Why are the Women's doubles players not trying to win?

Discussion in 'Olympics LONDON 2012' started by Dr.Dino, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. V1lau

    V1lau Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Net Play and Counter Attack
    Location:
    West Coast
    No error my friend:D, it says "Evildoers according to OneTB" ... it's your delusion after all, so whatever you think is right, no?:confused::D:confused: Take your time reading, I am sure you will get it this time:rolleyes:
     
  2. sjoe

    sjoe Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2002
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    n/a
    If you think RR is the problem then all of you have forgetten about previous Olymp. I was Chen Jien vs Lin Dan in Semi in last Olymp, I am very sure you will use the same arguements? is all about concience and morality.
    Ask youself will you do it ?
     
  3. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,096
    Likes Received:
    14
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    New York, US
    Well, none of the system is perfect or bullet proof, as us human are too creative these days. However, the RR is definitely a much worse (more holes) to begin with. Sure, we can question CJ vs. LD from last OG, or some other matches. But this years 8 players involvement (or make it 10, as the JP pair is luckily not DQed, even though, proved should be) definitely because BWF choosed a much worse system to begin with.
     
  4. george@chongwei

    george@chongwei Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Messages:
    29,923
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    MIA
    Anyone have the video match between korea's ha/kim vs ina's pair ? Would like to have a look at it.. Surely it's not as disgusting as the other korean pair against the china pair match right?:(
     
  5. SibugiChai

    SibugiChai Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    4,332
    Likes Received:
    71
    Occupation:
    YAB
    Location:
    malaysia
    yuyang & wang xioli vs korean was a classic match... dont think any international game can replica this legendary game
     
  6. sshuang90

    sshuang90 Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2006
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    US
    It's not any better.
     
  7. bodminton

    bodminton Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Assistant Language Teacher - English
    Location:
    Japan
    No problem ;) yeah, even if they did claim to be "resting", they should still have won if they felt the opponents were easy enough to beat with "resting"...
     
  8. gundamzaku

    gundamzaku Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    2,554
    Likes Received:
    2
    Occupation:
    working professional
    Location:
    Santa Clara County, California, USA
    just saw clips of the match, it was excrutiatingly painful to watch knowing what they were trying to do.
     
  9. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    19,083
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    u.s.a.
    Well, with a few days left here in London, i heard the players who've been DQ'ed are now free to go and do sightseeing and most importantly shop til they drop..:eek: :p..(j/k)

    On a serious note:

    - The damage has been done. But indeed it's very good BWF made the decision to ban/DQ all 4 pairs/8 players. IMO, it was the right thing to do..Y'day at the stadium, after the announcement was made of the decision, another spectator overheard us and she asked abt and mentioned/agreed it was a good decision.
    At the same time, i also thought the decision was also made possibly because this is the Olympics (the whole world is watching) and definitely the IOC will be on BWF's tail if they don't do anything abt. With the reputation and the likelihood that badminton could be eliminated for good after the 2016 OG, should BWF not made their decision y'day, i would imagine IOC could definitely eliminate badminton as early as from the 2016 OG.
    On the other hand, I would imagine, if this was the AE, WC or any related BWF only tourney, BWF might've not gone the extra mile to ban/DQ all 4 pairs.

    - We shall see whether any similar stunt will come up again in the future; it will be up to entirely BWF to enforce it and the players/teams/coaches to follow thru.
    I do hope, from this experience, LYB and any other countries who'll try to do this kind of act again will not do so in the future. Let this be a learning lesson and experience..2008 Thomas Cup debacle (KOREAN TC team) should've taught everyone abt pulling similar stunt in the future..But i guess lesson not learnt.
    It is a truly embarrassing way to learn a lesson, but if it takes this moment to teach everyone a lesson, it is what it is.
     
