Tai Tzu Ying ( 戴資穎 )

TTY may end up with the same legacy of LCW - that is, a player that wins all the SS, but can never win a major title such as the WC or Olympic Gold.

At least with LCW, he tried every year he could enter the WC to win it (this year, he only withdrew because of his disease). We don't know TTY's future, but last year may have been TTY's best chance to win the WC.

Instead, TTY opted to skip the WC to play for at the Universiade. Was that her career achievement, to win the Universiade on her home soil? If that was her career achievement, then all the more power to her. If TTY assumed that she could win the WC in the years after the Universiade, she made an error in judgement because it's not that easy (just ask LCW). To top it off, look at all the Taiwan players that decided to play at the WC last year instead of the Universiade: http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=4A6A351C-463C-4229-8233-F7459FAD92B5. If it was that important to play at the Universiade, none of those other Taiwan players would have played in the WC. Instead, all those other Taiwan players chose the WC over the Universiade.

From the perspective of the badminton world and probably even from the perspective of Taiwan's badminton community, her failure to win a WC will leave an asterisk on her legacy. She would have been known as one of the all time female greatest players if she won the WC. This is the same problem with LCW. LCW's asterisk on his legacy is his failure to win the WC or Olympic Gold, despite all the SS that he won in the past.

I don't even know if TTY was the best singles female badminton player last year. Why? Because she didn't win the WC. I consider possibly Okuhara or PV Sindhu to be the best singles female player last year, despite the fact that TTY won so many SS over them. As for this year, the same. I don't think TTY is the best singles female player this year because she failed to seal the deal at the WC.

I wouldn't blame TTY if she tried for the WC last year but got knocked out. At least she tried. If TTY wins the WC in the future, then great, she won't have the same asterisk as LCW. But as of now, I am beginning to think she is like LCW, somebody who can win so many SS but when it comes to the most prestigious title in badminton, she is unable to win it, just like LCW.

 

Wow... just miss one WC gold and she's like LCW...?

I think she has many more chances in her future...

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I don't think one can talk about legacy unless the athlete is at or close to the end of their career. TTY still has plenty of chances to build her legacy.

 

She may have more chances in the future. Everything changes, every year. She could get an injury that could affect her play. She could fall out of form. Another womens singles player may ascend the throne and become even a better player than TTY ever was. Everything changes, year to year.

TTY may have made the same assumption that you did, that she has another chance in her future years. You can't assume that. In sports, because your career is so short, and because your prime years is even shorter, you take the chance that you have when you have it. Look at Viktor Axelsen - he won his WC when he had the chance. Even if Viktor stays healthy for the remainder of his career, he may never win a WC again. The one year Viktor won it, Momota was suspended and Chen Long was not in form and that may have been Viktor's luck. And Viktor was the best MS player last year.

In Viktor's case, he had his chance, he took advantage of it, and he will go down in history as a Denmark MS that won the WC, something that Peter Gade couldn't even do.

 

Yup, exactly. Look at Li Xuerui when she won the Olympic Gold in 2012. When LXR won in 2012, the badminton community was thinking because LXR was so young, she could go on to win many more WC and another Olympic Gold again. Now we see that 6 years later, LXR may never win a WC or another Olympic Gold again. Still, she did win that Olympic Gold in 2012 so LXR will go down in history for that, despite falling short after 2012. LXR's injury was unfortunate at the last Ollympics. But even in the the WC that LXR could not win, there happened to be another WS that ascended at the wrong moment for LXR: first it was Ratchanok Intanon and then it was Carolina Marin.

The most ironic part about TTY's decision is that in the long term, Taiwan, especially the Taiwan badminton community, will forget that she won the Universiade. But if TTY had won the WC last year, that would be something the Taiwan badminton community would never forget.

10 years down the line, TTY may regret her decision last year to skip the WC. In professional sports, always seize the moment when you have the chance.

 

Yeah, makes sense to me that a player that has won 2 titles all year is better than a player that has had an incredible winning streak, has been world No. 1 and has been winning 7 (!) titles. Remember when Chen Jin was the best Mens Singles player in 2010 when he won the WC? He was much better than LCW and Lin Dan that year, right?

 

This is well said. A year is a long time in badminton when the average lifespan of a professional player is 10-12 years, and for a child prodigy, you start young and end earlier than the normal professional. So, it's possible TTY who started at the age of about 16 may start to decline and quit by 26 to 28.

As for your previous post, I concur with most of what you wrote except that I want to point out the comparison with LCW may not be fair or apt, not because she's still young at 24 and has several more years to try for a major title, but mainly because LCW has like 7 silvers in WC/OG to show for on top of his many more SS/PSS prestigious titles, while TTY hasn't got even one yet.

Therefore, in terms of accolades, the two are not comparable. I'd give TTY, now 24 years old, another 2-3 years to prove herself worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as LCW.

Who knows,we might even have one or two more WS coming up to deny TTY sooner than we expected. Better make hay while the sun shines. She forwent it last year, unwisely and, I add, misguidedly, for the Universiade when she was widely touted, myself included, as the champion in the making, and this time she was unexpectedly stopped by He Bingjiao - that's two valuable chances gone.

As an aside, allow me to say, I had this vague feeling He Bingjiao might pull it off against TTY in the QFs as it's only the 3rd match for HBJ whom I believe would not be too affected by the toll of accumulated fatigue to do so and she succeeded, thus sort of vindicating what I once said just after the INA Open that she poses a real threat to anybody in the earlier rounds, including TTY ( for saying that I was sneered at by someone in this forum).

