Not as good when playing against inferior competition?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by SSSSNT, Jul 28, 2023.

  1. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    I would consider myself an intermediate player. When playing against equal or slightly superior opponents, I feel my shots are crisp, smashes feels good, drops are tight, etc. But when playing against people who I consider inferior opponents (but not a bad player), often I find my shots quality drop, sometimes significantly. And I know how we often play lazy against inferior opponents but I've tried playing my best against these opponents but my shots are still worse than usual. I mean I'd still win but it would be a much closer game than I expect.

    Anyone else experience this? I feel like I should be playing A LOT better against inferior opponents than equal/superior but somehow I just don't.
     
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  2. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Regular Member

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    It is easier to keep pace than it is to make pace. If you play against a better opponent, most likely he is setting the pace and you are forced to keep up. If you can handle the pace, you automatically get into a comfortable rhythm.

    If you are playing against a worse opponent, you have to make pace yourself. If you don't, you will follow your opponents pace, which will be comfortable for him. This can work, but only if you are comfortable in the defense and consistent. Usually when an opponent is weaker, but not by much, you still have to play to win.

    It is not uncommon for players to consciously or subconsciously feel like because they are better, they deserve to win automatically. But usually you can't simply lean back, do nothing, and expect to win. Or expect that every smash is a winner. Your opponent will still try to win, and you still have to prove that you're the better player. But people are lazy by nature, and they don't want to work hard if they don't think they have to.

    So what happens is, players start out expecting to win comfortable without having to work for it. The opponent is putting up resistance. The player realises that he needs to start working harder. The opponent is smelling their chance and works even harder and tries to up their level. And in the end the better player barely wins.

    It could have truly been an easy win if the better player had played as well as they could right from the start.

    No one is immune from this phenomenon.


    What helps is to keep a different perspective. Consider that you have never lost to weaker players, because if you lost, that means you were weaker. You have also never beat a stronger player, because if you won, that means you're the stronger player.

    It defines a players strength by the result on court instead of factors like technique, footwork or fitness. You can have a good technique and still lose.

    This will help you respect the opponent as a threat, because their strength has not been determined before the match is over. It will also help motivate against better players, because they are not better until they have proven it by beating you.
     
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  3. Budi

    Budi Regular Member

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    My club are kinda mixed skill level.
    I notice when my 1st games play with lower level & the next is competitive level (equal or above), its easier to follow up coz intensity are kinda linear from low to high.

    But when my games are upside down. It feel harder to follow up. From fast pace to low pace. It feel like its harder to slow down our adrenaline & adapting to slow pace than push up our adrenaline & keep up the higher pace.

    Similar feel when we are driving on highway with high speed & when we go out the highway finding a busy traffic, it feel kinda ackward suddenly driving slow. But from slow to high speed, i dont feel ackwardness.
     
  4. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    So both of you are saying pace. I suppose that's likely to be the problem. What do you think is the solution?
     
  5. Budi

    Budi Regular Member

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    Probably resting ourself abit longer to put down our adrenaline, but doing so basically cooling down our body to, so need extra time for warming up again & also letting the court empty are just a waste.
     
  6. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Regular Member

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    Learn to control the pace of the rallies yourself. Even if you are ahead on the scoreboard. If you are playing long rallies against this weaker opponent, then he is probably comfortable with the pace. He shouldn't be comfortable. You are better, which means that you can probably play faster than him, move faster than him, control your shots better at a faster pace than he can.

    There is nothing wrong with playing at a slower pace, IF you are consistent enough to play longer rallies and win that way. However, this way the opponent can usually find a good rhythm.

    So don't let them if you don't need to. If your pace is faster than the opponent can handle, you will win quickly. It's not necessarily about hitting harder shots, but about hitting shots earlier. Moving towards the shuttle instead of letting it come to you. Even if you think you already do this, you can do it even more. You can hit the shots even earlier. Most players can play faster than they think they can. Of course you need fitness and footwork, but the limiting factor for most players is mental. You have to consciously make the decision to do this, and it can be hard work. But I find that I get less tired by playing fast rallies that last 2-10 shots, than to play slower but longer rallies. And of course you won't have to do this all the time. You can build yourself a comfortable lead, and then take some rest. Or you can specifically push yourself when you feel like it's an important point.

    It probably still won't feel as good as playing better players. Because better players push you to play at a faster pace, you don't have to force yourself, which can make the rallies feel more effortless, even if you are giving it your all, and still losing.

    It is also possible to misevaluate your opponent. There is more to badminton than technique and footwork. It is not any less respectable to win on fitness or strategy than it is to win on superior technique. If a player gets better results than their technique would indicate, he has likely some other quality that allows him to do that. It is important to identify and respect those qualities in order to try and neutralise them. So if it is a specific player you are having trouble with, it is worth to take a closer look at his game.
     
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  7. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Different opponents exploit different weaknesses in your game.

    A number of months ago, I watched a boys match . Player A with better power , speed and technique, player B good but footwork and stroke technique not so refined. On paper, A should win comfortably.

    I thought A was going to win when I first started watching the match. As the match went on, B kept getting more shots back, even when under intense attacking pressure from A. It was very entertaining and B eventually won a close match.

