Questionable Coaching?

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DarkHiatus

Regular Member
I've posted on here quite a lot and finally today I attended my first 1:1 coaching session. I've come out of it a little confused - the teaching is much different to what I've seen online, but I am willing to entertain the drills and the teachings out. However, I would like to get some thoughts about the more peculiar aspects of teaching.

So the theme of the training was to slow down my tempo/play. My coach has mentioned that I am tense, hop/jump about a lot, and overall could slow down and thereby save energy. His teachings with some of my opinions are below:

1) Rearcourt forehand footwork
Coach said my footwork is a bit rushed - I do the two-footed 'china jump' into the corner too often on an attacking clear. Solution is to do a step out by doing a split-step, move right foot back, cross left foot in front of right, towards corner, and finally step out with right whilst turning body+shoulders+racquet to play the shot.

My opinion: fair enough comment about not jumping if i do not need to, but I always thought (due to videos and pro play videos) that the left foot crosses BEHIND the right on a step out. I demo'd it that way and the coach said to do it his way. He mentioned it is easier for power generation (but personally I can do a full court clear with a step out anyway...). This is the most contentious issue for me - any ideas on whether it would be useful for me to learn his footwork pattern? It would certainly slow me down, but surely i'd have to re-learn moving the left foot behind again?

2) Backhand Low Straight Drop (e.g. from a straight push)
Coach said my contact point is too far forward (towards the net), and that I should wait for it to move slightly further back to allow more wrist movement.

My opinion: I always thought earlier is better, but very willing to try anything new on backhand because my backhand is a reasonably weak area (especially on defending a push)

3) Forehand Drop (from step-out footwork)
Coach said to keep my racquet held higher whilst moving: certainly do not let racquet head go below waist height which I was doing

My opinion: reasonable, didn't even realise i did it.

4) Net shot movement/racquet position
Coach said to keep my racquet hand at net height whilst moving forward, with racquet head rotated side on (front strings facing left for right-hander), and to drop the head into position as I land from my lunge. Reason is to allow most deception/options - a high racquet could be me coming in for a lift/straight net/left net/right net/net kill. Previously, I came in with racquet handle at chest height, with strings facing the floor for backhand, and facing ceiling for forehand.

My opinion: I can clearly see the potential benefits, especially in deception.

5) Drop shot Recovery
Coach said after playing a drop from rear court after opponent plays a clear from back, I should position myself slight rear of centre court as the most likely reply is a lift, not a net shot.

My opinion: I have trouble with opponents playing attacking clears against me, so it's potentially a good point - I normally expect to follow a drop in and expect a net shot though, so on that front I'm not sure.

It was very interesting (and quite difficult adjusting to fed shuttles!), but perhaps some of these points are some things other BCers can check in their own game. It would be interesting to hear others' opinions on these learning points so please post if you have any input on any of the above!
 
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necrohiero said:
May I ask where did u get this one on one coaching?

Gesendet von meinem D5803 mit Tapatalk
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He's in the Manchester area. The coach has mentioned he was a predominantly MD player, and is affiliated with BadmintonEngland with level 2 coaching qualification. It was through the BadmintonEngland Coaching coordinator that I got his contact details.
 
1) I think it is faster the way he says, its what I use and most player even pros if the get stung by a flick serve in doubles or in big trouble but it means turning your back to the court, so if you can get to it comfortably with a cross left foot behind or jump why would you not? But good to know you have surely used it before.
2) there is an optimal position to hit. If it's overhead backhand obviously contacting the shuttle effectively "beyond the end of you swing" isn't good
3) & 4) as you said Benifit
5) seems ok would position there anyway after a lot of shots
 
DarkHiatus said:
1) Rearcourt forehand footwork
Coach said my footwork is a bit rushed - I do the two-footed 'china jump' into the corner too often on an attacking clear. Solution is to do a step out by doing a split-step, move right foot back, cross left foot in front of right, towards corner, and finally step out with right whilst turning body+shoulders+racquet to play the shot.

My opinion: fair enough comment about not jumping if i do not need to, but I always thought (due to videos and pro play videos) that the left foot crosses BEHIND the right on a step out. I demo'd it that way and the coach said to do it his way. He mentioned it is easier for power generation (but personally I can do a full court clear with a step out anyway...). This is the most contentious issue for me - any ideas on whether it would be useful for me to learn his footwork pattern? It would certainly slow me down, but surely i'd have to re-learn moving the left foot behind again?
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This might be able to answer your question. A good video with Kowi Chandra explaining every situation for every footwork. He's a former Indonesian national player now coaching in the US.
 
