Zhao Jian Hua's technical analysis of Asian Games MS Final

Eddy Choong's article from Ooi Lay Beng's "The Way of the champions"

Bbn said:
I reproduce again 3 pages of Eddy Choong's article form Ooi Lay Beng's "The Way of the champions".

As usual there will be comments like past is past etc, so make up your own minds.
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Thanks for the 3 pages of Eddy Choong's article from Ooi Lay Beng's "The Way of the champions".

I agree with Eddy's explanation on how an athlete should pace oneself against one's opponent. However, one needs to know, beforehand, what one's opponent can and cannot do.

Regarding the 2010 Asian Games Final match between LCW and LD, I believe that instruction was given to LCW to tire out LD. LD was believed to be not as fit as LCW.

However, it was back-fired. LD was fitter (stamina-wise) than LCW. In their 3rd game, it was clearly witnessed that LCW was getting tired, while LD wasn't.
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Anyway after you watching the match, did u feel that LD purposely let go in 2nd set (esp. the end of 2nd set).

LD knew LCW will get worn out in 3rd set given that LCW had played so hard in semi-final match. And LD net deceptive shot and press skill while in front of the net play had torn up LCW in terms of stamina and confident. That`s why LCW unable to retrieve the shot and force LD in passive mode.

In terms of a game controlling I would suggest LCW to steal some tips from TAufik Hidayat. (Alth TH is getting older but LD some time still finding hard to beat him)

chris-ccc said:
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Thanks for the 3 pages of Eddy Choong's article from Ooi Lay Beng's "The Way of the champions".

I agree with Eddy's explanation on how an athlete should pace oneself against one's opponent. However, one needs to know, beforehand, what one's opponent can and cannot do.

Regarding the 2010 Asian Games Final match between LCW and LD, I believe that instruction was given to LCW to tire out LD. LD was believed to be not as fit as LCW.

However, it was back-fired. LD was fitter (stamina-wise) than LCW. In their 3rd game, it was clearly witnessed that LCW was getting tired, while LD wasn't.
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LD knew that LCW was more tired than him after the Semi-Finals matches

wisdomcivet said:
Anyway after you watching the match, did u feel that LD purposely let go in 2nd set (esp. the end of 2nd set).

LD knew LCW will get worn out in 3rd set given that LCW had played so hard in semi-final match. And LD net deceptive shot and press skill while in front of the net play had torn up LCW in terms of stamina and confident. That`s why LCW unable to retrieve the shot and force LD in passive mode.

In terms of a game controlling I would suggest LCW to steal some tips from TAufik Hidayat. (Alth TH is getting older but LD some time still finding hard to beat him)
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Agree.

LD knew that LCW was more tired than him after the Semi-Finals matches, To be sure of victory, LD allowed LCW to win Game 2.

At the first half of Game 3, LD surged with such a BIG lead, making sure that LCW would not be able to catch up.
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But what to do.. All up to LCW to raise his game higher and higher and wishing MAS to raise more young killer (I prefer to said) soon..At least it will lessen his burden (pity our dato each time he have to fight alone)

chris-ccc said:
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Agree.

LD knew that LCW was more tired than him after the Semi-Finals matches, To be sure of victory, LD allowed LCW to win Game 2.

At the first half of Game 3, LD surged with such a BIG lead, making sure that LCW would not be able to catch up.
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Few things are still baffling :

1) Why TXH is still needed, at this age many people would be senile.I'm sure at courtside he is more than morale booster.
Why Xia Xuan Xe is not able to completely take over, perhaps all this sports science stuff still require judgment from a trained eye.
2) How TXH managed to remain at the top till he was 35-37 years old, and how LD can still continue when his predecessors like Zhao and Yang Yang
or Sun Jun were already uncles at that age.Maybe its related to some kind of new technology.

i think its time to stop barking up the tree in terms of Msia badminton,there are obvious limitations as stated very clearly in other threads,
one just have to read thru related threads from the top to see them.

Basically in the last few years there have been calls from a large section of the msia public to distrust foreigners and invest more on local talent

and develop a certain local brand.Probably it was desirable to have players and managers more representative of the population,so that more

government funding can be justified and more local sponsors (who pull the money strings) can be involved.

