Help with Stroke Please!!

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Mason, Mar 15, 2018.

  1. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    To help with whipping and pronation, I like to suggest a helpful tip.

    As you come into striking the shuttle, you should be leading with the **butt** of the racket. Just before strike, you should then rapidly pronate and tighten your grip to whip the racket head forward and downward. All this time making sure you tighten only the correct muscles in sequence so that you have a properly relaxed whip instead of a rigid stick. Start with half to 3/4 power first in order to get the right feel before going whole hog, otherwise you'll hurt yourself with wrong technique.

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
     
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Not necessarily. But it's difficult to correct a few things at the same time.

    Going back to smash and footwork, have a look at this video. It shows more clearly the steps backwards.

     
  3. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Whilst it is true that your forearm will be in a pronated position at contact if you use the correct grip, that is not the same as stating that you used pronation correctly during the stroke itself. Commonly, people that transition from panhandle to the correct grip leave their arm pronated for most of the stroke, and hence only draw power from the final movement of the arm extending and the wrist passing from extension back to neutral. However, this is very different to actually feeling the forearm turn in order to hit the shuttle cleanly.

    Lots of good advice for your so far from others - the way I like to feel my strokes is that the racket is an axe, and the front edge is the blade, the goal is to swing the axe blade at the shuttle, and twist the racket just before contact (once you have extended the arm). This feeling works well for forehand overheads and forehand drives, as well as many backhand strokes (including drives and overhead strokes), but is not quite right for hitting the shuttle in an extreme "round the head" hitting action.

    Good luck!
     
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  4. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    So i played last night and I have found that my follow through to the left side of my body is not currently a habit. As i looked at my stroke I was reverting back to following through to the left side of my body and my whole stroke being thrown off. Come Sunday ill have to focus some more on proper follow through as it seem to help my stroke out the most.
     
  5. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    I fear it might be the wrong idea to focus on it, because the follow through to the left side should not be forced, it should just happen when two requirements are met:
    • using pronation for your stroke (every overhead stroke, even a slow drop shot)
    • being relaxed after contacting the shuttle
    When getting this right (it sounds very simple, but some people never get it right), the follow through to the left will be the logical consequence, because relaxing after pronation will let the racket rebound. Maybe it might help to isolate the pronation part and practice it without the rest of the stroke and then try to fit it all together.
    Trying to focus on the follow through might stiffen you up even more, causing the opposite of what you want to achieve.

    Have a look at this video (again)...

    See how the racket pops up again? That's the rebound. It's passive. It's not an active movement. He does not pull it up, he just relaxes his forearm letting the racket force the arm to pronate as much as (anatomically) possible and then using it like a spring to pop up again. When you get this (the pronation and the rebound) right, you'll follow through to your left automatically when playing a regular overhead stroke.

    But always keep in mind to not try to change too many things at the same time. I think Cheung suggested to focus on the pronation at a later stage (correct me if I'm wrong), I don't remember every post I read here, I trust you to decide what to work on first. :)

    Good luck.
     
  6. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    I find when I don’t follow through properly and I focus on pronation I end up Not being relaxed enough. I also find that I transfer my weight even worse than I currently do
    I just need to get my mind used to a proper basic stroke
     
  7. Obito

    Obito Regular Member

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    You need to be smooth with your basic stroke first then start fixing little details to improve. Too much at a same time will ruin things. It takes time, but you will master it eventually.
     
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  8. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Well last night i focused again on proper follow through and It definitely helped a lot on my shots. I still have to focus on that for a few more weeks so it gets engrained as a habit. Here is around a minute of Clear practice followed by some of my shots for the night.
    The shots start around 1:05 mark
     
  9. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    To help that, you can easily practice the rebound at home, you don't even need a full swing for that, it's the same for a strong forehand drive that doesn't only rely on finger power.

    Then, I'd like to see more different shots and remember that even for a drop shot, you want to use the same movement, including pronation. Don't try to push the shuttle instead just because you need less power.

