and always did care about it as much, but i think that he was better as the 'ice man' and i wonder if he was told to get into it more and be less inhibited to be liked more by the crowd.

    So, on a practical note, it would be better to exhibit more self-control, I think. I know that someone as self-disciplined can do it. I respect his right to be a passionate, vocal player - I myself am, but there is that weakness. At the moment I am trying to be the 'ice man' a bit more and I find I'm that shade more consistent. However, this patch might actually be bizarrely a good thing for him - to make him adress why he is not a confident person. Maybe if he'd kept winning, he'd never think to change his outlook. It saddens me greatly to see someone with such a positive game with such a fear of failure. If it leads to him learning to somehow adress this issue and learn to play with assurance and without anxiety, then he will be much better for it.... and also, watch out, the world!!!

    As for Kuan Beng Hong et al, they have the talent, but not the work ethic or the heart. Tan Chun Seang is the future: a LCW 'mini-me'!
     
  7. Makkem_1

    Makkem_1 Regular Member

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    Tought of this to add to my previous post, seemed aposite:

    IF you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;
    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
    Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
    And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:


    If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
    If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
    If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;
    If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
    And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

    If you can make one heap of all your winnings
    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
    And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;
    If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,
    And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'


    If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
    ' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
    if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much;
    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
    Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
    And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
     
  8. jurong_twister

    jurong_twister Regular Member

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    He used to be, but I noticed he has changed his game play in All England against BCL.

    LD is just too good to be beaten.
     
  9. JaCk™

    JaCk™ Regular Member

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    The AE final between LD and CY is one sided
     
  10. ck1981

    ck1981 Regular Member

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    Just wonder why Msia don't have many good MS. Look at those young players, I shake my head and worry about the future of Msia MS. What are the factors that prevent Msia from producing a world class MS? How many years do we need to wait?
     
  11. Wong8Egg

    Wong8Egg Regular Member

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    What is your point here?

    The match between SS and CY was one sided too.
     
  12. volcom

    volcom Regular Member

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    I hope Simon can pull it off against CJ...
    Hes done brilliantly :cool:
     
  13. virusvoodoo

    virusvoodoo Regular Member

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    I think Chen Hong qualifies along with Taufik Hidayat and Peter Gade. Although he does not have a good record against Taufik Hidayat or Peter Gade, I think he is the only one who has positive record against Lin Dan. As a matter of fact, Chen Hong may have a better chance against Lin Dan than Peter Gade.

    Gade only managed to beat Lin Dan once the last time they met at the 2006 China Masters. I think he needs a few more wins over Lin Dan to convince me like Chen Hong & Taufik Hidayat.

    I think Bao can beat Lin too but recently he hasn't done so since the 2006 China Open.

    As for Lee Chong Wei, he did beat twice Lin Dan during the Malaysian Open 2006 & 2004 or maybe it was 2005. But I don't think he ever beat Lin Dan outside of Malaysia.
     
    #53 virusvoodoo, Mar 17, 2007
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2007
  14. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    1st class coach and 1st class psychologist needed

    I enjoy your posts and appreciate the thought put into them.
    I agree with you about the fist pumping and shouting.When I first noted that in WC06 in his match against BCL, I was horrified by his 'mental training' Basically,he was on Positive Reinforcement: Fixed or Constant Interval schedule. This means he pumps himself up for every winning point.This kind of schedule is used for little kids like 2 or 3 years old where good behaviour is praised or rewarded every time it appears. However once the good habit is established, they need to be put on the Variable Interval schedule, ie praise the kid not every time but sometimes, more at random pattern. That way the behaviour is likely to be sustained and becomes a habit intrinsically.(Those of you who play the jackpot one- armed bandit, remember it's programmed on the variable schedule, so you can't predict when you're going to win, thus getting hooked until your budget runs out)
    LCW should only pump himself up more towards the later stage of the game or for particularly good winning shots. Also do it with minimum energy but be visually intimidating(remembering not to directly face opponent). The best example is PG's fist pump;no sound but the fist and facial expression say,' No way are you going to win this; I'm better!) affirming determination.
    Shouting should only be used rarely.When used for every winning point, it wastes precious energy;if there are too many points won, your opponent gets a good excuse to complain and a simple-minded umpire will warn you and that kind of attention can derail you to lose. When there are few winning points to shout every time, you get instant feedback you are playing lousy, generating a losing feeling, so likely to lose.
    MAS mental trainers are probably not sports psychologists; if so ,then not first class. In mental training, the wrong specialists can do more harm than good. Better to have one first class shrink than 3 second class ones. If MAS refuse to budget for one, then better save the money and hire none.Stop the damage.
    Get Mulyo, the underemployed first class coach. Give TH a good deal to share coach. It'll be a win-win. LCW's work ethic will make TH feel like a sloth so he may actually start getting down from the tree.
     
  15. X Ball

    X Ball Regular Member

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    :rolleyes:
    I am not sure I agree with you totally even tho I think you could be right about LCW.

    My take on this is LCW is too placid at times and lacks belief in himself, a lot of it is because he self-destructs when he is leading. How many times do you see him leading and then suddenly his opponent caught up and LCW ended up losing ? When he leads he tends to relax and play a bit loosely, e.g. smashing out along the side lines or rallying unnnecssarily long when he has the chance to put it away by smashing.

    A lot of times, his aggresiveness deserts him --- it is like he lets things slip when he is ahead and he plays different, a sudden loss in confidence. I call it a 'lapse in confidence because he has too much repsect for his opponent'. Yes, fear creeps in when you have too much respect for your opponents and drives the confidence level down. I agree with you that LD feeds on the crowds' emotions and also he becomes stronger when he gets into this mood of "I will show you". LCW has to change the way he thinks -- mentally, he must induce the same feeling --- when he is ahead, he must stay focus and think aggresively (that is to finish his opponent off, do not play cautiously, e.g. paying too much respect to his opponent).

    As for KBH, he is too soft in his mind --- he does not have that winning instinct. He is reacting most times --- he lets his well-known opponents dictate terms to him. He is ok when he is playing the not so well known players. As I said before, fear creeps in if you have too much respect for your opponents.
     
  16. JaCk™

    JaCk™ Regular Member

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    LCW needs to have more confidence and motivation. I experience the same problem as LCW vs Chen Yu too. In a tournament, I held match point at 20-16. But my opponent grab 6 points in a row and won. During matchpoint, i suddenly had no motivation to win it fast although i wanted to win. When my opponent continue getting point till 20-20, i suddenly became blank and no confidence. I think LCW is down and do not know what to do when CY starts collecting point. Hope wong tat meng can further improve his mental strength and confidence
     

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