True, she should have checked, but I suspect a human error by the service judge. To me, her serves look like she hits at around hip height. I'm referring to the first contact with the shuttle, I don't know how long it stays on the strings. This reminds me if the discussion about in or out, but in this case, the rule Actually says that is an instant when the shuttle is being hit. Can it be something else than the instant the shuttle touches the strings? The opinion around here seems to be that up to a player's height of around 190 cm, they would not have to change anything when they served below the lowest rib. Looking at the MS final yesterday (CTC is 1,80 m, NG Ka Long Angus is 181 cm), both were faulted several times. So... Is 115 cm the best height? How can we eliminate human errors? In my opinion, Hawk-Eye should be capable of analyzing where the shuttle is hit in real time (maybe with some adjustments), but I don't know. And changing the rule to use the point where the shuttle is hit and not the entire shuttle would be more consistent with other rules (in our out), but what would be easier for Hawk-Eye or any other technology to determine?
Question to all those who have followed the German Open more closely: Have you noticed any actual and significant changes in the serving motions of the players? From the few matches and replays I have watched, I haven't seen anything there. The only exception was that it seemed that service faults were called a lot more strictly that in the past - which I really liked. Not sure if the new rule with the optical assistance tool simply makes it easier to spot a service fault or if the service judges were instructed to call faults more strictly. All I've seen so far have been certain players to keep complaining, like Luise Heim (which in fact doesn't make sense at all if I think about it - at her height, if she has served correctly before, she will still be serving correctly with the new rule) and also Viktor Axelsen used a translated post from Lin Dan to continue his rampages against the 1.15m rule: Also here I don't really get the problem. Lin Dan is 1,78 m and also should in theory not really be affected by the change. EDIT: Oh, and in case someone in here understands the reference to tennis that LD is making in this statement, please feel free to explain it to me. Old and new service rule are as far away from Tennis as realistically possible.
If I measure 1.15m for me, I have some space to reach the maximum with 1.8m for my standard serve. About the German Open, the new rule was stated to the players and coaches just 2 weeks before the event. I also got the information from a female umpire, that the officials just got a crash course for the new rule. Observation from myself at the YGO was that the optical thing just work at a specific height for the service judges. I also have seen service judges who moved the optical things a bit to have more space for the legs or sit more comfy. This is a no-go. IMO they need to design a special and fixed chair with the optical things. Otherwise a mopper kid runs against it and it isn't accurate anymore. And here I'm totally with the players. In the hall I agree with some players, that we have seen many calls, which were not right from my perspective in the first rounds. I don't thing that the players don't complain about the new rule, they complain about the calls and I see there a faulty system.
Honestly the German Open showed the biggest flaws in the new experiment ruling. As pointed out by ucantseeme, the service judges were moving the devices out of their pre placed positions in the name of comfort and accessibility instead of questioning or just accepting the placements are there for a good reason. I was actually appalled at how Alfian kept getting faulted inconsistently despite no change in his service motion throughout the final. If I go by the new experimental rules. I can practically get away with serving like GMF. This I tried with a measuring tape. I can literally serve at the same height as my heart and I'm 167cm. They seriously need to train their umpires better for this ruling to be of any use. Otherwise its just going to be a frustration of more legal serves being called faults because of an improperly used metal pole with 2 plastic pieces and black lines. Sent from my LG-H930 using Tapatalk
I can only say ALfian serve is not higher than Kaneko serve despite him bending his knee. I mean if you want to fault a player then you should fault another player too. You cant fault a shorter player but then never faulting the taller players(due to sentiment) like Ivanov/Kolding just because they are tall because i bet, they serve more than 115cm 80% of time. How bend do you want this tall players to ..till what extend?
The giants in the sports now are the ones who will suffer the most for this ruling. However I do think it isn't impossible to comfortably serve from a very low position and be consistent. Probably the guys who are 2m and above who will truly have trouble. Sent from my LG-H930 using Tapatalk
Moving the poles should not affect the measurement reading. After all there are 2 panes of glass with 2 lines to line up to take care of perspective changes. The only thing is: is the service judge seat able to adjust up or down to allow judges of different heights to align their eyes with the lines on the glass? Did anyone see if the service judges adjust their seat before the games? @ucantseeme @s_mair
Actually from the games I watched, I noticed one major issue. Even with the fixed chair height. The service judges never leaned forward or made any significant movements to ensure that they're lining up the 2 lines on the 2 panels in order to enforce the rules properly. Sent from my LG-H930 using Tapatalk
"1.xxm" is a good rule, but bad if implemented by human. Even the breathing and heartbeating might cause slight fluctuation in height of the eyeballs of the service judge from the groound, which in turn creates an angle of elevation between the eyeballs and the two black lines.
There are two lines on the thick layer of plexiglas, so the judges must be at same height on the chair to make it work that the lines overlap. Especially Freek Cox, a tall man sat on the chair like taking a nap from a hard party.
Yes. I guessed that was how you used it. The problem is I noticed none do the service judges even bothering to adjust themselves physically to use it as such. Sent from my LG-H930 using Tapatalk
Exactly. Why does everybody forget about this? Still, it could be improved. Maybe add some other height markers next to the umpire's chair? Maybe not use two solid lines, but 3 thinner lines on the one side and 2 on the other side (to sit in the spaces between the three lines) to create the solid line only when you have the correct position? I think it would be a lot easier to detect when you are not in the correct position, because of the contrast between the light coming through a gap between two dark lines. @CantSmashThis Maybe we have some first hand experience? @phihag Did you already talk to some of the German umpires who were there? In the long run, the human mistake factor has to be eliminated though. Also, I'd like to quote myself... ... Because I think that the YGO have shown that 115 cm is too low for too many players. The chairs were not adjustable. However, you could see some service judges moving to have a good view through the plexiglass.
Imagine Kolding/Ivanov targetted because of extreme knee-bending services.. 1.15 m is too low. We need a clear, non-ambiguous service rule but this is not helping either.. Not to mention human error and bias that you can't eliminate yet
I think at the service point Kaneko is slightly lower than Alfian. Alfian raises it quite a lot right before service. I think the faults are quite likely correct calls. Moving the posts don't matter as long as the black lines line up. I don't believe Ch1k0 can serve chest height at 167cm. He either is not wearing shoes and/or talking about a little below 'lower chest'. There's a lot of people calling with major flaws but I have yet to see them. Any clear evidence with video?
in alfian's case, it's weird that he's only being faulted a lot in the final...he said he was only faulted once from the 1st round till the semifinal.
Yes, but only very briefly. The umpire had the impression that some players did not properly prepare for the new rule and were faulted a lot, but that the players that did advance learned to serve correctly even during the tournament. It was a new experience for the umpires too. I think we need a couple of tournaments to see how this rule works out once all players have played under it multiple times. I remember everybody being quite skeptical about the new 5x11 scoring system in the Bundesliga. After 3 or 4 matchdays, most players, but also the audience and the umpires got used to it, and now it's universally acclaimed.
Wow. I saw Li Junhui pic bending his knee while serving. Still, no matter what, that is definitely above 120cm.
I wanted to reply to you about the implementation problem.. But yeah; as already discussed by a lot of people here.. For a rule that is very controversial; I just hope BWF make it the implementation clearer. For everyone; including the umpires