    Also, I think you have to be reminded of some things that were better before, for example
    • Reach up for the shuttle!
    • Lead with your hip, then your shoulder, then the elbow, ....
    Then, it's really important that you (start to) practice footwork pattern to get in position and to get many many repetitions of the scissor jump focusing and the leading hip and turning far enough, but not too far. As a rule of thumb, when landing, your front foot should be pointing in the direction you wanna go.

    This is too much to work on at the same time already, so I'll stop here, but I think you had to be reminded of these things again.

    I don't thinkI need to say anything positive, just have a look at your first videos again and see wear you already have achieved!
     
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  10. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Thank you for your suggestions. those things are definitely what ill be focusing on next. I think reaching up high will be easier for me to "remember" next time i play. My footwork is still a mess :(
     
  11. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Here’s two of my games from Sunday

     
  12. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    Please look at your second video and compare the two shots starting at 1:54. First one is a drop shot, second one is a smash. You try to push the drop, but you hit the smash. You can compare that to the other drop shots you played and it's the same. You need to also hit the drop shots, just more slowly. You need to also use pronation.

    If I were your coach, I'd work with you on improving your footwork, including the scissor jump (hip should be leading, not following the stroke). This is hard work and takes time, but it's necessary if you really want to improve and you can do a lot of it in your own.

    Please have a look here, though I'm not quite sure if I chose the best post to start with. Read the suggestions by Cheung and MSeeley carefully. Feel free to ask any questions. Just in case you don't know, this is the Rasmussen Footwork Drill.

    For you, I'd suggest to really simulate a stroke when doing the scissor jump and focusing on leading with the hip. You can even practice to jump upwards (landing in the same spot as before) and then adding a body rotation initiated with your hip only while being airborne. This way you'll learn what it feels like. When approaching the net, make it a habit to have your racket up at net height in front of you. One more principle:
    The racket(hand) has to reach the shuttle first, not the body, no matter if you're going forwards or backwards.
     
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  13. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    I really like your suggestions. Im am going to look at your links an re-read what you have hear and ill probably have some follow up questions. Thanks again!
     
  14. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Would a simple way for me to think about is is for me to start my swing much later that i currently do? Then that would force the hips to move first and then followed by my swing? Or am I not moving my hips enough all together?
     
  15. khoai

    khoai Regular Member

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    This is an exercise that may be helpful:

     
  16. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    I did a few reps of attempting to lead with my lower body but these do not look right. What’s the main issue here ?? Do any of these look right ? If so let me know which one so I can to mimick

    Also I feel like I can get more power and use of my lower body just doing a standing swing without “ jumping “ off my right leg. It’s almost like me trying to jump and transfer weight is worse then me just transfering right to left .... any thoughts
     
  17. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Looks OK to me

    Maybe looks a bit strange because you're in the garage.

    You have to reach higher so that means tilting your shoulders more. Right shoulder should tilt upwards

    Follow through still looks a bit long.
     
  18. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    -deleted-
     
    #198 visor, Nov 2, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  19. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Lat night i attempted to focus on using my lower body (hip movement). Here are my shots from warmups, doubles games and one singles game at the end. I really need to reach higher on my shots, i wonder if a good "cue" for me to think about is "elbow high"????
    anyways here it is.....

     
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  20. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    I thought the first few with the jump looked pretty good - reasonable contact height and position behind the shuttle, good jump, reasonable timing etc. Keep practising like that and improving and you will have a very fine overhead. If I were your coach, the main thing bugging me would be your grip - it just looks far too "panhandle" by several degrees. I know I'm a bit strange and prefer a basic grip, but your grip is rotated far too much for my liking. Changing the grip more will change the swing biomechanics and make a higher contact point possible.

    I won't harp on about it, but in my view the grip you are using is holding you back significantly in a situation where the rest of your swing is coming along quite nicely.

    Good luck!
     

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