Playing To Win - WD fiasco from a game designer's perspective

Discussion in 'Olympics LONDON 2012' started by yamsyams, Aug 4, 2012.

  1. gamelessx25

    gamelessx25 Regular Member

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    It's not a question of cost, it's who failed. The system (rules) or the users (players).

    1. Rule using best of one's ability to win : Failed

    2. Round robin format allows for match fixing : Success

    3. Not do anything that is detrimental to the sport : Failed.

    2 : 1, you lose in your argument of the ultimate goal of securing the gold medal.
     
  2. XtC-604

    XtC-604 Regular Member

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    RULE #1 SUCCESS. Using the BEST of one's ABILITY to win: win what? win the short term goal or the longer term goal? Short term being the match, long term being Gold.

    RULE #2 Been there done that.

    RULE #3 What was detrimental to the sport was the BWF's system, not the players. This kind of stuff happens in soccer and stuff daily. You don't see that being detrimental. If anything i see this is as a positive, there is so much more badminton in everyday talk. Therefore Success.

    3:0
     
  3. gamelessx25

    gamelessx25 Regular Member

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    You're still die hard about the 100% blame lying in the BWF for setting up lax rules? Come on, wake up.

    The player's ultimate goal blinded them from what's important in life. Their reputation, you lose that, you lose everything else.
     
  4. XtC-604

    XtC-604 Regular Member

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    Losing reputation is losing everything?

    No, losing your roster spot on the national team, then losing your job/income is far worse.

    It is 100% the BWF's fault. Why would anyone that is not high on crack choose to implement on a new unproven system on such a big event like the OG?

    Come on, wake up.

    So you concede that the player's ultimate goal was gold. And if so didn't they try their best efforts to "win"
     
  5. gamelessx25

    gamelessx25 Regular Member

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    I don't deny life sucks for them now(DQ players). Where as if they did try their best to win and stomped the Koreans. None of this would be happening. If they had tried their best, meeting their team mates in the same side of the draw shouldn't mean **** to them. They're #1, who cares who stand in the way. Ultimate GOAL is the GOLD medal, who cares if my team mates stand in the way. If that's your justification for their behaviour, then they should of won everything, prove they're the best.

    Fact : they tried their best to get 2 medals for China. We all knew the DQ Chinese Pair were the medal favorites to get gold.

    It was their deliberate manipulation by throwing the game that's in question here. So lets be fair. 50% blame for the BWF. 50% Blame on the WD pair as there's no definite proof their coach and CBA involvement.

    To justified blame 100% on to the BWF is escaping reality and living in lala land.
     
    #25 gamelessx25, Aug 5, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2012
  6. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    Nor is there any definite proof that their coaches and CBA not involved. There were 3 intermissions, but no change in direction. Remember that?
     
  7. XtC-604

    XtC-604 Regular Member

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    WHOA WHOA WHOA...i think we've got a chinese team hater here. I think you fail to remember the chinese weren't the only pair doing this. The koreans did the same. It takes 2 hands to clap. For the Chinese: first comes country then comes personal goals.

    Fact: the OG would of been better if they had not decided to use this format.

    Also a fact: the olympic games would of been better to watch, had those 4 pairs not been DQ'ed. (you know specially at the KNOCKOUT rounds)

    Oh and 1 more fact: Putting in replacement teams was such a farce. The Canadians got destroyed and demolished by the Russians BWHAHAHAHAH
     
  8. dimcorner

    dimcorner Regular Member

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    man I need some popcorn.
     
  9. mindfields

    mindfields Regular Member

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    Again that's just another bad comparison.
    £95 for a single olympic session where the main event was ruined and a total farce.

    $120 for a season ticket which allows you to watch how many games the whole season? What would be the outcry if all those matches in the season where thrown and the players just sat on the ice and let the other team score. . . .
     
  10. gamelessx25

    gamelessx25 Regular Member

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    Not a hater, just a realist

    Don't redirect my point to say I hate the Chinese team. I am from China, it's great that they're the power house, the leaders of the sport. To so blatantly disrespect the governing body of the sport at the OG level is no class act.

    This shadowy side of the elite badminton circuit has been expose and the BWF finally did something about it to send a message. Lets see if they have the teeth the continue punishing the top teams for "not trying their best efforts" in the future.

    I believe the whole point of the RR was to grow more international interest for the sport. Having the weaker countries get walked over every 4 years is not good for that goal.

    I don't doubt the Chinese vs Koreans would of provided a higher level of play. They had the chance to do that in their game and they chose to play a joke of a match. They chose their bed, and they have to lie in it. So what if Russia smoked Canada? They had a game plan to pick on the weaker player and they executed. They at least played their best efforts for their countries and not make a deliberate mockery of the whole sport just because the weak rules allowed such wiggle room.

    Like it or not, it's all a business. Spectators pay for tickets, buys tee shirts, goes to events, spend a lot of money while they travel/hotel/food/shopping at the local economy level. There's a reason the host city has to bid. $$$. No fans, no pro sports.
     
  11. XtC-604

    XtC-604 Regular Member

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    I think you have that mistaken, its $120cdn+ for a SINGLE regular season game ticket.