This way I think administrators and players are happy as hopefully their incomes would be more secure (theoretically).
 
wisdomcivet said:
But what to do.. All up to LCW to raise his game higher and higher and wishing MAS to raise more young killer (I prefer to said) soon..At least it will lessen his burden (pity our dato each time he have to fight alone)
Click to expand...

Hope Wisdom would make all this comments about the state of Msia badminton in other related threads.Let's keep this thread technical

and leave out non-technical matters or other matters (too sensitive to discuss on this global site), otherwise it will end up to another

us vs them or MU vs Liverpool argument or "sap hei" tussle.
 
Bbn said:
Few things are still baffling :

1) Why TXH is still needed, at this age many people would be senile.I'm sure at courtside he is more than morale booster.
Why Xia Xuan Xe is not able to completely take over, perhaps all this sports science stuff still require judgment from a trained eye.
2) How TXH managed to remain at the top till he was 35-37 years old, and how LD can still continue when his predecessors like Zhao and Yang Yang
or Sun Jun were already uncles at that age.Maybe its related to some kind of new technology.

i think its time to stop barking up the tree in terms of Msia badminton,there are obvious limitations as stated very clearly in other threads,
one just have to read thru related threads from the top to see them.

Basically in the last few years there have been calls from a large section of the msia public to distrust foreigners and invest more on local talent

and develop a certain local brand.Probably it was desirable to have players and managers more representative of the population,so that more

government funding can be justified and more local sponsors (who pull the money strings) can be involved.

This way I think administrators and players are happy as hopefully their incomes would be more secure (theoretically).
Click to expand...

I'm going to leave out the second part of your post as it is, ummm, "non-technical" in nature. :D However, in response to the first 2 points you make....

1. It is the way of the orient to give respect to the wisdom that comes with age and experience. TXH obviously brings an indefinable "presence" to the courtside, and creates his own "vibes." More to the point, he probably contributes with tactical recommendations. Xia Xuanze is still probably in the role of "understudy" until the management think it's all right to allow him to call the shots, coaching-wise. Also, they need to keep TXH with them, just in case he is lured away by the opposition...

2. TXH played in a different era where life was different and more easy-paced, and the stresses were nowhere near what they are now; also the game itself was relatively more suited to longer participation at the top levels, because technology and other aspects did not make for an ultra-competitive environment. LD has been able to continue with relatively no injury because he has been very careful, and he has been backed up and very well managed by his team of coaches and managers: no over-exposure, careful management of the calendar etc. He has been used in the past 2-3 years primarily as the shock-and-awe weapon. How long he will last now, is another matter.
 
haha then Malaysia badminton team will end up like Proton, have our own local brand but quality wise you know la...:D

cobalt said:
I'm going to leave out the second part of your post as it is, ummm, "non-technical" in nature. :D However, in response to the first 2 points you make....

1. It is the way of the orient to give respect to the wisdom that comes with age and experience. TXH obviously brings an indefinable "presence" to the courtside, and creates his own "vibes." More to the point, he probably contributes with tactical recommendations. Xia Xuanze is still probably in the role of "understudy" until the management think it's all right to allow him to call the shots, coaching-wise. Also, they need to keep TXH with them, just in case he is lured away by the opposition...

2. TXH played in a different era where life was different and more easy-paced, and the stresses were nowhere near what they are now; also the game itself was relatively more suited to longer participation at the top levels, because technology and other aspects did not make for an ultra-competitive environment. LD has been able to continue with relatively no injury because he has been very careful, and he has been backed up and very well managed by his team of coaches and managers: no over-exposure, careful management of the calendar etc. He has been used in the past 2-3 years primarily as the shock-and-awe weapon. How long he will last now, is another matter.
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wisdomcivet said:
haha then Malaysia badminton team will end up like Proton, have our own local brand but quality wise you know la...:D
Click to expand...

Well the word quality to manufacturers actually means "consistent standard".Eg.McDonald's, the same burger everywhere in the world.

Value for money, you get what you pay for.

McDonald's, Wendy's , Burger King are all quality burgers but they have different values and you pay for the additional value.

Ramly burger can also be a quality burger, as long as there is no law putting a higher tax on its competitors, it is fair value.

Anyway back to topic?
 