    To summarise, don’t make assumptions about the opponent being “not as good as you”.

    If you lose to someone you think shouldn’t lose to, you need to really exam properly why you lose. There can be many different reasons as @SnowWhite has described.
     
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  8. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    Well first I got to say honestly I think we can all tell easily when the opponent is inferior. Like in that example, B winning a game doesn't mean he's B is better. From that description I still think A is very clearly better. Just like Axelsen has lost to many inferior players. I myself has beaten better players many times.

    Second it's not about winning or losing. It's about shots quality dropping. I'm gonna try pushing the pace like Snowwhite mentioned and see how it goes. I'm very consistent in longer rallies and defense. But perhaps I should consciously try to play very fast against inferior players.
     
  9. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Regular Member

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    I understand where you are coming from. I have not seen that match. It's possible that player A had an off day, but in the end it doesn't matter if player A was playing below his potential level or not. He played worse than his opponent in that match, or he wouldn't have lost.

    Considering player A better even though he lost is the prejudice towards overvaluing technique. Someone with a better technique probably has a higher potential ceiling, and a higher peak level if they are on their day, but a player's level is not defined by some abstract estimation of how well they could play. It is defined by how well they actually play.

    It is entirely possible that player B will beat player A again in the future (or has in the past) in the exact same way. From the short description it sounds like player B is tenacious, has a formidable defence, presumably good stamina, and isn't afraid of a technically superior opponent; qualities that player A couldn't deal with in the end. I wouldn't be surprised if player B beats technically superior opponents regularly. When player B beats player A, he is not playing above his level. He is simply playing at his level. When player A loses to player B, he is not playing below his level. He is playing at his level.

    I am experienced on both sides of this equation. There are players I play regularly that are technically superior, but I have winning records against them due to raw speed and aggressive shot making. There are also players, one in particular, who is clearly inferior technically, but whose hard working defence and never give up attitude frustrates me into error time and again.

    The players that have a better technique aren't better than me, because I beat them more than they beat me. The player that has worse technique isn't worse than me, because he beats me more than I beat him.

    I don't know your situation. Maybe all of this is not applicable, but I just want to emphasize that the best way to judge a player's true level, is to look at their results.

    In your case when playing inferior opponents, instead of playing your normal game, determine what exactly makes them inferior. It could be a terrible backhand, bad movement, lack of power, shaky nerves, or more subtle things. But whatever it is, play into that weakness relentlessly. It can be the difference of night and day when you figure someone out. Against inferior players, my first match against them will usually be my worst, because over time I will learn about their game, how they score their points, and how I score my points against them. This is also why it is important to recognise and respect your opponents qualities, because they can only be neutralised if you consider them a threat.
     
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  10. dnewguy

    dnewguy Regular Member

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    Hello all

    So much badminton wisdom here from veterans.
    I would like to share my little bit of experience playing singles. I'm pushing 40 & play mostly doubles with friends who are 8-10 yrs younger. My doubles game is the strongest of all (group of 8) but sometimes when they request for a few singles then i confidently agree and to my amazement I lose 50% of the time.
    Whenever I lose it's always because of the following reasons:-

    A) Making unforced errors (service/ trick shots/ lazy shots)

    B) Not playing to my strengths which is decent drops + smashes or exploiting the opponents weakness i.e deep BH and lateral movement from deep FH to BH corners.
    I keep extending the rally with neutral shots, ignoring the easy kills hoping that the opponent being less consistent will make an unforced error.

    C) Ignoring the rules of engagement for a Singles match.
    I keep playing drops from the backcourt(like I do in doubles) which the opponent easily recovers & starts pushing his base closer to the net.
    Or engage in a battle for a tighter net shot when I should be playing more clears & putting movement pressure on the opponent.

    Yesterday I chased down 7 straight points, achieved 20 - all & then took a mop up break had water and then gave straight 2 points by first serving into the net and then doing a punch clear which landed out of the side lines by a good margin. It took me just 30 seconds to lose. I regret taking that water break when I had the momentum.


    But whenever I do win, I win convincingly and effortlessly. I remember this calmness & confidence that "Anything you can do, I can do better."

    I never try to play as fast as possible because i commit more errors or even if I don't then i will surely get out of breath faster and that might lead to a drop in shot quality & errors.

    You must have seen the way LCW or LD toying with young players rite?
    I believe that's how easy it should be to defeat inferior players.

    P.s :- I'm not a coach or received formal training in badminton.
     
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  11. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    Well from the description it seems to me the conclusion is drawn based on only one close match. Based on that I would certainly still call Player A better. Playing worse is not equal as being a worse player. As I said, Axelsen lost to inferior player too.

    Anyways, it's not about winning or losing, since I won consistently against these inferior opponents. It's more about the shots.
     
  12. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Regular Member

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    It is a difference of perspective. I understand it is easier in conversation and when talking about players in general to evaluate them based on their performance over time or based on qualities immediately visible from the sidelines like technique, but when it comes to your own personal game, and your potential opponents I advise to disregard those evaluations. Of course take specifics about their game if you think it is useful, but leave the sweeping statements. It is possible to consider someone a worse player, but they might be the better player in this match. It is possible to consider someone a better player, but they might be the worse player in this match.

