Question: How have you changed your technique after watching the Pros

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Richizzle, Oct 6, 2015.

  1. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Re being balanced, ever seen how fencers thrust and parry? The other arm is always extended back for good reason.
     
  2. Richizzle

    Richizzle Regular Member

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    Well I've been experimenting with the over the head forehand with ok results, can see it becoming a useful shot once more practiced, certainly beats some awkward backhanded shots that it helps avoid.

    Footwork has made a difference too, consciously returning to a central point.
     
  3. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Generally, I find it quite difficult to imitate the pros and change technique. Most of the time, I am talking with pros during sessions in person and then relating what they say or what I learn from them to what I see on the court.

    For instance, I have always wondered why I have problems with a doubles backhand half paced midcourt push. Amongst lower competitive players my push is quite OK. But I need a margin of error of about 1 and a half feet over the net for the shuttle to go over consistently. Also, if I haven't played for a few weeks, it's one of my weakest areas until I get the feel back. I was doing some training with a ex international doubles player explaining the problem and he showed me a technique of an undercut into the shuttle. It makes the shuttle shoot off with a very flat trajectory. Whether I can use it in a game is another matter but at least I have more insight and I can see how it works with all the matches I have watched in the past but never been able to figure out.
     
  4. captaincook

    captaincook Regular Member

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    Hitting on the side (part cork part feather) ? So as if you are "sending" it out instead of hitting it ? Is the sound different ?
     
  5. alien9113

    alien9113 Regular Member

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    I find it hard to imitate pros techniques, much less change. But it's much more easier to imitate their footwork. For example, once I saw Ko Sung Hyun get into a ready stance (left foot forward) immediately after covering for Kim Ha Na.

    The moment the opponents lifted to his backhand side, he turned his body, moved backwards and jump smashed. I copied it for my doubles games (minus the jump smash since I don't know how to) and I like it a lot. It prepared me a lot more better to receive the shots to my backhand corner than the usual square stance or the modified square stance with my right foot slightly forward (for right handers). With better preparedness, I had more variety of shots to choose from.
     
  6. Jun Wei

    Jun Wei Regular Member

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    it it very hard to imitate the pros. I try to copy LYD backhand defence. LYD can switch between forehand and backhand defence.. Nah can't work out in real games. i am only social player after all.
     
  7. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    I think (but not certain) that he isn't changing grip when he switches between forehand and backhand defence - which is why he can be so quick.
     
  8. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    I am confident he does change his grip, but in a sense you are correct: the grip change from backhand to forehand is so easy and so small and so quick, there is no reason not to. Starting with the backhand grip, just relax your grip and cock your wrist to the side for a forehand - you basically have the correct grip (it doesn't need to be a panhandle grip, which is perhaps a more significant grip change). The indonesians also change grip easily. So, he is changing his grip, but really the two grips are so similar, its not that difficult to do anyway.

    Obivously LYD is also very good at using his backhand on the forehand side, which is more limited in terms of which shots you can play, but still exceptionally skilful.
     
  9. vibgyor1111

    vibgyor1111 Regular Member

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    For me, I've quit trying to smash my way to points, and play a little more opportunistically. Playing to areas as opposed to playing only power.
     
  10. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Since this thread has popped up again, here's just a quick update regarding my personal "use other arm for balancing"-project. During drills and training sessions, I literally forced myself to practise this excessively and slowly but steadily it seems to be creeping into my match-mode as well.

    And during some matches lately I discovered that it works for me as a focussing point to pull myself together during bad phases. We all know the situations when you all of a sudden start to struggle and making a couple of unforced errors in a row, like hitting easiest smashes into the net or out of the court and just somehow loosing it mentally. Whenever I feel to get caught in this mode, I actively start to focus on using my balancing arm and this seems to somehow get my system back to normal.

    On one side, my mind is then occupied with a certain topic and can get out of a negative loop, on the other side it physically helps to play shots from a more balanced position and thus gaining precision. And just like you said [MENTION=47032]MSeeley[/MENTION], it has an impact on my overall feeling on court. Maybe it's the better balance in my movements that also gives more mental stability.
     
  11. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Well done! Sounds like you are doing very well. Focusing on the balancing arm during matches may help you for two reasons:
    1. as you said, it means there is no room for negative thoughts if your attention is diverted.
    2. it will take you back to the mindset you have in training, where you probably play some great badminton. This is a good mindset to have - its the one that your body has and associates with your performance in training.

    Important though - don't come to rely on this: if you start thinking to yourself "when I think about my arm in matches I start playing better", then you will only add to the negativity if you try this in a match and it DOESN'T help. So just keep it as a trick that sometimes works, to avoid any future disappointment.
     
  12. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    That's a good point actually. As always, there will never be a magical cure that helps no matter what. So I think it's just important to have an arsenal of possible tools ready that could help (if used correctly...).

    Overall, I am currently pretty happy with my badminton and from what I feel, I have never been in a better shape. Being 35 now I decided after the previous season that I seriously want to know what's still "in there" if I take badminton a bit more seriously. So this has been the first year since a loooong time in which I have done some serious preparations and badminton orientated workout programs during the summer. And believe it or not - it's training that makes you better! ;)

    And being a lot fitter physically I notice that there is also more brain-capacity left to focus more on mental and strategic aspects during a match. I your brain is only screaming "I NEED OXYGEN :crying:!!!!" then there is just nothing left to think about a balancing arm or things like that.
     