    #349 ctjcad, Aug 2, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  10. vcrpex

    vcrpex Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    sales
    Location:
    tampines
    Agreed. I do acknowledged the players have gotten their deserved disqualification but many people fail to see that Olympic used to be a competition of the best of the best. Now each country can only send 2 or 3 of their best when they have a few more in the top ten rankings. Be it badminton or other sports, it does affect the rest. How bout just looking at the heats between some unseeded and the seeded players? can they be said to have not try their best yet still managed to win? is that what fans pay the tickets to see? So is the Olympic council trying to say, only groom 2 players for a sport per event per country? Those players who got the rankings, got it through their wins over the year that the point system for the Olympic started. What did the unseeded from various countries do to deserve a place to play in the Olympics when it was once the most coveted trophy? Talent is one thing, but the amount of hard work the top players put in. Can the unseeded players say they put in the same amount of time and effort to train? so much for a "fair" system? enough of my rant, I am sure there are alot more who think otherwise.
     
  11. flite

    flite Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2008
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    k.l
    Plain wrong. According to those CHN and LYB supporters out there concrete evidence and solid proof must be presented to prove one's guilt. As such one is innocent until proven guilty. (I guess i've learned);)

    so it should be:

    Do by all means = have the ability and chance, to do is a must = big time loser
    Can not do = never have such ability and chance, but acting like saint = innocent

    So, please, practice what you preach. Do not bend your principal whenever it suits you.
     
  12. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Messages:
    4,000
    Likes Received:
    13
    Occupation:
    computer
    Location:
    Sweden
    I don't really see a huge problem if countries are allowed to send only one team per country in the badminton team-events. This is already the case i team-events like basket, fotball, handball etc..
     
  13. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,096
    Likes Received:
    14
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    New York, US
    Fine, I give up on you. Continue to ride your high moral horse, and I do wish your daily action can back up your word. If you can influnce the far-less-than-perfect world with your high moral standard, I have nothing to say, but congrat on your achivement.

    But for now, let me just continue benting and twisiting in my ugly twisted world.
     
  14. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Messages:
    4,000
    Likes Received:
    13
    Occupation:
    computer
    Location:
    Sweden
    The female players that got DQed would have gotten much more respect from me if they had been "serious" about the loosing and just missed everything. What annoyed me is the godawful acting with shouting and high-five and stuff.. That is where their moral compass went totally wrong I think..

    They would have earned my respect if they made it clear that they did think format was bad and unfair, and made this just as much as a statment aboiut that, not messing about, just simply hit EVERYTHING in the net, and being honest about it.. Then they would have got my full respect.. The "oooh noo. I missed that one, I am so upset" acting was NOT the right thing to do, and the poor acting ticked me of more than the actual effort to loose.

    But honesly I saw more humor in it than a scandal..

    The real scandal is that they didn't implement the round robin and elimination rounds in a fair manner:

    1) Only one team per country allowed
    2) Group-placement due to draw/seeding
    3) group stage matches sceduled to take place simultaneosly.
    4) re-draw based on result for elimination round.. I aslo like the system employed in for example beach wolley where some 3rds and even 4th place finishers (due to lucky loosesr qualification) can get into the elimination draw.

    BWF are the real clowns here!!

    P.S. It would have been much more refreshing if the Chineese girls would have said.. Yes we did this because we wanted the chance of getting both gold and silver medals for our country, which possibility would have been denied if we won that gaem. And that the Koreans and Indonesian would have said.. Yes we did this simply to avoid having to play the strong chineese pair early in the elimination tournament, becuase we felt we would loose to them and that would destroy our hopes of medals.

    P.P.S. It would have been even better if the Japaneese girls stepped up and admitted that they threw the game against Taiwan, now, instead of in their memoirs in 20 years time as well.. For them to stand on the podium getting the silver medal leaves sort of a bad taste in the light of all the other disqualifications.
     
    #354 twobeer, Aug 2, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  15. gamelessx25

    gamelessx25 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Self Employed
    Location:
    Toronto
    Not trying your best =\= deliberately losing a game on purpose.