    Taking a general evaluation about someone's level into a match usually undermines our own level. If we think they are weaker, we are more susceptible to not playing our best. It can make us lazy. It can make us arrogant. It can make us more frustrated when the score goes against us, compared to if we had the same score against an opponent we consider equal or better.

    If we think the opponent is the stronger player it can make us feel like we have to play better than we reasonably can, play closer to lines, play tighter shots, leading to mistakes. It can make us more desperate if the score goes against us. It can make us feel like a loss is acceptable, losing some motivation to give it our everything to try and win.

    I'm not a professional. I'm barely a coach. I'm an advanced player with good technique, but compared to my many of my peers it is inferior, less efficient, less effortless, less disguised. I am surrounded by players with better technique that I keep up with through fitness, strategy, tactics, and mentality. On the one hand I am happy I can keep up with these "better" players, but on the other hand it is a tragedy of wasted potential on their part.

    Technique is dependent on talent and it can take years to develop and improve. Most other qualities are easier to acquire and less exclusive. Anyone can train to become fitter. Anyone can analyse their games or their opponents to get a greater strategic and tactical understanding. Mental game is a little trickier. How do you learn to not be nervous? to not get frustrated? to stay focused? to up your level at crucial moments? How do you coach it in players?

    That is what I am trying to coach to you, and others who read this thread. I'm not here to put anyone down, or to show off (although I know it can come off that way). I wish for players to fulfil their potential. To that end it is important to embody the perspective I shared earlier. To consider every player a threat, and to consider yourself a threat to every player. To withhold judgement until the match is over. I know to some it sounds like some meaningless platitude, but it really isn't. Even if it isn't applicable to your current predicament, it can spur a major improvement for many in a more general sense.
     
    #12 SnowWhite, Jul 30, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2023
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  13. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    To me, winning or losing is an outcome of shot quality dropping so as far as I am concerned, we are talking about the same thing.


    It’s good to try different strategies.

    To be honest, for myself I don’t think about strategies to win better. I look at how to reduce my own mistakes or not play with poor quality. With that, my control on the game gets better. My own particular strategy is a pressure style of game - I don’t look for winners but try to pressure the opponent into playing with lower quality.

    Are you changing your style of game against weaker opponents causing you to make more errors?

    Assuming this is singles, how long are your rallies?
     
    #13 Cheung, Jul 30, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2023
  14. nprince

    nprince Regular Member

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    I can relate to what OP felt.

    Against better opponents, we have that urge/motivation to perform better-we get the adrenalin rush & body is ready/warmed up for the difficult shots & moves.

    Against weaker players, we are complacent, and expect to win even if we play a lazy game and start slow, our body cools down, and our accuracy is also nowhere near where it can be.

    Then they return a few shots which we were expecting as winners, assume that is a one-time wonder, and try again with the same results.

    Then Sooner you realize the game is going neck and neck, it is time to accelerate and finish-try our winners-it might go to the net or out for 3 reasons.
    • Our body is cold playing a lazy game and not ready for aggressive shots.
    • We did not build the pace. So from very lazy to aggressive transformation is not easy.
    • The added pressure of playing a game we can only lose. (When it is a game that you are expected to win comfortably)
    There is a cheat code. Depending on the level of the opponent, set a target & milestones for yourself- like always keep yourself 3 points ahead, have a 4-point lead by mid game & finish the game within 21-14, That way your game does not drop when you are playing against weaker opponents-because, you are playing against yourself!
     
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  15. UkPlayer

    UkPlayer Regular Member

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    There are two types of inferior player in my experience, one you can walk over easily.

    The other are slightly down from you but are a thinking player

    Even experienced players have difficulty with the latter because they often have compensatory skills which neutralise your main strengths (tight serve, highly consistent, good defence). I've seen many players with a higher skill level get unstuck because they expect to walk all over these players and then get themselves under pressure trying to force the game. I've also unstuck players above me by out thinking and neutralising them.

    The key I find in these situations is either consistency, back off 10% and keep the shuttle in and let them make the mistake under pressure. Particularly a lot of games come down to consistency, and an inferior player should be making more mistakes.

    Or if consistency is one of their compensatory skills then to pick on their weakness, e.g. if they are slow, play fast and move them.

    Don't ever go into a game thinking this player is weaker, too many people fall into this trap.

    Most times I see someone lose to someone they should beat it's because they made a ton of unforced errors from the get go and put themselves under pressure instead of just keeping it simple. It's amazing how many players try too hard and put themselves under pressure trying to force winners in every situation and can only play one way and when something isn't working for a few points go into panic mode. Learning to have different gears and adapting to different players is actually something a lot of people can't do and I'd classify it as a very difficult to learn high level skill that separates the winners from the losers.
     
    #15 UkPlayer, Jul 31, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2023
  16. BadmintonDave

    BadmintonDave Regular Member

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    Ultimately it is your failings. Practice and be as consistent on court as you can be with your shots, shot selection, tactics and movement.

    And you may have to adapt to your opponents' tactics and how they play
     

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