  13. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    Yes, he does change grip normally - I know, but when under severe pressure in defence, I have noticed that he doesn't always seem to change grip - usually on the right hand side of the court. He would play a forehand cross court with what looks like a backhand grip.
     
  14. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Can you find an example video? You are probably right, but I am nosey and always want to have a look for myself. I am also lazy and can't be bothered to watch several hours of videos to find one where he does it that gives me a good view!

    Many of my defensive shots on the forehand side use a grip that is closer to "backhand" than forehand, but that doesn't mean I haven't adjusted it a little bit, usually by moving my thumb slightly to loosen up my wrist. And of course for some shots on the forehand side, maybe you want to use a more backhand style grip (especially when hitting cross court).

    My point is that the grip you change to is often actually so very close to the backhand grip anyway, there isn't really all that much pressure to change - just a readjustment of the fingers which is done during the backswing.

    Anyways - this is one of those kind of pointless discussions I think. Many players defend in different ways with different grips. There is no "best" way, there is only doing lots of practice and making sure you are a brick wall in defence and can execute a full repertoire of shots when under pressure. If Setiawan can do that one way, and LYD does it another, who cares what is "best"?

    What annoys me when people talk about defending is as if one player doing it one way is better than another way. Especially when people start talking rubbish about not having enough time to change grips. They are nearly always wrong. They often don't have time to consciously change grip - thats fair enough. But grip changing from backhand to forehand in defence (for example) is so small, and so easy, it can always be performed as you move the racket towards the shuttle to play the shot. The only time it can't change is if you stand committed to a shot and hence are not actually ready (and your defence isn't actually rock solid!).

    I want to see less talking about what is best, and what is right, and more about what is possible, and what we should aspire to! And personally speaking, defence is the biggest area for me where players are not doing enough to improve their game, and the area I neglected most when I started playing, and have benefited most from fixing.
     
  15. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    I'm going to struggle with that request! I've not noted down when I saw him do this, but I just recall seeing him do it before and thinking to myself that it actually made sense - as I've always wondered how he can defend so well. It may not be a full BH grip, semi-BH grip perhaps - I can't remember exactly but it wasn't a FH grip. If I come across it again I will post it up but I really don't fancy going through hours of youtube videos looking for it!

    Given that one of the tactics we employ in XD is to kill wide to the lady's forehand first, then if a weak return is produced, kill on the backhand side. This is because usually in defence we would defend with a BH grip. When asked to play a wide forehand smash return, the lady can usually switch to FH grip without much problem. But when asked to change from BH to FH and back to BH in quick succession it is quite difficult. Most men can often get away with it by playing a BH return with a compromised FH grip or a BH return on the FH side due to their extra strength but a lot of women do struggle.

    You're right though, in most defensive situations - when the smash is coming from rear to midcourt, there should be enough time to change grip. It's only net kills or exceptionally hard smashes that may prevent you from changing.
     
  16. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Fair enough! I would be interested if you see it if you should happen on a video some time, but I suspect you are correct - it is a partial backhand grip, which make a big difference and is easy to switch to from a full backhand grip. Many forehand shots can be played easily with a partial backhand grip i.e. the backhand grip with the thumb down instead of up, or with a slight rotation back towards neutral.

    Your sequence of attack is also reasonable against a weak defence, but shouldn't actually affect a player who waits correctly with a backhand grip. They should play the wide forehand, then immediately switch back to a backhand defence because that is the most useful grip, capable of playing 80-90% of all defensive shots. But, as you know, many players will not switch back to a backhand grip, and so you can exploit that effectively because they wait committed to the forehand.

    When training defence, my coach specifically does sequences like that in order to ruin my defence, throwing in high shots at the shoulder as well as shots just outside my racket hip where I could play either forehand or backhand comfortably. The only way to cope is to be completely relaxed, keep a backhand grip in between shots, and ensure that the defensive shot crosses the net at the correct height and position to make a sustained downwards attack impossible (i.e. they have to start hitting flat instead). A good defence drill is one of my favourite exercises!
     
  17. Caffrey

    Caffrey Regular Member

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    Ive always found the difference in philosophy of badminton between EU and Asian players. EU focus on swing power and control whereas Asian players focus on momentum from full-body movement. If you look at a player like HKV, he's huge and his arm is the size of my leg and when he swings he practically with just his arm whereas if you look at a player like LD, he swings using a great deal of torque from his core. It really depends on you; a full body movement takes a lot of experience and hours on court to learn how to control, however an arm swing is much easier to control but you lose a lot of power.

    I actually remember a coaching session with Nathan Robertson where he told me I was using to much of my body and that I should restrict my swing to just my arm for more precision.
     
  18. opikbidin

    opikbidin Regular Member

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    1. keeping the racket and feet moving even if it's just a little shake
    2. bend my knees
    3. keep my non-racket hand to my chest when I smash
    4. Go to the middle after doing a smash
     
  19. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Not really. Just a slight undercut with the racquet face going towards the direction of the net.

    Another method would be a short strike to the shuttle without much of a followthrough.
     
  20. Jun Wei

    Jun Wei Regular Member

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    I try to copy LYD by standing close to the doubles service lines during defence. Realize i could not get the drop shots. well, i am only a social player after all.
     

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