DarkHiatus said:
1) Rearcourt forehand footwork
Coach said my footwork is a bit rushed - I do the two-footed 'china jump' into the corner too often on an attacking clear. Solution is to do a step out by doing a split-step, move right foot back, cross left foot in front of right, towards corner, and finally step out with right whilst turning body+shoulders+racquet to play the shot.

My opinion: fair enough comment about not jumping if i do not need to, but I always thought (due to videos and pro play videos) that the left foot crosses BEHIND the right on a step out. I demo'd it that way and the coach said to do it his way. He mentioned it is easier for power generation (but personally I can do a full court clear with a step out anyway...). This is the most contentious issue for me - any ideas on whether it would be useful for me to learn his footwork pattern? It would certainly slow me down, but surely i'd have to re-learn moving the left foot behind again?
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I believe ideally the left foot should be crossing in front of the right to deal with attacking clears. So yeah, I think your coach gave you a sound advice. When you got enough time e.g. when opponent does high clear, then crossing your left leg behind your right is more comfortable and you can position your body properly to reply with whatever shot you want anyway. But when we don't have that kind of luxury, crossing your left leg in front of your right leg may give you extra power from the waist rotation (the body is in half-cocked position).

Even if you can do full court clear without doing that, I'd say it's still worth it to re-learn your footwork habit because (1) every less energy spent to hit that full court clear means more stamina to play more games ;), (2) you can reply that clear with a higher clear (and give you enough time to recover to the neutral position), or (3) you can use the extra power to hit a diagonal clear if you think your opponent is in no man's land after his attacking clear.

But most of time, when the attacking clears are, you know, attacking (worst case is let say the flick serves to the forehand corner), I'll just use whatever footwork that gives me the fastest reach; which foot crosses which does not really matter when you cannot reach the shuttle.

DarkHiatus said:
5) Drop shot Recovery
Coach said after playing a drop from rear court after opponent plays a clear from back, I should position myself slight rear of centre court as the most likely reply is a lift, not a net shot.

My opinion: I have trouble with opponents playing attacking clears against me, so it's potentially a good point - I normally expect to follow a drop in and expect a net shot though, so on that front I'm not sure.
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I think it's safe to assume you play single. One thing I might want to add is, most of the time we want to play the "fast drop" instead of the "slow and tight drop" in this situation. Therefore, when your opponent tries to reply with a net shot, there is a better chance that the shuttle will either be (1) further from the net (which means it's going to be closer to you), or (2) close to the net but the shuttle trajectory will be slightly higher, giving you more time to cover the distance.
 
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Thanks for the responses, particularly on the rearcourt pattern. I had a word with him about it, and he basically echoed what you all have mentioned, namely that if it is comfortable to do so, then left foot can go behind (e.g. high clear). Otherwise, left foot in front is more effective e.g. if you are moving from the front backhand corner (having just played a net shot), and have to move the long diagonal, or as edogaktop says, an attacking clear/push.

I am indeed learning singles play. I mentioned the recovery position after dropping, and he echoed your thoughts again - drops should be faster, so tumbling nets shouldnt be an issue, therefore stand back a little more as attacking clears will be more dangerous if I move forward. He also mentioned if I play a slow drop, then my opponent is likely to be at the back and will almost certainly be playing a lift at full reach, as a net shot would be unreliable, and certainly not tumbling unless the opponent is extremely good.

I'm much more confident in my coach now, and he said himself that he enjoys engaging in discussions, rather than have his students follow blindly. Let's hope I can quickly learn his teachings then. He told me he'd expect 3 weeks to learn, incorporate, and naturally play a taught technique. Sounds optimistic to me, but I'm happy to be amazed :D
 
Dave Jackson from the Manchester Badminton Performance Centre. His rates are reasonable (£10/h), but do not include court bookings.
 
That is extremely cheap for 1 on 1 coaching!

1.To echo what others have said - step out footwork can be done either way. I use both depending on where I am and where the shuttle is.
2. I don't understand about the backhand pushes so will not comment.
3. You should be carrying your racket high as if about to smash the shuttle - even whilst moving.
4. As long as setup is the same for all shots, and the quality is high, then do what you want. It is normal to have the string pointing slightly forwards as you approach the net.
5. Your coach is correct, especially as you should generally be playing faster drop shots. However, the later your opponent is to take the shot (as it drops further and further) the closer to the net you can stand (as they would have to hit it higher to get it over the net). To be perfectly honest though, your position on court is more determined by where you manage to get to before your opponent hits the shuttle - you don't have much time to go anywhere!
 
