whose shot is it if I return serve flat and fast and they hit it high and straight?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by ralphz, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    You are talking about intentionally aiming there, anticipating a weak reply, but that's not what I am talking about.

    (in terms of aim, I aimed there but in the heat of the moment, there isn't a lot of time to respond returning a serve..and i've been training other things recently and am a bit rusty on return serve, but, not an ideal shot from me).

    In my first post, I said "It's not an ideal shot from me" and I said there "They do a shot that is I guess an attacking lift.. it's fast, they aren't struggling to do the lift"

    So that is not what you described. But given what I described,

    Do you still not agree with SSSS that it's my partner's?

    IMO it's not a great shot from them, doing an attacking lift when my partner is behind, and I agree with SSSS that it's for my partner.
     
    #21 ralphz, Oct 9, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Actually, SSSSNT had to put assumptions in which means it wasn’t understood ‘perfectly’.
     
    #22 Cheung, Oct 9, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
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  3. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    Totally agree, but that shot is not so easy when the service return is played with enough pace, especially from the backhand side. Also, since a flat cross court lift is very very dangerous, 2 can move in, (like I indicated by the arrow) to cover the cross court replies.

    Let's have a look. What did I write?
    That area clearly is inside the court. The angle really depend on the serve. From the position of 1, you can hit there with a very small angle, as a right handed person that even is your forehand side. Anything that goes further, you'd have to close the lines, because a straight drive would be too dangerous. Anything shorter would be soft enough to stay at the net, so I (roughly) chose the only area, where there might be a question about it. I stand with my answer for my level and above (with some exceptions I partly mentioned in my original reply). It's another assumption I had to put in your first post that your opponent's response is not severely limited by their skill. There's a lot of assumptions everyone has to make to answer your first post. It could have been a flick serve, a drive serve, .... I didn't know. Nobody could have known. If you don't realize that the scenario you were explaining was not clear in any way, I cannot help you.

    Please don't bother to reply to this, because I will not read it anyway.
     
  4. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    At risk of playing the pedantry game, if you care to take a ruler and draw a line between 'The Blue Circle With A White Number 1 In The Middle Of It' (now abbreviated as TBCWAWN1ITMOI for absolute clarity) and the far doubles corner you'll notice the shuttle @speCulatius drew passes right through the middle of it.

    So assuming TBCWAWN1ITMOI is where you contacted the shuttle rather that your foot position, which is easily inferred from:

    A fast, flat drive return landing in the opponents' rear corner box is easily feasible from a serve that is contacted at TBCWAWN1ITMOI, and I could understand from @speCulatius that he has drawn the shuttle at the contact point of the player noted as 'The Red Circle With A White Number 2 In The Middle Of It' (TRCWAWN2ITMOI)

    Therefore, the response of a 3rd shot line drive return down the tramlines being difficult to retrieve by either TBCWAWN1ITMOI or TBCWAWN2ITMOI* seems perfectly understandable.

    I would say a flat straight drive played from the T (to the left of TBCWAWN1ITMOI) described as:

    Is more or less indicated by @speCulatius diagram, especially with the consideration of the fact that you mentioned you'd like it to be wider and deeper, implying it would be a worse case if it were played straight.

    So we've decided the wider fast, flat return to the corner box is in fact worse than the straighter return.

    If I were to draw a new diagram, we might consider drawing the shuttle landing location in back tramlines, roughly in the middle of the halfcourt, but contacted funnily enough, in the area that has been coincidentally been shaded gray in @speCulatius diagram, almost like the depiction of the shuttle was drawn as a general idea of where the shuttle might be contacted within the grey area.

    In such a case, the player at TBCWAWN1ITMOI should definitely stay in front back orientation, but maybe lean back slightly, as a return is unlikely to be tight to the net - the player should expect a drive return. If the shuttle is lifted instead, then as discussed, either player can go for it, but crucially, if the front player goes for it (likely a 1 step backwards jump), they MUST be able to finish it and/or continue to cover the net as it's unlikely his partner will be able to rotate in to the front since he's in the way.

    *
    If you can't figure out what this is even if I haven't written it out fully prior, as per good written English rules, then maybe I should just give up and call it something like "blue number 2"...I dunno?

    If you haven't caught the sarcasm yet, this post is dripping with it. We aren't on a professional forum/workplace, so there is no particular need for extremely formal/correct English - as long as the English is understandable and does not lead to confusion by a reader who a court might deem 'a reasonable person', then it's good enough. You don't need to wear a tuxedo/black tie suit to visit the beach - that doesn't mean you can't do, but you shouldn't be correcting others for turning up in swimwear. Appropriate dress and appropriate language should match the environment, and BadmintonCentral is a relatively informal environment.
     
    #24 DarkHiatus, Oct 10, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
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  5. Ouchie

    Ouchie Regular Member

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    #TBCWAWN1ITMOI is trending on twitter :D
    So is #sarcasm and #bluenumber2

    P.S. everybody wears a tux to the beach where I live. We also shoot peasants for sport on the second Tuesday of each month.
     
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  6. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I hope that's pheasants and not peasants!
     
  7. Ouchie

    Ouchie Regular Member

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    Nope. Pheasants are Thursdays.
    I recently moved and this area feels like living in a time bubble frozen in the 1800's.
     
  8. Cesium

    Cesium Regular Member

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    It's your partners shot. You are basically asking if you should play front & back VS side by side. Correct formation is front & back
     
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  9. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    I agree.. I can't see how it can be anything else.
     

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