Hahaha ya value for money is what i mean...

Personal I still prefer McDOnald other than Burger King...hehee

Bbn said:
Well the word quality to manufacturers actually means "consistent standard".Eg.McDonald's, the same burger everywhere in the world.

Value for money, you get what you pay for.

McDonald's, Wendy's , Burger King are all quality burgers but they have different values and you pay for the additional value.

Ramly burger can also be a quality burger, as long as there is no law putting a higher tax on its competitors, it is fair value.

Anyway back to topic?
Click to expand...
 
I think a good analogy would be :

1) LCW is like a Volkswagen or Toyota Camry or Honda Accord,its everything you would expect from a car and it is very reliable and will seldom let you down.

2) LD however is like one of those Italian performance cars, must always be kept in tip tp condition, will outrun anything if on song,
difficult to maintain and sometimes, if neglected may stall.

They are both quality cars or players but one is able to take performance to dizzying heights when it matters most.
 
Well, the title of this thread quickly gave way to a more interesting discussion, but I watched the match with Zhao Jian Hua's running commentary for those who are still interested. The article does a good job of summarising his comments, so really there isn't much to add. In the game though, he repeatedly emphasised that LD was the better player by virtue of his ability to dictate the game's rhythm, and, to a much lesser extent, his slightly stronger attack.

To those who said that LD did not look tired, well, I doubt that's possible. ZJH said that both players would/should be absolutely knackered by the 3rd game (at one point he said the match resembled a women's singles match because of the relative tame-ness :D) but LD was able to prevail because he was controlling the rhythm, and therefore, could slacken the pace whenever he was tired and suddenly inject pace once he had recovered sufficiently to do so or sensed an opportunity.

Conversely, LCW chose not to, or was unable to, lead the game whenever he had the chance to do so, and thus was unable to react adequately to the changing conditions of the game, made more mistakes, and missed a few good opportunities.

Finally, he thought that LCW would have a much better chance at victory were it not for the big gap at the beginning of the 3rd game, and this he attributed to LD's good grasp of the match's situation and the understanding of the importance of injecting pace early to get a quick lead. Once LD had a 9-10 points lead, ZJH all but wrote off LCW's chances of victory, saying that a lead of 5-6 points could still have left the game wide open, but 10 points was just too much.

Well, all I've included are his random comments about the match. All tactical and strategic analysis have already been summarised in the article. All in all, pretty logical, pretty sensible, and I can see no reason to disagree to any of it.
 
Thanks for the summary ,Molex which just about brings this topic to an end.

I watched again LD's match against LCW and PSH and just wonder, has LD taken the game to a new speed level?

Did anyone time the speed and comparing LD now and previously he definitly looks more relaxed and efficient in stoke execution.

I wonder if his recent performance will set the trend in coming months just like Zhao Jian Hua did in 1985.

i could have sworn LD was actually playing Men's doubles without a partner and most of the strokes were doubles strokes

and looked more like Cai Yun rather than the old LD.one other reason why he is fast is probably his anticipation,

he must have studied LCW and PSH and could read very well their moves,just as LCW read Chen Jin.

Now that LD has delivered his promise to take the game to greter heights I wonder what's in store, rival coaches will put on their

thinking caps as in the past and start coming up with new ideas how to combat or keep up with this trend.
 
I think what many players comment about LCW is correct, his game still tends to be defensive and mostly reactive.

I'm sure this is because of the psche and culture of people he learns badminton from, Malaysian singles play in recent years

tends to be defensive and counter attacking starting from Foo Kok Keong ,Ong Ewe Hock, a little different with Wong Choon Han and Yong Hock Kin,

and recently LCW,Hafiz and Roslin tend to be mainly defensive, very much guerilla warfare and tactic of "ambushing" opponents.

its like comparing aggressive Karate or Tae Kwan Do against Silat.

That is not necessarily a bad thing as LCW has maintained his ranking and able to beat Chen Jin,but one wonders if this sort of training regime and psyche and approach

will still be effective.I suspect the training may need to focus on different aspects of fitness. Perhaps as discussed here there is a need to train players to be able to force the pace and take the initiative rather than waiting

for an opportunity, easier said than done of course! Perhaps that is also what the rivals already know very well.
 
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