MSeeley said:
That is extremely cheap for 1 on 1 coaching!

1.To echo what others have said - step out footwork can be done either way. I use both depending on where I am and where the shuttle is.
2. I don't understand about the backhand pushes so will not comment.
3. You should be carrying your racket high as if about to smash the shuttle - even whilst moving.
4. As long as setup is the same for all shots, and the quality is high, then do what you want. It is normal to have the string pointing slightly forwards as you approach the net.
5. Your coach is correct, especially as you should generally be playing faster drop shots. However, the later your opponent is to take the shot (as it drops further and further) the closer to the net you can stand (as they would have to hit it higher to get it over the net). To be perfectly honest though, your position on court is more determined by where you manage to get to before your opponent hits the shuttle - you don't have much time to go anywhere!
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One of the things that stands out is you've mentioned I should be able to play high quality shots from my racquet carriage, only committing when I play the shots. Coach said I really lack deception so this is fair enough.

About the backhand, to elaborate, imagine the opponent plays a push to my rear backhand corner. It forces me to play deep backhand footwork, but is slow enough that I can choose to hit it closer to the net (roughly 1 ft closer to the net than my shoulder), or I can wait for the shuttle to move more and hit it once it's in line with my shoulder.

My coach teaches the latter as he says that you can get more wrist movement by keeping your arm with a bend, whereas trying to hit it early means my arm will be stretched, limiting the power, and angle.

To me, it feels like I am purposefully waiting to hit the shuttle further in my rearcourt (and having to use the corresponding late backhand grip), rather than taking it in front of my body (towards the net), but he said proper backhand technique is such that the shuttle is always slightly behind you (closer to rearcourt) or level with you no matter if the shot is from a clear/push.

I am not sure about this, but as I say, my backhand is quite a weak spot, so if taking it late improves my quality/consistency, then that is better than taking it early with low quality returns.
 
MSeeley said:
That is extremely cheap for 1 on 1 coaching!

1.To echo what others have said - step out footwork can be done either way. I use both depending on where I am and where the shuttle is.
2. I don't understand about the backhand pushes so will not comment.
3. You should be carrying your racket high as if about to smash the shuttle - even whilst moving.
4. As long as setup is the same for all shots, and the quality is high, then do what you want. It is normal to have the string pointing slightly forwards as you approach the net.
5. Your coach is correct, especially as you should generally be playing faster drop shots. However, the later your opponent is to take the shot (as it drops further and further) the closer to the net you can stand (as they would have to hit it higher to get it over the net). To be perfectly honest though, your position on court is more determined by where you manage to get to before your opponent hits the shuttle - you don't have much time to go anywhere!
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point 3...
i think that the koreans in general start with racket around chest height and swing in one movement
whilst lcw generally has it prepared at around shoulder height
does it make a big difference anyways ? or is both correct

but yh £10 for 1 to one is good but hows the feeding quality and the shuttle you use ?
never heard of that name only person i heard of from manchester performance is colin haughton
 
Alex_Xu said:
point 3...
i think that the koreans in general start with racket around chest height and swing in one movement
whilst lcw generally has it prepared at around shoulder height
does it make a big difference anyways ? or is both correct

but yh £10 for 1 to one is good but hows the feeding quality and the shuttle you use ?
never heard of that name only person i heard of from manchester performance is colin haughton
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I believe Colin is the Head coach at MBPC, Dave is one of the assistant coaches (but is qualified to instruct independently). Feeding is good (I'm just not used to the multi-feeding yet), and the shuttles are all old feathers, but usable for training. I wouldn't expect fresh shuttles unless for rallying anyway (which he provides an acceptable brand for). Not sure what they are, just not Yonex or RSL.
 
Alex_Xu said:
point 3...
i think that the koreans in general start with racket around chest height and swing in one movement
whilst lcw generally has it prepared at around shoulder height
does it make a big difference anyways ? or is both correct
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From my view its all correct. Its simply important that when you move, you are ready to play all your shots. Lin Dan back in 2006/7/8/9 had perfect racket carriage - very high whilst moving. From that position, he could play smashes clears and drops with ease and high quality.

The most important thing is that you are able to hit all your shots from that position. Most people have a very low racket carriage and are unable to play a variety of shots. Copying the koreans or LCW or anyone is a good idea and the specifics do not matter too much. Just make sure as you move you COULD hit any shot. A higher racket carriage is generally more threatening - there is more danger it may be a powerful smash than with a low racket carriage.
 
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