    As the TOP WOMEN's pair, they show no class and flipped the finger at the Olympics, every other team that tried their best, the fans that follow their progress and careers, and 4 years of their own hard training. Same on the other teams.

    If the Korean's had gone 100% they would of destroyed China 21-3 the way the Chinese were playing, but no the Koreans served into the net too to make it a farce. If they had gone 100%, don't think they would get DQed.

    Anyways, just watched Bruce Li play Japan WD pair and lost, good effort, they will face Russia for the Bronze Medal Match. Canada and Japan gave it their 100%, and they deserve to be where they are cause they're there in the true Olympic Spirit. I hope the Japanese kick China's ass in the finals!
     
  16. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,096
    Likes Received:
    14
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    New York, US
    All 8 tried their best when the game matters. They secured their spot in QF, which makes the last match has no meaing (qualification), rather than seeding. If the current format gives you the chance to "select" your seeding (again, i do not like or encourage it), why not?

    Can you tell me if Bolt or Phelps win every single heat, before taking the gold? Or say, you ask Phelps put on a meaningless heat (say, exhibition against whoever), do you think he will go all out?

    To make it more interesting, imagine Bolt or Phelps will take a RR format qualification, instead of the current format. If they are well into the final, you think they will not tank the very last heat to save energy?

    A better example is, last year's NBA playoff. Mem. Grizzles on purposely tanked the last few games, to be #8, to go against #1 spurs (knowing they have injuries issues at the last min. on Manu). Then, as they planned, they upset the spurs, and advanced. Did you see Grizzles got banned? No, instead, they got painted as the "smart strategiest" and "upcoming force"...
     
    #356 LazyBuddy, Aug 2, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  17. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Messages:
    4,000
    Likes Received:
    13
    Occupation:
    computer
    Location:
    Sweden
    I don't see that they flipped a finger at anyone for making the call that they get a better endgame if they finish second in the group.. I told my buddies that was over to watch the games before the WD started that "hey guys" lets look at this match this will be intreesting because i don't think the girls would like to win and destroy the medal-hopes for their country :)"

    The thing about the matches between the teams that actually got disqualified was that the result really only affected the teams themselves, the other throwdown that was discussed was worse imop as it actually affected which teams got trough to the elimination draw.


    I very much doubt that it would have been like 21-3.. If the koreanse led by lets say 11-2, then the Chineese could go all out up to 8-10, if possible, without risking to win, to make the game "look" competetive. So there is no need for them to throw down such oviosu, easy points if the oppnents are playng all out!!

    Who are you kidding? Japan was the first team to throw the game and would not have faced Canada in the semi if they had not thrown away their lead in group B.
     
    #357 twobeer, Aug 2, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  18. gamelessx25

    gamelessx25 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Self Employed
    Location:
    Toronto
    RE: Korea efforts - Fine, China has the ability to control the outcome, but both teams shot themselves in the foot by being poor actors. Case closed. Did they get what they deserved? There's a debate there still. But with the IOC pressure, it is what it is. Case closed on that matter.

    As for Japan throwing their game vs Taiwan, I didn't see that match, so I cannot argue. All I know is the Canadians won the 2nd game and freak them out tonight! You can hear the distress in their shouts to each other on the court when Michelle and Alex made a threatening shot that led to a winner.

    They flipped the finger, and you know it. They wanted to place 2nd, fine, the way they chose to accomplish that goal is an insult to everything they stand for as the elite of the sport.
     
  19. gamelessx25

    gamelessx25 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Self Employed
    Location:
    Toronto
  20. eaglehelang

    eaglehelang Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    12,310
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Example from another sport : Yeah, it's not OG sport, they were found guilty and it was called match fixing
    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/18022010/58/bowls-rocked-match-fixing-scandal.html
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-09-18/nz-bowls-team-in-match-fixing-scandal/1433756
    The only reason I even knew about this was because at that time a Msian player claimed she was ordered to lose by a high level official, she refused and mentioned this case.
    Not sure if there are other similar examples, ones that didnt involve bribing that is
     

Share This Page