    And it happens, in the NHL. Once teams realize they can't get to the playoffs, they'll purposely lose games to get the #1 draft pick. Since the worse you are, the better the picks you get.

    Another example: 2006 winter olympics. Sweden purposely lost Slovakia so that they wouldn't have to face Canada or Russia in the finals. And guess what the tactic worked. Well now you may say oh how can you say they threw the match? Sweden is a powerhouse compared to slovakia. Not to mention they had a 5 on 3 powerplay and not a single shot was taken on net, even though they were in the enemy zone the whole time.
    Should their gold medal be revoked?
    Yes its bad for the sport's image, but sorry if i'm the athlete, getting that gold at the end matters way more than your booing, jeering etc.

    And if you were a true fan, you'd see the motive behind it and celebrate with me when i win gold.

    You seem to be misguided. Look at all your previous post, you've never once targeted any of the other 3 pairs that also were DQ'ed. All you say is China this, China that. Get a hold of yourself, being from XXX country doesn't make it any less likely that you hate that country. I'm born and raised in Vancouver, Canada. You don't see me saying Canada this, Canada that. -.-

    And no, the BWF only acted because the vice president of the OG insisted they act, i assume.

    On the normal circuit, the bwf have their balls clenched by the powerhouses. Could you even imagine what would happen if China, Korea and Indonesia were to say !!#$ you to the BWF and play their own circuit? I mean who even needs the BWF, they have morons running it, doing a crap job of promoting the sport and screws up the OG.

    Yes you may say that Canada played the best that they could, but watching that match was worse than watching Korea/China. It looked almost as if Canada was trying to throw the match. Thats how lopsided that was.

    You're right, it's all a business. Which is why DQ'ing those pairs was a bad idea. Badminton is already considered a backyard sport for many people. Now to add match fixing and mass DQ'ing to it?

    Actually the reason why cities have to bid for the olympics is to see who can most properly organize the event with the most funding.
    After Beijing 08, London 12 was a joke.
     
  12. dimcorner

    dimcorner Regular Member

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    Wow that's a lot of money for a ticket! I can get one here for $30 bucks or so.
    Besides, all it takes is one crunching hit and they all start playing better ;)

    Also don't forget that at least in hockey they are much better at acting that in badminton.
    Soccer thou takes the cake in the acting department.
     
  13. XtC-604

    XtC-604 Regular Member

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    Yea, playoff tickets are even more :/ during our cup run, the finals tickets went upwards of $1g for crappy seats. But it was all worth it: can be proud to say: i was there.
     
  14. dimcorner

    dimcorner Regular Member

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    My brother went to the Panthers play off games against the Avs. (a LOOONG time ago) He got the pleasure of throwing plastic rats :) I don't remember how much it was, but I know he would not have been able to afford anything over $200 bucks!
     
  15. gamelessx25

    gamelessx25 Regular Member

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    China this China that... they're the top, they are suppose to lead by example.

    People talk about 100m... image of Bolt comes to mind. Talk about swimming, they'd think of Phelps. You talk about pro badminton, Lin Dan would pop into the mind. Every sport has their elite of the elite. I'm not only bashing China. If you wish, I can go edit all my posts and add Korea/Indonesia into them, but what I am getting at is if the top of the pyramid is corrupt, what else can you expect from the rest of them.
     
  16. XtC-604

    XtC-604 Regular Member

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    Again, consider your choice of words. It's hardly "corrupt" as you put it. The players and teams are just doing whats in their best interests. If that constitutes as corrupt then a lot of things in this world would be as well.
     
  17. dimcorner

    dimcorner Regular Member

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    I agree. I wouldn't call it corrupt. More like less than ideal sportmanship. They shouldn't have done it, but at the same time they should change the rules to remove the temptation of rule abuse.

    Someone will always find a loophole, but you got to make it at least believable to a beginner that they might actually be trying to compete.
     
  18. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

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    Folks! They didn't find a loophole and they didn't merely abuse a rule. They flat out broke 2 or 3 very clearly written rules in a manner that only a retard or the worst sort of Jingoist couldn't see. So I wouldn't call it corrupt either. When you break the rules it is called cheating.
     
  19. gamelessx25

    gamelessx25 Regular Member

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    I won't go into a debate about if corrupt is the correct term to perfectly describe this situation.

    What this fiasco has done is it finally forced the BWF to actually punish the long time practice of match fixing in world badminton. Enough is enough, question is, will the BWF apply the same punishment to future "loophole" abuse.

    No system is perfect, otherwise we'd be in a world where people don't kill people for gains. Everyone will be fed, everyone will have access to basics such as clean water. What this really exposed since there seems to be defenders of both sides of the System vs User, is how the human mind will justify something that suits their view point.
     
  20. XtC-604

    XtC-604 Regular Member

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    There is NO CLEAR RULE breaking.

    There isn't a rule in badminton which states: you must play to the crowd's content.
    The so called "best effort" rule is so vague. Is it trying to say you must try the hardest every match, or try the hardest to win the tournament?
     

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