Anyway, I believe such a gifted player as TTY can still surprise us next year or two. Let's wait and see.

 

Fair enough. But you‘re not really saying a lot of BC members are semi literate Badminton fans, are you?

Because I read galaxyduo‘s point a lot on here. People who follow Badminton closely should know better. I don‘t think Chen Jin has more fans in China than Lee Chong Wei for example.

 

And how long has LCW been playing to build his legacy? Compare LCW to say, Carolina Marin. If Carolina Marin retired tomorrow, because she achieved so much in such a little time, her legacy as a WS player would be comparable to LCW, who had to spend a decade and a half to build that legacy.

TTY has only been at her best for 2 years. If she gets injured, her game drops, or another WS becomes better than TTY, TTY's legacy won't nearly be as well known because she was only a top player for 2 years. This is why you don't forgo making your legacy when you are in your prime. You can't predict tomorrow, let a lone predict what will happen in a year.

 

This. Cheung is absolutely correct. This defines Ji Xinpeng who won gold at the 2000 Olympics. I don't even remember Ji Xinpeng for anything else. He had a very forgettable career, except that he won gold at the 2000 Olympics. But yet Ji Xinpeng will be there in the list of MS players that won gold at Olympics.

Taufik? 80% of Taufik's legacy was built in about 3 years. But Taufik took advantage of those 3 years. Now he is a legend. You take out those prime 3 years of Taufik's career, and he is not a legend.

I hope TTY wins a WC or Olympic Gold to seal herself among the legends of badminton. Because that choice to skip the WC last year is looking worse and worse, from hindsight.

 

Once again, it‘s not important to me how other people think about this matter. Even if it’s the majority. Just because people value the majors more doesn’t dispute the fact that TTY has been winning more that year than anyone else.

Some players are big tournament players and some shine with skills and consistency the whole year but lack the mental toughness or fighting spirit at the big occasions. Overall this year TTY has been the best WS player for me. Not winning the WC doesn‘t change that.

Let‘s imagine the following: A player from my club/association beats me every time during training and tournaments. But I beat him at a big tournament because he gets nervous or because I peaked just for that one day. Am I the better player?

 

I strongly disagree with your statement regarding Marin and LCW. LCW will go down as one of the greats, and as a tragic player in a sense because he had to compete with the best of all time, who beat him in 2 OG finals and I think 2 WC ones...? He has dominated the regular circuit for almost 7 years and been very successful for another 5 or so. Marin can't touch him yet.

 

Otoh nobody really remembers Ji Xinpeng or Chen Jin. At least I don't. Well, congrats, you had one strong tournament in your life....even though it was one of or even the biggest, that doesn't suddenly make you on eof the all-time greats when you've never done anything outside of that. They're not even in the discussion about that.
While I agree completely that I find TTY's decision to play the Universiade over the WC bonkers, I don't think you can simply say 1 OG/WC Gold > EVERYTHING else. It's a nuanced topic, and I would never say PVS was a better player than TTY at any point only because she played better in one tournament a year.
Personally I really hope TTY can do well at the WC in the coming years to avoid this becoming a blemish on her legacy.

 

You have to realize that for many SS, the top players skip many SS and don't treat it importantly. Compare this to the WC, where top players actually spend time training specifically to win the WC, and a title that top players covet (aside from LD, who won so many WC, he didn't really care back in 2013 and 2014).

I bet you LCW would trade 10 of his SS titles for one WC title.

 

I disagree with you. Carolina Marin has 2 WC and 1 OG. LCW has zero. Her legacy as a WS player is equivalent to LCW, in my opinion. Carolina Marin will go down as one of the best WS players. Everybody has their opinion, so this is mine.

 

I don't think 1 OG/WC > LCW's career. 3 of them = LCW career. And Carolina Marin has 2 WC + 1 OG so she has 3. Don't forget that Carolina Marin has also won many SS tournaments too. Yup, in my book, her legacy is equivalent to LCW's career. Carolina Marin will go down as one of the best WS players. But that's my opinion.

 

You don‘t even know how many times I‘ve read that last sentence on this forum...

Agreed, it‘s true that some peak at specific tournaments and play much better than they usually do. It all boils down to the question which player is better overall: The one who is at 95-99 % the whole year or the one that plays at 70 % the whole year except for one week where he‘s at 110 %. I think the former is the better in this scenario.

 

The WC and the Olympics are disproportially rated in the public eye in badminton. They are tournaments like any other and with the national quotas you can end up having much easier draws at the Olympics than at simple SS tournaments.

Gill referred to Okuhara as the "Olympic bronze medalist" for a full year (still does occasionally). She got beat in straight games by Sindhu in the quarters and then received a walkover from LXR - medal won. She has much better tournaments in her CV, but they are never referred to. This is silly in my opinion.

Same for TTY. She is without the fraction of a doubt the best WS player and has been for quite a while. The second game against HBJ yesterday - no woman has ever played this well. On the other hand Sindhu has secured her fourth medal yesterday and has a great chance to win the tournament, a stunning achievement for a 23 year old. Is she a better player than TTY? I don't think so, even though her exploits at the "big" tournaments outshine TTY's completely.

TTY needs to work on the balance between scoring winners and making unforced errors, because that's what cost her this title.